Newbie confusion between unmanaged and managed switch speeds

[Exponential]

Hi all,

I'm a complete novice when it comes to networking in general and would like some assistance if possible....

As a small business owner, I thought it best to invest in a NAS to store my business critical data along with my personal files etc etc so I went out and bought a QNAP464TS and filled it with N300 HDD's.
I'm learning more and more each day and have managed to configure it as best I can but there's room for improvement as always.
Anyway, doing this has led me down a rabbit hole of upgrades and I've ultimately hit a bit of a weird snag with my latest ridiculous investment....a managed switch.

So originally, I bought a TP-Link 8 Port unmanaged switch - TL-SG108-M2 and all was going well then I had an idea, surely a managed switch would boost my speeds even more!! How wrong I was!!
I went out and bought a QNAP QSW-M2108r-2C thinking that this device would somehow magically do some trickery and increase my network speeds, it did nothing of the sort and has actually REDUCED my speeds!!
How is this possible? Now there are multitude of settings built into it which are beyond my comprehension but I was under the assumption that leaving it to factory default would be ok.

I am on a BT 500 FTTP service with ONT at the living room wall.
My router is an ASUS AX GT6000 running Merlin and SKYNET with advanced configurations set from following a well known youtuber so I'm quite certain that the set up is correct on that end.

I'm thinking I should just put the unmanaged switch back and sell (at a loss) the new managed switch which I've just bought to save me the hastle!!

Any help or questions please ask...........

Cheers.

 

[ddaenen1]

AFAIK (un)managed has nothing to do with the switch throughput speed. An unmanaged that is equipped to handle 1Gbps will be equally fast as a managed switch with similar specs. An unmanaged (or dumb) switch will just direct all traffic to all ports without thinking about it. With a managed switch, you just have the possibility to configure certain more advanced network functions such as VLANs, QoS and others.

 

[Exponential]

AFAIK (un)managed has nothing to do with the switch throughput speed. An unmanaged that is equipped to handle 1Gbps will be equally fast as a managed switch with similar specs. An unmanaged (or dumb) switch will just direct all traffic to all ports without thinking about it. With a managed switch, you just have the possibility to configure certain more advanced network functions such as VLANs, QoS and others.

Hi

Thanks for your input! Well I clearly have two options here as I know nothing about how to set a managed switch up....I either learn how to do it or sell it and install the unmanaged switch back in again.
The other thing I guess I must consider here is the fact that I can do all of the things you've mentioned in my router if I feel the need to so does that make the managed switch redundant?
I run a LAG from the managed switch to my NAS but again, my router can do that too!
The only thing that confuses me is the 2.5 Gbe? I don't get that at all on any of my ports including the LAG to the NAS. The max I ever see is 1Gbe.

 

[Exponential]

My case is truly a "all the gear - no idea" scenario

 

[Tech Junky]

2.5 Gbe

Well, if both ends are the same speed it should be working at that speed.

LAG - there are 4 different modes and they all behave differently. So, you seeing 1GE speeds no matter what would indicate you're using the wrong one or either device isn't negotiating the same protocol.

Link aggregation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now, if it's using LACP / 802.3ad it should be working at speed of the combined links in this case it sounds like 2GE. Now, if the NIC in the NAS is 2.5GE it won't do 2GE on a single port. If you were to switch the NIC though to a dual port 1GE and LACP the links then you would get 2GE speeds through the switch.

I find it much easier to roll a NAS function into a PC as I'm not stuck with the # of bays a particular NAS has when I buy it. I can cram in a lot more drives for a lot less cost. I can manage things better than the OS on a NAS and not worry about as many bugs / remote wipe potential issues. Than again I can get over 400MB/s out of my disks in a Raid 10 setup w/ a 5th disk as a hot standby that will take over w/o any intervention. I use the PC though as a Router / Switch / AP as well and got rid of the other junk for the same reasons of bad SW updates causing more issues than I felt like dealing with routinely.

