NETGEAR Joins the AC1900 Club

[NightOwl326]

I eventually will get the AC68U as I have had bad experiences with Netgear and Belkin products. Netgear is just horrible.

10-4. Netgear always has some feature or enhancement they are always going to offer, but never makes it to a firmware update. What happens with Netgear is they move on to the next product, and leave the last product wanting. Asus releases more updates faster and more often, and Netgear always leaves the last product in the dust. I have never been happier since I moved to Asus/Merlin.

 

[sm00thpapa]

My cousin is a Netgear fanboy. In his eyes they are the best routers. He picked up a R6300 a few months ago. I told him AC1900 was in the works and he still bought it. I know of a few R6300 purchasers that stated it burnt out after a year. Just wish I had the money for the AC68U. My mouth is watering.

 

[NightOwl326]

I understand your pain. Damn Merlin made this whole wireless routing thing fun again, and I had to tell my wife I am getting a rt-ac68u and thats all there is to it. Wonder how many Asus fans Merlin made out of us? Bet money after all the testing is done, Asus still comes out on top. God help those Netgear and Belkin buyers that are hoping for the best. And you are correct, Netgear products seem to have a limited lifespan, and my rt-n66u is still as good as the day I purchased it. My Netgear 3700 died at 1.3 years. Good hardware, quick firmware releases, and Merlin magic is all I need to know to lay out 200 plus dollars. Netgear firmware support suuuucccccckkkkkssssss. And their phone support sucks even worse. "Hi my name is Reymond, not really since I reside in India, but I have chosen a name I feel an American can relate to, how can I help you? Now let me take you through basic trouble shooting that no way relates to your problem. Hi my name is Reymond".

 

[Razor512]

They need to come out with a router that runs a Core i7-4960X and has 32GB of RAM.

That should completely get rid of the CPU bottleneck when it comes to providing gigabit ethernet and 802.11ac

 

[whsbuss]

I eventually will get the AC68U as I have had bad experiences with Netgear and Belkin products. Netgear is just horrible.

Totally agree. My R6300 after almost a year is dropping LAN traffic all day. Never again.

 

[thiggins]

Typo in your article BTW, you wrote "The R7000 joins ASUS' RT-N68U..."

thanks. Fixed.

 

[thiggins]

Totally agree. My R6300 after almost a year is dropping LAN traffic all day. Never again.

Under what kind of load? Wired or wireless traffic?

 

[thiggins]

I take it when all these AC1900 routers launch the Dark Knight will be dead.

Why? AC1900 is primarily a marketing ploy by Broadcom to lock buyers into its platform. They are trying to do to QCA what Atheros did to them when they introduced Super G back in the day.

The biggest practical benefit these products may provide is much faster file sharing. Worth spending $200 for?

 

[Razor512]

Anyone know if these more modern router CPU's can still be overclocked?

eg taking the CPU from 1GHz, to 1.2GHz or something.

(it helped back in the days of the wrt54gl, overclocking it improved WAN to LAN and LAN to WAN performance, as well as the performance of some of the more interesting features such as QOS in tomato, or the torrent client when you did the SD card mod, and the VPN server)

 

[Squuiid]

Why? AC1900 is primarily a marketing ploy by Broadcom to lock buyers into its platform. They are trying to do to QCA what Atheros did to them when they introduced Super G back in the day.

The biggest practical benefit these products may provide is much faster file sharing. Worth spending $200 for?

Tim, any chance of a review of the R7000? Maybe even a shootout between the ASUS RT-AC68U?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be thankful for this

 

[thiggins]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be thankful for this

I have both in the lab now and can't get either to link at 600 Mbps in 2.4 GHz.

What is so exciting about a router whose main justification for its high price is a feature you can't use unless you buy two?

 

[Razor512]

Are there any wifi adapters (that are not routers) that actually support 256QAM on 2.4GHz?

PS I wish netgear could get rid of that 20/40 MHz Coexistence crap that only serves to reduce performance.

Instead it should be up to the user to select from a list which mode the wifi radio should run in.

Even in noisy environments, having the router work in N450 mode (N600 for the r7000) still offers a performance boost, especially in smaller homes.

eg for me there are around 150 access points in range spread across channels 1-11

With my wndr4700 forced to n450 mode Auto ( 6(P)+10(S) )

My throughput nearly doubles.

I am likely going to put off getting the r6300 and go purchase the r7000 for when I am fully ready to move into decent 802.11ac performance.

 

[PrivateJoker]

Are there any wifi adapters (that are not routers) that actually support 256QAM on 2.4GHz?

