NETGEAR WNDR3700 Reviewed

[thiggins]

Thanks for the report, vasgyuszi.

The important thing for any product is that it does what you need. In your case, it sounds like the DIR-825 B1 does.

 

[Stach]

Channel Bonding Questions

Tim, I can easily get a 300 Mbps (channel bonded) connection between my internal Intel 4965AGN laptop client and the Netgear WNDR3700 at 5 Ghz. However, even though I have everything configured the same for 2.4 Ghz band, the maximum link I get is 130 Mbps.

Any ideas why the max link I can get on 2.4 Ghz is 130 Mpbs?

Thanks in advance!
Stach

 

[thiggins]

Tim, I can easily get a 300 Mbps (channel bonded) connection between my internal Intel 4965AGN laptop client and the Netgear WNDR3700 at 5 Ghz. However, even though I have everything configured the same for 2.4 Ghz band, the maximum link I get is 130 Mbps.

Go into the network properties for the adapter and change the 802.11n Channel Width (2.4 GHz) setting from 20 MHz to Auto.

 

[Stach]

Go into the network properties for the adapter and change the 802.11n Channel Width (2.4 GHz) setting from 20 MHz to Auto.

Unfortunately there is only a Channel Width setting for 5 Ghz, which is already set to Auto. I searched around some more and apparently my internal card (Intel 4965AGN)is only capable of 20 Mhz @ 2.4 Ghz. Intel seems to frown on Channel Bonding on the 2.4 Ghz frequencies, since there are only 3 non-overlapping channels, so I'm not sure if it's a hardware limitation or a software limitation imposed by the driver.

Anybody know the full story?
-Stach

 

[Maximilian]

Unfortunately there is only a Channel Width setting for 5 Ghz, which is already set to Auto. I searched around some more and apparently my internal card (Intel 4965AGN)is only capable of 20 Mhz @ 2.4 Ghz. Intel seems to frown on Channel Bonding on the 2.4 Ghz frequencies, since there are only 3 non-overlapping channels, so I'm not sure if it's a hardware limitation or a software limitation imposed by the driver.

Anybody know the full story?
-Stach

Pretty sure its a driver limitation, intel wants to reduce traffic on the 2.4 ghz band so they dont allow channel bonding at least not with that card.

 

[thiggins]

I'm very sorry, Stach, I didn't read your post carefully. Intel does, indeed, not allow 40 MHz mode on the 4965AGN. They do on their newer 5100 and 5300 N mini PCIe adapters.

 

[gringott]

Thanks for the review - great router.

A couple of weeks ago I discovered my cable modem was not functioning "the best" - I would lose connection etc and have to reboot it. After some investigation, Comcast was dropping support for it. I decided on a new DOCSIS 3.0 Motorola cable modem. It has gig ethernet on the lan side. I ordered a Linksys router to match - then I saw on here how bad it bridged to the gig ports on the switch side. I discovered your review of the new Netgear, read everything. I cancelled my order for the linksys, found a special deal on the Netgear that ended up $119. I was so excited I signed up here in your forums and posted the deal. Well, some people thought I was shilling or whatever, I only wanted to share a deal, Microsloth doesn't need me to make money and I don't need them. Whatever. The point is, I got the Netgear, it is by far the best performer I have had, so good I have to overlook the clunky interface. Paired with the Motorola cable modem, I got download speeds of 14 - 18.5 MB/s on the basic Comcast broadband service, averages are generally around 16-17 MB/s. I couldn't be happier, the review was spot-on. Today I plugged in a little 8 gb memory chip into the rapidsharepoint usb port, and the router acted dodgy. There were no files on the chip. I depowered the router, repowered, and all is good. Problem gone. Other than that, it has been great.

Thanks for the great review, on this and other products. Keep up the good work.

 

[LeeNYPost]

It took awhile to track this down. But this is not a bug. It turns out that WMM must be enabled in order to guarantee that 802.11n HT (High Throughput) rates (anything above 54 Mbps) are enabled.

I'll be writing up a short article to explain.

Tim, is this just a netgear thing or would I need to enable WMM on other routers as well to ensure use of 40mhz channels?

 

[thiggins]

Don't Mess With WMM!

 

[LeeNYPost]

Don't Mess With WMM!

I am already logged in but for some reason it says I am not authorized to view this content so I can't read the information.

 

[thiggins]

Don't know what the problem is. Try clearing browser cache, restarting browser.

 

[Stach]

WNDR3700 vs DIR-825 A1 & B1

As I stated at the beginning of this thread, I've been searching for a replacement for my bulletproof Linksys WRT54G. I have tried, tested and examined a bunch of Dual-band Wireless N routers and been less than thrilled with most, except for the D-Link 1500, D-Link 825's and the Netgear WNDR3700.