If you have a PC laying around you could make it into a NAS fairly easily. If you want it to be a switch as well you can add additional NICs to it and have it function as one as well. Buying NICs at different speeds / density is typically cheaper than a switch with the same specs. My 4 port 5GE NIC is only $200 whereas a switch doesn't exist for that speed or it's limited in the port count / very expensive. Now, a 2.5GE switch is a bit cheaper and only $100. I like to keep things running at speed though so, if the disks are doing 400MB/s or more I want the network to be able to do that as well and have room or other functions at the same time.

 

[ddaenen1]

Hi

I run a LAG from the managed switch to my NAS but again, my router can do that too!
The only thing that confuses me is the 2.5 Gbe? I don't get that at all on any of my ports including the LAG to the NAS. The max I ever see is 1Gbe.

Well, if your NAS ports or any of the ports of other devices attached to the switch are 1Gbe then it is obvious that the switch will autonegotiate the respective switch ports to 1Gbe. The fact that you run a LAG doesn't change anything to that.

 

[Exponential]

Well, if both ends are the same speed it should be working at that speed.

LAG - there are 4 different modes and they all behave differently. So, you seeing 1GE speeds no matter what would indicate you're using the wrong one or either device isn't negotiating the same protocol.

Link aggregation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now, if it's using it should be working at speed of the combined links in this case it sounds like 2GE. Now, if the NIC in the NAS is 2.5GE it won't do 2GE on a single port. If you were to switch the NIC though to a dual port 1GE and LACP the links then you would get 2GE speeds through the switch.

I find it much easier to roll a NAS function into a PC as I'm not stuck with the # of bays a particular NAS has when I buy it. I can cram in a lot more drives for a lot less cost. I can manage things better than the OS on a NAS and not worry about as many bugs / remote wipe potential issues. Than again I can get over 400MB/s out of my disks in a Raid 10 setup w/ a 5th disk as a hot standby that will take over w/o any intervention. I use the PC though as a Router / Switch / AP as well and got rid of the other junk for the same reasons of bad SW updates causing more issues than I felt like dealing with routinely.

If you have a PC laying around you could make it into a NAS fairly easily. If you want it to be a switch as well you can add additional NICs to it and have it function as one as well. Buying NICs at different speeds / density is typically cheaper than a switch with the same specs. My 4 port 5GE NIC is only $200 whereas a switch doesn't exist for that speed or it's limited in the port count / very expensive. Now, a 2.5GE switch is a bit cheaper and only $100. I like to keep things running at speed though so, if the disks are doing 400MB/s or more I want the network to be able to do that as well and have room or other functions at the same time.

Hi

Yes, I am using LACP / 802.3ad configured as such at both ends. My QNAP NAS has (obviously) 2 ports which are 2.5Gbe capable and the managed QNAP switch has 8 x 2.5Gbe port as well as 2 x 10Gbe ports (ports 9 & 10) which are also capable of multiple speeds from 1Gbe through to 10Gbe.
I have chosen ports 9 & 10 for the LAG so I should, in theory get 2.5Gbe transfer speeds.
Using the "container manager" in the NAS, I have run a speed test which always tops out at 100mbps every time. If I have this right, that equates to 1Gbe?

I clearly have much to learn here as the scope for these managed switches is huge! Much more complicated than I first imagined.

I am not even close to your level of knowledge so, to be honest, don't understand half of what you've said!

I don't have a PC lying about to use I'm afraid so that idea wouldn't work and, after investing so much money into my current set up, I would be reluctant to do that anyway.

We've all got to start somewhere though so I guess I'll keep doing my research and try to learn as much as I can!!

 

[Tech Junky]

ports 9 & 10 for the LAG

So, to keep it simple and not throw too many things at once.

How long are the cables going to the nas?

On the nas did you go into network and set lacp?

On the switch I assume you set lacp.

