Need to rework and improve my home WiFi

[FLJeepGuy]

I had the luxury of fully wiring my new home when it was being built about a year ago. I've also upgraded my network infrastructure with a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite and a HP Procurve switch, both of which are handling all the wired traffic without issue.

On the other hand, my WiFi infrastructure is cobbled together using old routers and an inexpensive ASUS access point, and quite frankly I'm not happy with how it's performing. I have a few nagging issues that I'd like to overcome:

• Need two access points for full coverage of my home.
• Avoid hand-off issues when moving around my home.
• Reduce maintenance and configuration time.

Due to the layout of my home, I have an old WRT54G running DD-WRT (2.4ghz) plus an ASUS EA-N66 access point (5ghz) in my office at the front of the home. My office closet is where my network equipment rack is installed and all of the home wiring is terminated. I also have a Netgear WNDR3700 in my entertainment center at the rear opposite corner of my home. Neither of these locations provide full coverage on their own, hence me running multiple access points.

Initially, I set them up all with the same SSIDs and used inSSIDer to insure they were all on non-overlapping channels. This worked for the most part, but mobile devices had issues with handoff and many times wanted to stay connected to a single access point even when the signal had degraded to an unusable level. I then set them up with different SSIDs, but I still have to manually switch networks when moving around the house. For me, I can live with it, but it's driving my family crazy, and I'm tired of the "Dad, the wireless isn't working again" complaints.

A diagram of my existing network is available at the following link:
http://www.gliffy.com/go/publish/image/4517042/L.png

So, my plans are to centrally mount a business class access point and eliminate the cobbled together group of devices. I'm looking at the Ubiquiti UniFi offerings, specifically the UAP-PRO or UAP AC. I'd like some feedback on the UniFi access points and any other suggestions.

 

[thiggins]

Reliable roaming among access points has been discussed many times here. Bottom line is that it is highly dependent on device drivers. Some devices are smart about roaming. Others are very "sticky" and will stay associated to the first AP they see until the signal drops. Sounds like you have the latter.

Business class APs may not help. They may have features to limit the # off connected clients, but not to help smoother roaming.

I would not rule out using consumer routers as APs. A couple of AC1750 or AC1900 class routers properly placed could improve coverage and performance, even for non AC devices.
Does An AC Router Improve N Device Performance?

 

[AdvHomeServer]

I don't know how the ubiquiti access points work, other than they need wired POE connections.

I'm wondering about how many channels they will use and the broadcast power. You might become unpopular with your neighbors if you're taking channels 1,6,11 and giving them interference in return. From what I've read, using double wide 2.4GHz is said to make you unpopular with close neighbors. I've taken the chance, but turned the power on my dd-WRT routers to 50 mW.

I'd like to read about some practical experience here.

 

[FLJeepGuy]

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately, work has been very busy and I'm just now getting back to this.

thiggins,

One of the biggest issues I have with my home is that the bedrooms and my office are all spread around the perimeter of the house with the guest bathroom, kitchen, and dining area in the middle. The family room is also at the rear corner of the house. Since I really want to get away from the multiple access points and existing consumer routers I already have in place, I need to centrally locate an AP.

I do have a central hallway where the doorbell and home alarm speaker are mounted, and I could easily wall mount the Ubiquiti (or similar style device) using POE to power it. I know I could wall mount a consumer router there, but standard power is a problem, as is the "look" of the routers. I can't have one of those on the wall in my central hallway. So, there is no good place to mount a consumer router centrally that will provide coverage throughout the house.

AdvHomeServer,

Luckily, my home is located on a nearly an acre size lot as are the homes around me. Channel interference is not really an issue and if I do go to a central AP, I can work with my neighbors to insure we're all on separate channels as much as possible. I'm already the tech support guy for both of them.


So, I'm still looking for suggestions and advice. My revised main criteria are:

• A single AP to eliminate roaming and eliminate the multiple APs I currently maintain.
• Must not be an eyesore if mounted out in the open.
• POE preferably as my central locations don't have easy access to power.

 

[fistv]

What about mounting a good router on the wall and covering it with a picture or other artwork ? Cut a square in the ceiling, recess a box, mount router or AP in there and cover with cotton or other thin material, cotton should let it breathe, you could also recess it in a wall as well. Just thinking of other ways to disguise it for aesthetics.

 

[azazel1024]

What about mounting a good router on the wall and covering it with a picture or other artwork ? Cut a square in the ceiling, recess a box, mount router or AP in there and cover with cotton or other thin material, cotton should let it breathe, you could also recess it in a wall as well. Just thinking of other ways to disguise it for aesthetics.

You can also pull the guts of the router out and put it in something else.

I've seen wall and desk clock conversions (functional or not) where a router guts were slapped in the casing. Either with or without the antennas sticking out.

 

[fistv]

You can also pull the guts of the router out and put it in something else.

I've seen wall and desk clock conversions (functional or not) where a router guts were slapped in the casing. Either with or without the antennas sticking out.

Interesting idea, I've built PC's in Desktop humidors and those big remote controlled cars. I always keep my networking stuff out of sight so I have not given that much thought.

 

[azazel1024]

Interesting idea, I've built PC's in Desktop humidors and those big remote controlled cars. I always keep my networking stuff out of sight so I have not given that much thought.

Yeah my wife wants stuff a little more discrete. So I've been looking at putting the guts of one of my WDR3600 in to a mid century clock/alarm clock so it can just sit out on a desk. Downside is the 7dBi rubber ducks. No real way to disguise those, but she claims she might be okay with that.