For my testing, there are a couple of caveats: 1) my laptops have the Intel 4965AGN card so I cannot bond N channels on the 2.4 Ghz band. 2) I have an Untangle Gateway, so I only test as an Access Point, since I have no need for the router functionality.

Here are my observations on the various good routers that I test in my my house:

Netgear WNDR3700 = Tied for the best throughput with the D-Link 825 B1. Has GREAT range in the 2.4 Ghz range and very good range (realizing that 5 Ghz has distance limitations) in the 5 Ghz range. This is the one that I will be keeping as I am too scared of all the negative forums posts for both variants of the D-Link 825's.

D-Link 825 B1 = Tied for the best throughput with the Netgear. Is also has very similar range on both the 2.4 and 5 Ghz frequencies. The A1 variant was definitely a small step below in both speed and range. Although I have never experienced any problems with either versions, the lack of updates or the ability to roll back to older firmware versions....combined with all of the problems in the forusm scares the heck out of me, so I will not be getting this one.

D-Link 1500 = I never fully tested the 2.4 Ghz range on this router, but the 5 Ghz range was unequaled. The speed are definitely a couple steps behind the two routers above this and the higher price and limited availability sealed its fate.

There's my brief rundown and I will definitely be keeping the Netgear. Let me know if you have any questions or comparisons that you would like answered.

-Stach

 

[vasgyuszi]

Now it's a little testing/trying behind me.
Yesterday I've got the equipment on the Saturn store (sister of Media Markt). I was very happy to get both product in one turn: the WNDR3700 and the WNDA3100.

At my flat I was placing the router exactly to the same place where the DIR-825b1 stand one day before. My main PC has having also the same position.

First I've used the already installed "Fritz!WLAN Stick N" dual-band usb adapter (http://www.avm.de/de/Produkte/FRITZBox/FRITZ_WLAN_USB_Stick_N/index.php).
After the first data moving in both directions and frequencies, I was just stunning about the relative bad performance of the WNDR3700. I was really shocked. Okay, on 2,4 GHz was only a little bit slower than the DIR-825 but in 5 GHz was terrible. Download 5-8 MBit/s and upload around 10 MBit/s finally goes to 20-25 MBit/s.

With the same WLAN-Stick (Fritz) I've had around 40up/50down on 2,4 and 30up/40down on 5 GHz with the DIR-825b1.

Uhhh, hurry up, try it with the Netgear stick too. But no significant change, the 2,4 GHz performance still below of DIR-niveau and on 5 GHz still unusable.

This all means, that for me seems to be better choice the DIR-825 and means NOT that the WNDR3700 would be bad.

I need good download performance on both band to feed my mediaplayers. Strong upload would be nice at least on one of the bands to fill my NAS behind the WLAN router. That's all my criteria.

By the way: the NMT-based mediaplayer can accept the dual-band stick of WNDA3100. This was the second aspect of my test, because nobody could answer me this important question yet. That's the very good news.

Q: How can I recognize which revision has my WNDA3100 stick?
From here I know v1 has Atheros and v2 has Broadcom chipset in it, but where/how is it signed on the stick?

Thanks in advance,
vasgyuszi

P.S.: A little question at the end: how should I set my internet conncetion, when I will using two WLAN networks on the same PC? My PC is connceted via PCI-card G-adapter from US Robotics to my WLAN-modem (internet). When I start to use the second WLAN adpater to log into the another WLAN where my NAS is, my internet conncetion goes wrong. How can I drive two WLAN sticks (logged in into two networks) on my single PC?

 

[vasgyuszi]

One thing almost being fogotten:

A big plus for WNDR3700 the seamless functionality its USB-port.
At the setup I have checked in and than my WD external drive was accessible over http or as mapped network drive or ...

But not at DIR-825: the PC-side software has found no one usb devices. After reading about such kind of issues on the net I'm much clever now: windows firewall settings must be applied to get the usb discover software working properly. Nice extra work, and nowhere documented by D-Link...

Best regards,
vasgyuszi

 

[dkyeager]

Now it's a little testing/trying behind me.
Yesterday I've got the equipment on the Saturn store (sister of Media Markt). I was very happy to get both product in one turn: the WNDR3700 and the WNDA3100.

At my flat I was placing the router exactly to the same place where the DIR-825b1 stand one day before. My main PC has having also the same position.

First I've used the already installed "Fritz!WLAN Stick N" dual-band usb adapter (http://www.avm.de/de/Produkte/FRITZBox/FRITZ_WLAN_USB_Stick_N/index.php).
After the first data moving in both directions and frequencies, I was just stunning about the relative bad performance of the WNDR3700. I was really shocked. Okay, on 2,4 GHz was only a little bit slower than the DIR-825 but in 5 GHz was terrible. Download 5-8 MBit/s and upload around 10 MBit/s finally goes to 20-25 MBit/s.

With the same WLAN-Stick (Fritz) I've had around 40up/50down on 2,4 and 30up/40down on 5 GHz with the DIR-825b1.