On the PC side did you upgrade the speed to 2.5GE? Since you have conceivably a combined 5GE link with lacp testing with a 5GE nic should yield maximum speed from the disks. I use a sabrent 5ge USB nic when connecting at max speeds and they're fairly cheap.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08977K9D2/?tag=snbforums-20

The problem I see now would be getting 5ge speed from the other ports since only 9/10 would be able to. If you move the nas to say 1/2 and then directly connected the sabrent to 9 or 10 it should connect at full speed.

 

[Tech9]

I'm a complete novice... I'm learning more and more each day and have managed to configure it as best I can

My router is an ASUS AX GT6000 running Merlin and SKYNET with advanced configurations set from following a well known youtuber

You better do a backup of your business critical data now. Like immediately. Learning on a life system may have unexpected consequences.

 

[Exponential]

So, to keep it simple and not throw too many things at once.

How long are the cables going to the nas?

On the nas did you go into network and set lacp?

On the switch I assume you set lacp.

On the PC side did you upgrade the speed to 2.5GE? Since you have conceivably a combined 5GE link with lacp testing with a 5GE nic should yield maximum speed from the disks. I use a sabrent 5ge USB nic when connecting at max speeds and they're fairly cheap.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08977K9D2/?tag=snbforums-20

The problem I see now would be getting 5ge speed from the other ports since only 9/10 would be able to. If you move the nas to say 1/2 and then directly connected the sabrent to 9 or 10 it should connect at full speed.

The cables going to the NAS are 10 metres long and are Shielded Cat6 cables.

Yes, I have configured the NAS to LAG ports 1 & 2 for LACP / 802.3ad and confirmed it's functioning correctly (separately transferring data).
I have also created a rule in the NAS firewall for ports 1 & 2 combined as beforehand, I couldn't gain access to the NAS when creating the LAG.

Yes, the switch is also set to the same settings:

My router also shows my connection status as follows:

The upper left connection is the input from the ONT and the bottom left is the output to the managed switch.
The USB is just the Merlin database.
The router is also capable of LACP / 802.3ad via ports 1 & 2 but I thought the switch could do a better job of managing it all.

My PC is connected via WiFi on the same network so is not part of the wired chain unless you think there would be any benefit from being wired???

As far as these 5Gbe NIC's/USB's are concerned, I've no idea how they work at all?

I will give you an overview of my small set up:

Managed Switch:

Port 1 - Router Input
Port 2 - Intel NUC - ROON Core music server
Port 3 - Nvidia Shield - Movie streaming - PLEX endpoint
Port 4 - TV
Port 5 - Connected Cat 6 cable (10 metres) for any speaker measurements etc I need - Not connected to anything at present
Port 6 - Satellite DVR
Port 7 - PS4 PRO
Port 8 - Disabled (unsused)

Port 9 & 10 - NAS - PLEX Server - Movies/Music database - Business critical files - Personal data

 

[Exponential]

You better do a backup of your business critical data now. Like immediately. Learning on a life system may have unexpected consequences.

I have business data back ups to 3 separate locations - Physical, cloud based and removable SSD. I appreciate your concern though!!

 

[Tech Junky]

As far as these 5Gbe NIC's/USB's are concerned, I've no idea how they work at all?

They work like any other connection. They're at the speed vs price break point since if you're using a laptop a 10GE requires a TB port and the 10GE adapter runs several times more in price vs a 5GE option.

Port 1 - Router Input
Port 2 - Intel NUC - ROON Core music server
Port 3 - Nvidia Shield - Movie streaming - PLEX endpoint
Port 4 - TV
Port 5 - Connected Cat 6 cable (10 metres) for any speaker measurements etc I need - Not connected to anything at present
Port 6 - Satellite DVR
Port 7 - PS4 PRO
Port 8 - Disabled (unsused)

Port 9 & 10 - NAS - PLEX Server - Movies/Music database - Business critical files - Personal data

Looking at these the speed of some of them might be as little as 100mbps like the TV / NVIDIA / DVR / PS4. The connected speed should show in the switch though and moving them to the router instead will decrease the need for interrupting faster devices that can actually use the switch bandwidth to its potential.