Not that I've seen. I think it behooves the performance image of your product line to wring out your throughput where it's a little easier to get, on the 5ghz band.

I'm curious if the Netgear 256QAM & Asus TurboQAM are interoperable. They are both Broadcom hardware but maybe the signal modulation is something that the OEs themselves tinker with.

But like I mentioned awhile back and Tim brought up in this thread, much like Atheros SuperG 108, the end user benefits are limited if this isn't baked into the chips device makers actually put in client devices. I actually have a SuperG access point, total # of wifi devices I've had since I purchased it that can connect to it higher than 54Mb/s G speeds = 0 (out of literally a hundred or more).

PS I wish netgear could get rid of that 20/40 MHz Coexistence crap that only serves to reduce performance.

Instead it should be up to the user to select from a list which mode the wifi radio should run in.

Don't expect that crap to go away soon, it's part of the official 802.11n spec.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/31743-bye-bye-40-mhz-mode-in-24-ghz-part-1

eg for me there are around 150 access points in range spread across channels 1-11

With my wndr4700 forced to n450 mode Auto ( 6(P)+10(S) )

My throughput nearly doubles.

The link speed indication the AP or client shows nearly doubles or the throughput you can measure over repeated WLAN to LAN file transfer doubles? If you literally have 150 active APs in your environment your AP should not be able to take almost 2/3rd of the 2.4ghz band and use it in an advantageous way.

What dual stream 2.4ghz wifi clients do you have that are realizing this double throughput that don't have 5ghz in them as well? In a client with 3 stream 5ghz 802.11n connectivity I can usually get performance that meets or beats 2.4ghz single stream at even pretty significant distances.

 

[thiggins]

Are there any wifi adapters (that are not routers) that actually support 256QAM on 2.4GHz?

One. The ASUS PCE-AC68. There are a few smartphones with Broadcom AC radios supporting both bands. But they are 1x1.
Right now, I can't get the PCE-AC68U to show link rates above 450 Mbps with either the RT-AC68U or R7000.

PS I wish netgear could get rid of that 20/40 MHz Coexistence crap that only serves to reduce performance.

That "crap" is an 802.11 spec requirement.

 

[Razor512]

Well double may be an exaggeration but it does offer a decent performance boost

Here it is when the 20/40 MHz Coexistence is on
http://i.imgur.com/vLe64GZ.jpg

and here it is when it is turned off

http://i.imgur.com/8ceDUom.jpg

using the KillerN-1103 wifi adapter

the wifi still sucks but it is better when it is not in the 20/40 MHz 802.11 spec trollface mode. (router companies way of saying " It seems that you don't like waiting very long to backup data to your NAS, well, here at (insert router company name), we believe that patience is a virtue, so we created a mode that will allow us to share that feeling with you!"... " also check out our new line of cars, never forget to put the parking brake off again!, because the parking brake is permanently engaged!"

 

[PrivateJoker]

the wifi still sucks but it is better when it is not in the 20/40 MHz 802.11 spec trollface mode. (router companies way of saying " It seems that you don't like waiting very long to backup data to your NAS, well, here at (insert router company name), we believe that patience is a virtue, so we created a mode that will allow us to share that feeling with you!"... " also check out our new line of cars, never forget to put the parking brake on again!, because the parking brake is permanently engaged!"

I empathize with your frustration that it's not faster, but it's not the fault of router manufacturers that there are 150 other APs in your immediate area or that you're not using 5ghz or Ethernet. You're trying to remedy congestion by stuffing yet more stuff through, that's kind of a counterproductive solution.

No routers will magically be able to clean up super congested spectrum and talk with previous gen (non AC, non super turbo QAM) in a way that mitigates the presence of 150 other APs in the vicinity, on top of hundreds of client devices and probably an omni-present chatter of hundreds of Bluetooth devices in close proximity.

If you're on a laptop there's a pretty good chance you could swap out its mini PCIe card to a dual band if that's the reason you're not on 2.4ghz. They are like $40, I've done it.

"Big router" isn't trolling people for lolz, people who use high powered 2.4ghz APs with user available overrides to use as much power & available bandwidth as possible, on any channel they please, instead of upgrading a client or two to 5ghz or running a couple pulls of Ethernet discretely are the ones putting the parking brakes on us all.