Other option, which I REALLY want to do try, is a Nixie clock kit and throw the router guts in with that. That would likely look less odd with some big old antennas sticking up behind it.

 

[fistv]

Yeah my wife wants stuff a little more discrete. So I've been looking at putting the guts of one of my WDR3600 in to a mid century clock/alarm clock so it can just sit out on a desk. Downside is the 7dBi rubber ducks. No real way to disguise those, but she claims she might be okay with that.

Other option, which I REALLY want to do try, is a Nixie clock kit and throw the router guts in with that. That would likely look less odd with some big old antennas sticking up behind it.

I remember those tubes, we had them in the frequency generators for our specom keyers on the subs.

 

[gotcha640]

The framed art gets my vote. Also, in my one story house, I have a 20A circuit just for lights and outlets in the attic. That would more than feed a couple access points.

Regarding the handoff, android has several wifi manager apps that support jumping when signal strength drops. Not sure if ios has this. Linux does. I had great success with this in a three story, 5000 square foot house, but I expect you will always get a stutter if you're in the middle of a streaming video. I would not suggest jumping networks while on a Skype interview. That may be a question of managing expectations.

 

[stevech]

I would not suggest jumping networks while on a Skype interview. That may be a question of managing expectations.

Nit: You said 'jumping networks'; I think you meant associating to a different access point, same network. Fast handoff to preserve QoS is done in costly pro systems, but I've not heard of it in consumer-priced equipment. "Fast" means less than 100mSec to me, so the streaming buffer wouldn't get to a low watermark and "stutter".

 

[gotcha640]

Yes, I expected OP, and I, mean moving from AP to AP (or in my case, AP to combo modem/router).

 

[azazel1024]

Yeah, without fast hand-off, depending on the router/AP and client disassociation and reassociation with the new access point takes between 600 and 1300ms (based on research and empirical testing). In general with streaming video and music there is enough of a buffer that there is no stutter or other impact. With webpage loads generally you'll get a brief pause/slow down during a page load if you roam between access points. With file transfers, you'll generally see a pause for a second or two and then it'll resume (or windows or whatever will show transfer speed plummet towards zero for a couple of seconds and then jump back up).

Things like VOIP and video chat however don't buffer and a lot of the applications are not reconnect tolerant (or whatever you want to call them). If they lose the connection for pretty much any sizeable length of time, its simply disconnected. There is no auto-retry in things like facetime/skype to the best of my knowledge and testing. Which is frankly pretty stupid of the application developers as multiple access point homes, small business, etc. are not THAT rare, even if they are not in the majority.

The connection "freezing" for a second or two before resuming would obviously be annoying, but a lot less annoying than having to manually reconnect.

802.11 has fast roaming specifications, 802.11r and a number of clients support 802.11r. The problem is, I am not aware of any client routers/access points that currently implement 802.11r, even though it is ammendment 802.11r-2008, as in it has been around for the last 6 years!

My hope is as wifi calling starts becoming a more common thing, that 802.11r really becomes a true standard for devices (with 802.11r the disassociate/reassociate process is cut back massively to around a few tens of miliseconds and is effectively transparent to anything except the OS level. It is too fast for applications to realize they don't have connectivity)

Currently enterprise level gear that implements fast roaming does it on the access point/base station side with proprietary methods to force a client from one access point to another seamlessly. It works great, but it is up to the router/AP to implement and is proprietary. 802.11r is still totally up to the client to change association, but it is also extremely fast and transparent.

PS the disassociate/reassociate process is even more painful in "high security" situations where 802.11x/RADIUS is implemented as you have to renegotiate the authentication with the RADIUS server. This process can take several seconds (2-5s) depending on the authentication environment when switching APs without fast roaming.

No, open Wifi doesn't really speed things up much as the current overhead is more associated with things like WMM and other additions to 802.11 over the years that causes significant message traffic between the client and basestation before association can complete.

 

[rtfm]

I don't know how the ubiquiti access points work, other than they need wired POE connections.

.....

I'd like to read about some practical experience here.

Meetoo; I'm hoping to learn from those ahead of me. It seems essential given Ubiq's sales model of "jump first....look for water later...."

 

[htismaqe]

Things like VOIP and video chat however don't buffer and a lot of the applications are not reconnect tolerant (or whatever you want to call them). If they lose the connection for pretty much any sizeable length of time, its simply disconnected. There is no auto-retry in things like facetime/skype to the best of my knowledge and testing. Which is frankly pretty stupid of the application developers as multiple access point homes, small business, etc. are not THAT rare, even if they are not in the majority.

RDP streams (being UDP) don't buffer. Packets lost are just that - packets lost.

However, most signaling protocols nowadays ARE pretty tolerant actually. I use Cisco IPC all day every day. I've rebooted my router before, which causes about 20 seconds of solid packet loss followed by having to reconnect the wireless SSID on my PC. Yes, it produces 30 seconds of silence on a call but the call doesn't disconnect. As soon as packets start passing again, the call starts working again.

It really depends on how the application in question is bound to the adapter, I think.

 

[azazel1024]

Sounding more and more like an Apple issue with Facetime then. I have experience a similar thing with Skype though.

That said, I know with RDP if it loses the connection for more than a few seconds, it'll terminate. That said, it DOES retry if it loses the connection for more than a couple of seconds (though I've found sometimes it is faster to close the session and restart than to automatically let it retry).

 

[htismaqe]

(though I've found sometimes it is faster to close the session and restart than to automatically let it retry).

This is often true of many applications, streaming or not. They don't like to be interrupted.