Uhhh, hurry up, try it with the Netgear stick too. But no significant change, the 2,4 GHz performance still below of DIR-niveau and on 5 GHz still unusable.

This all means, that for me seems to be better choice the DIR-825 and means NOT that the WNDR3700 would be bad.

I need good download performance on both band to feed my mediaplayers. Strong upload would be nice at least on one of the bands to fill my NAS behind the WLAN router. That's all my criteria.

By the way: the NMT-based mediaplayer can accept the dual-band stick of WNDA3100. This was the second aspect of my test, because nobody could answer me this important question yet. That's the very good news.

Q: How can I recognize which revision has my WNDA3100 stick?
From here I know v1 has Atheros and v2 has Broadcom chipset in it, but where/how is it signed on the stick?

Thanks in advance,
vasgyuszi

P.S.: A little question at the end: how should I set my internet conncetion, when I will using two WLAN networks on the same PC? My PC is connceted via PCI-card G-adapter from US Robotics to my WLAN-modem (internet). When I start to use the second WLAN adpater to log into the another WLAN where my NAS is, my internet conncetion goes wrong. How can I drive two WLAN sticks (logged in into two networks) on my single PC?

WNDA3100 V2 is labeled on the side of the stick, but the easier way to tell is the V1 only has a band indicator led, while v2 has a band indicator led and an AES button. photo on this page: http://kb.netgear.com/app/products/model/a_id/10604

If you are sorting through a pile of wnda3100s in a store, look for the thinner boxes. This is your only real choice since the model numbers are the same. Have yet to see an online retailer offering the v2, either by description or photo. The WNDA3100v2 did appear to me in my limited testing to be about 15% better than the V1, although I was having issues with the V1.

PS question.
Option 1) I would look for ways to link the two APs together by network cable or, if they are both wndr3700s, by using the wireless repeating function. Have the NAS AP be the main AP since the NAS will need the most bandwidth. You will then only need one adapter.
Option 2) Realize you may have radio interferance issues using two wireless adapters (thus try two different bands (ie 2.4 for one 5 for the other -- or at least different unique channels, say 1 and 11). Have the wireless routers set to provide different DHCP subnets (i.e: 192.168.1.x and 192.168.2.x using 255.255.255.0 masks). Then you will need to use the route add or route delete command from the command prompt. For example, with internet on the fist subnet, NAS on .2 of the second subnet:
route delete 0.0.0.0
route add 0.0.0.0 mask 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1
route add 192.168.2.2 mask 255.255.255.0 192.168.2.1

You should do a route print first because some of this may not be needed or you may need to do the route delete 0.0.0.0 twice.

If you don't feel comfortable with this see option 1 again. Other steps should be taken to make this easier to use on a regular basis. It is best to try to keep things simple if you can.

 

[vasgyuszi]

Wow dkyeager, thanks to responding on me!

Well, I habe definitely the v1 version of the WNDA3100, because it has no WPS button on it. And it was accepted of the NMT based mediaplayer (iStar H6, like Popcorn Hour A-110) and they accepts sticks built-in Atheros chipset. I knew that only the v1 had Atheros, v2 turned to Broadcom (infos from Tim, thanks).

The stick itself seems to perform like the Fritz! one. Connected both sticks (each after each) to the same router (WNDR3700), I had obtain similar throughputs between my PC and NAS/routerUSBport.

Best regrds,
vasgyuszi

 

[vasgyuszi]

I was not believing on my poor test result on the first try. I was made some newer runs and even I was trying to stream to my current mediaadapter. But sadly to say, with the same shaming results, like yesterday.
As I changed the placing of the router (took in into the same room, where the pc and the mediaplayer stays) the throughput were even more worst. Maybe ist was too close, about 4 Meters between the router and the stick...
I was even experimenting on the various setting and one thing has attracted my attention:
I checked out the "Setup -> Wireless Settings -> Enable Video Network" (exists only for 5 GHz). This change affected a little bit improvement on the 5 GHz performance. Now has the router on both frequencies the same (worst) performance. At least balanced ))
Now I'm ordering the DIR-825 again and take back the WNDR3700 much earlier than the 14-day money back schedule (in Germany).

What You think: should I give a chanche to the Cisco router (WRT610N) ?

Thank You,
vasgyuszi

 

[CaseLogic]

I'm pretty sure someone asked, but I need to verify before I go out and buy this router:

if I have our N adapters connect to the 5GHz radio, and our G adapters connect to the 2.4GHz radio, will the router still slow down because of the G adapters, or will it be fine because they are 2 separate radios?

 

[thiggins]

Mixed N and "legacy" clients (802.11a, b, g) simultaneously active only on the same radio cause performance degradation.

 

[CaseLogic]

Mixed N and "legacy" clients (802.11a, b, g) simultaneously active only on the same radio cause performance degradation.

thats exactly what I thought, thanks!