Moving the NAS to the other ports freed up from moving slower devices and connecting 9/10 to the router will give better throughput across the whole network to the NAS / other remaining devices. The other thing you can use the USB 5GE for is connecting it to the router for a faster uplink port. Connecting it to the router would give you 5GE speed to things connected to the switch i.e. NAS. So, if you are dealing with GB/TB of data that needs to sync between your PC / NAS regularly this would give you a faster completion time. You would simply need another Sabrent for the PC / router to get those speeds.

Router <sabrent usb> switch port 9 or 10 <LACP / 2 ports> NAS
PC <sabrent usb> switch port 9 or 10

The idea here is to put the high priority data devices on the switch to give you the best performance when moving data. In reality the TV / NVIDIA / NUC DVR / PS4 don't need high bandwidth for the streaming to work. As noted they might not even have a port that does more than 100mbps because most streams are under 20mbps. With this in mind and seeing the devices being used it might be better to ditch the switch and use the unmanaged one instead that's cheaper and link only the PC / NAS together using the USB option or if it's a PC not laptop then put in a 5GE NIC on both sides for priority access between the two and use the 2.5 port on the NAS to feed into the router.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088PH48H3/?tag=snbforums-20

The NIC is about the same price as the USB option but more permanent. If the NAS has a 2nd slot inside then putting one of these in would get you fast speeds. Otherwise there's a dual port version as well https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KTZHZ78/?tag=snbforums-20

It all comes down to what you want to achieve when it comes to speed. Ultimately it comes down to price / convenience. If you wanted to there are some that use a 40gbps DAC card / cable to go even further and speeds with those can go even higher but, then your bottleneck becomes he NAS / disks.

 

[ColinTaylor]

Using the "container manager" in the NAS, I have run a speed test which always tops out at 100mbps every time. If I have this right, that equates to 1Gbe?

Please clarify what you mean by this. "100mbps" is not a valid speed, it would be 100 millibits per second. Do you mean 100 Mbps (megabits) or 100 MBps (megabytes)? Is it exactly 100 or is it approximately 100?

 

[Exponential]

They work like any other connection. They're at the speed vs price break point since if you're using a laptop a 10GE requires a TB port and the 10GE adapter runs several times more in price vs a 5GE option.


Looking at these the speed of some of them might be as little as 100mbps like the TV / NVIDIA / DVR / PS4. The connected speed should show in the switch though and moving them to the router instead will decrease the need for interrupting faster devices that can actually use the switch bandwidth to its potential.

Moving the NAS to the other ports freed up from moving slower devices and connecting 9/10 to the router will give better throughput across the whole network to the NAS / other remaining devices. The other thing you can use the USB 5GE for is connecting it to the router for a faster uplink port. Connecting it to the router would give you 5GE speed to things connected to the switch i.e. NAS. So, if you are dealing with GB/TB of data that needs to sync between your PC / NAS regularly this would give you a faster completion time. You would simply need another Sabrent for the PC / router to get those speeds.

Router <sabrent usb> switch port 9 or 10 <LACP / 2 ports> NAS
PC <sabrent usb> switch port 9 or 10

The idea here is to put the high priority data devices on the switch to give you the best performance when moving data. In reality the TV / NVIDIA / NUC DVR / PS4 don't need high bandwidth for the streaming to work. As noted they might not even have a port that does more than 100mbps because most streams are under 20mbps. With this in mind and seeing the devices being used it might be better to ditch the switch and use the unmanaged one instead that's cheaper and link only the PC / NAS together using the USB option or if it's a PC not laptop then put in a 5GE NIC on both sides for priority access between the two and use the 2.5 port on the NAS to feed into the router.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088PH48H3/?tag=snbforums-20

The NIC is about the same price as the USB option but more permanent. If the NAS has a 2nd slot inside then putting one of these in would get you fast speeds. Otherwise there's a dual port version as well https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KTZHZ78/?tag=snbforums-20

It all comes down to what you want to achieve when it comes to speed. Ultimately it comes down to price / convenience. If you wanted to there are some that use a 40gbps DAC card / cable to go even further and speeds with those can go even higher but, then your bottleneck becomes he NAS / disks.