 

[Razor512]

I can also use 5GHz which performs significantly better (from indoors, I can only see 1 other 5GHz network)

I mainly use the 5GHz, but it sucks that 2.4GHz is doing so poorly. especially considering how popular it is in big cities

When a router has the 20/40 MHz Coexistence, it means that users in pretty much any city, can never use the full speed of their router. (imagine how horrible it is to have a router that does not give you the option to disable the 20/40 MHz Coexistence. (you pay for a high performing router, and it freaks out when it sees a bunch of other wifi networks, then it decides that you don't deserve the performance you paid for)

With all of the networks around me, it is not like the congestion is getting any better, every channel is already in use and the noise floor is crap on every channel.

forgot to add, the 5GHz network that I can see from in the house, is one of the time warner hotspots that requires you to sign into a time warner account.

That accesspoint is putting a pretty good signal, it is at about -70 dbm and it is somewhere across the street around 500 feet away mounted on the mall (mac address only really shows that it is made by cisco) (wish I knew which model AP they were using for that network)

 

[RMerlin]

I can also use 5GHz which performs significantly better (from indoors, I can only see 1 other 5GHz network)

I mainly use the 5GHz, but it sucks that 2.4GHz is doing so poorly. especially considering how popular it is in big cities

When a router has the 20/40 MHz Coexistence, it means that users in pretty much any city, can never use the full speed of their router. (imagine how horrible it is to have a router that does not give you the option to disable the 20/40 MHz Coexistence. (you pay for a high performing router, and it freaks out when it sees a bunch of other wifi networks, then it decides that you don't deserve the performance you paid for)

With all of the networks around me, it is not like the congestion is getting any better, every channel is already in use and the noise floor is crap on every channel.

Look at it from the other point of view. If all your neighbours started overlapping 5 channels out of 11 by default, then YOU would be even less likely to be able to achieve decent performance even with 20 MHz channel width.

That works both way.

 

[PrivateJoker]

(you pay for a high performing router, and it freaks out when it sees a bunch of other wifi networks, then it decides that you don't deserve the performance you paid for)

You have to stop taking your router so personally. It doesn't decide what you deserve, and to be honest "high performance 2.4ghz band" isn't a phrase you hear a lot, usually it's "legacy 2.4ghz. . ." Many newer client devices can't/won't even try to use multi band 2.4ghz if they are dual band devices w/ 5ghz capability.

but it sucks that 2.4GHz is doing so poorly. especially considering how popular it is in big cities

Or one could say "2.4ghz is doing so poorly, especially because of how popular it is in big cities." All the average consumer knows is if he goes and buys a nice new laptop today, he can bring it home and connect it to a pretty fast router with pretty good range and little interference if they are both 3 stream 5ghz devices. I helped a family member setup a new bottom of the line Macbook Pro this week and was kind of shocked at the improvement in 5ghz 802.11n speeds and range, connected to my router in my house that I'm pretty familiar with its performance.

forgot to add, the 5GHz network that I can see from in the house, is one of the time warner hotspots that requires you to sign into a time warner account.

That accesspoint is putting a pretty good signal, it is at about -70 dbm and it is somewhere across the street around 500 feet away mounted on the mall (mac address only really shows that it is made by cisco) (wish I knew which model AP they were using for that network)

I know in some (of its tens of thousands) of recent WiFi hotspot installations TWC has used competing equipment from this company Ruckus, such as their Ruckus ZoneFlex 7781CM. This was in the news when that WAP was announced last year (or earlier of this year) at a trade show that TWC would be using it. It's $5k, has a Docsis 3.0 8 x 4 backhaul, can support 500 simultaneous clients, and has a built in heater that activates below 14deg F.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/products/zoneflex-outdoor/7781cm

The Cisco one probably has comparable specs. . .maybe you don't need so much of a router as you do a precisely aimed directional bridge.

 

[jlake]

2.4 Ghz? It's silly.

If you live in a high density population area, you are more likely to have a highspeed ISP connection and possibly even fiber.

If you live in a high density population area, you are more likely to have interference from neighbors on 2.4 Ghz that will cripple your highspeed 2.4 Ghz. Catch 22.

Highspeed wireless LAN file transfers on 2.4 Ghz makes no sense when 5 Ghz AC is available.

There will a some people that can take advantage of the 600 Mhz, but I can't imagine there will be that many that can justify buying these routers.

Can you imagine Singapore with it's national fiber network and with it's 7000 people per square kilometer using 2.4 Ghz with this router and getting 600 Mhz link speed? I'd like to see that.
If anyone from Singapore is reading my post, I will gladly eat crow if you post an inSSIDer screenshot and speedtest on 2.4 Ghz with any of these new 2.4 Ghz powerhouse routers.