Ok, I have made some changes as you suggest and it seems to have made a positive difference.

I disconnected all cables to the switch with the exception of the input from the router and made the following changes.

Router - Configured to LACP / 802.3ad on ports 1 & 2 (1 Gbe ports)
Switch - Multi Gbe Ports 9 & 10 - LAG Port fed from router ports 1 & 2
Switch - Ports 7 & 8 LAG - NAS
NAS - Ports 1 & 2 Configured to LACP / 802.3ad fed from ports 7 & 8 at the switch

All low bandwidth connections (LG Tv and Freesat DVR) connected to ports 3 & 4 on the router.

Nvidia Shield and PS4 PRO individually connected to ports 2 & 3 respectively.
Port 1 is connected to a link cable I use for long runs when I'm in need of ethernet in the kitchen.

I've looked at these Sabrent USB 5 Gbe converters and they look like they could be a great addition to my set up so I'll do a bit more research on these.

Currently, with the setup described above, I feel that things are running much smoother with me being able to simultaneously transfer a Blu-ray MKV rip from a Blu-ray burner attached to my laptop transmitted wirelessly directly to my NAS whilst also transferring data from another location to the NAS.
Both LAG ports are running simultaneously at between 50 - 80 mbps. This is a significant improvement over how it was running before BUT there is certainly room for further improvement!!

 

[ColinTaylor]

@Exponential I see you "liked" my previous post but you didn't answer either of my questions.

Do you mean 100 Mbps (megabits) or 100 MBps (megabytes)? Is it exactly 100 or is it approximately 100?

In your last post you've made the same mistake again, "mbps" is not a rate. We cannot guess what you really mean as we do not know how you're determining these speeds.

Both LAG ports are running simultaneously at between 50 - 80 mbps.

 

[Exponential]

@Exponential I see you "liked" my previous post but you didn't answer either of my questions.


In your last post you've made the same mistake again, "mbps" is not a rate. We cannot guess what you really mean as we do not know how you're determining these speeds.

This is what my switch is telling me...............

I honestly don't truly know what it means though!! It looks fast to me! hahaha

 

[Tech Junky]

Any improvement is a step in the right direction. Now, to fully test you need to be able to saturate the link. This is where the sabrent can help. If you get it just for testing and drop several individual files it should show higher use in the switch graphs.

I suspect the graphs are MB/s as that would be a normal threshold for WiFi. Putting the sabrent into port 9 or 10 should get the nas ports to show use on both at the same time. This will at least shows things working to their potential. From there it's just going to be tweaking and optimizing things for the best speeds based on priority.

 

[ColinTaylor]

OK That's megabits per second (Mbps). That is diabolically bad. A Gigabit Ethernet connection is 1000 Mbps and 2.5GbE is 2500 Mbps. While 70 Mbps might be understandable if you're connecting over 2.4GHz Wi-Fi that doesn't explain why you said you were getting 100 Mbps over a wired Ethernet connection.

You still didn't answer my other question, "Is it exactly 100 or is it approximately 100?". If it's exactly 100 Mbps that could imply you have a cable fault and it's only operating at 100BASE-T.

 

[Tech9]

It looks fast to me!

It looks like Fast Ethernet to me!

I remember LAN speeds like this 15 years ago.

 

[Exponential]

Any improvement is a step in the right direction. Now, to fully test you need to be able to saturate the link. This is where the sabrent can help. If you get it just for testing and drop several individual files it should show higher use in the switch graphs.

I suspect the graphs are MB/s as that would be a normal threshold for WiFi. Putting the sabrent into port 9 or 10 should get the nas ports to show use on both at the same time. This will at least shows things working to their potential. From there it's just going to be tweaking and optimizing things for the best speeds based on priority.

I think it would be prudent to invest in one of these 5Gbe Sabrent USB devices if for nothing else other than testing purposes!

I'm on amazon as we speak!!