newbie needing help with a moca setup (ota signals)

[mulliganman]

Hello. I am wondering if someone on this forum could help me. I am wondering if it is possible to setup a moca Ethernet connection to a couple of Fire TV's I have over the same coaxial line I get my ota tv signals from. I am attaching a diagram of what I was picturing in my mind but again not sure if this is possible.

Some links that might be of help:

MCR splitter (MCR 5-1200MHz Broadband RF Splitter: http://www.amt.com/mfrcatalog/mcr-group-rf-coax-distribution

Moca adapter: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008EQ4BQG/?tag=snbforums-20

The amplifier I am using to boost one signal: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BN5Z2UY/?tag=snbforums-20

My tv fool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=cd3f49d709a034

Currently, I am splitting the signal to 3 TV's after the Tinlee combiner with this (taken out of diagram because didn't think it was the appropriate splitter): http://www.hollandelectronics.com/catalog/catalog.php?product_id=HFS-Series-Diode-Steered-Splitters

The DVR+ is the Channel Master DVR+ over the air dvr.

 

[mulliganman]

Oops. Forgot the attachment.

 

[azazel1024]

Maybe.

UHF overlaps with MoCA frequencies quite a bit, but if the bridges you are using have selectable channels or have auto-channel hopping to avoid interference than you are probably fine.

MoCA ranges from 500-1500MHz range and UHF runs up to 890MHz.

 

[mulliganman]

Maybe.

UHF overlaps with MoCA frequencies quite a bit, but if the bridges you are using have selectable channels or have auto-channel hopping to avoid interference than you are probably fine.

MoCA ranges from 500-1500MHz range and UHF runs up to 890MHz.

Thanks for replying! By bridges, are you referring to the ActionTec Moca Adapters I showed in the diagram? How would I know if it has selectable channels or have auto-channel to avoid the interference with my UHF signals.

My main reason for considering the configuration is to get an ethernet signal to my Amazon Fire TV to get a higher speed and quality for online streaming like mlb.tv

Thought about powerline adapters but wasn't sure if that would be better than the wireless I am getting with my Netgear R7000 routers.

 

[stevech]

The old MoCA boxes I have use frequencies about 1GHz to avoid standard cable TV frequencies.

 

[mulliganman]

The old MoCA boxes I have use frequencies about 1GHz to avoid standard cable TV frequencies.

If these would make what I am considering attempting would you mind sharing if they are still available for purchase?

If I would need different equipment please share what it would be and explain where I would be substituting in the diagram I provided. Thanks!

 

[stevech]

I doubt it. When I bought, the only ones available in retail were D-Link and (IIRC) Netgear. My D-Link pair have run for years, getting 70Mbps to the room where the TV and HTPC are and where I can't get cat5. I tried IP over power wiring and it was too flaky due to power line noise and changes of what was connected nearby.

I thought the MoCA standard required use above all cable TV frequencies - I think that's 800MHz +. I use splitters rated for 2GHz.

 

[stevech]

I doubt it. When I bought, the only ones available in retail were D-Link and (IIRC) Netgear. My D-Link pair have run for years, getting 70Mbps net IP layer yield (not raw OFDM bit rate) to the room where the TV and HTPC are and where I can't get cat5. I tried IP over power wiring and it was too flaky due to power line noise and changes of what was connected nearby.

You may find the below on eBay or Amazon; not sold retail anymore.
http://us.dlink.com/product-category/home-solutions/connect/moca/

Maybe ActionTec too.

I thought the MoCA standard required use above all cable TV frequencies - I think that's 800MHz +. I use splitters rated for 2GHz.

 

[mulliganman]

I doubt it. When I bought, the only ones available in retail were D-Link and (IIRC) Netgear. My D-Link pair have run for years, getting 70Mbps net IP layer yield (not raw OFDM bit rate) to the room where the TV and HTPC are and where I can't get cat5. I tried IP over power wiring and it was too flaky due to power line noise and changes of what was connected nearby.

You may find the below on eBay or Amazon; not sold retail anymore.
http://us.dlink.com/product-category/home-solutions/connect/moca/

Maybe ActionTec too.

I thought the MoCA standard required use above all cable TV frequencies - I think that's 800MHz +. I use splitters rated for 2GHz.

Hmmm... I am not sure if those are any different than the Action Tec ones I already linked to.

Just to be sure, you guys seem to be suggesting that the setup I attached in the diagram may not work because of the overlap with UHF tv signals. But, there is no alternatives to make it work. Am I correct?

 

[CaptainSTX]

In the US UHF is broadcast on Channels 14-83 which translates into 470 - 890 Mhz.

MOCA has been developed to coexist on the same Coaxial cables that CATV uses which are the frequencies up to 900 Mhz.

MOCA normally uses the frequencies above 1000 Mhz. The Actiontec adapters that I have operate at 1100 Mhz.

Given the above you should have no problems with frequency interference.

Just be sure that your fittings are tight, your cable splitters are rated for 2 Ghz or better and that you try and avoid multiple splitters in any cable run and that you try to avoid using splitter with four or more ports.

 

[thoma]

In the US UHF is broadcast on Channels 14-83 which translates into 470 - 890 Mhz.

MOCA has been developed to coexist on the same Coaxial cables that CATV uses which are the frequencies up to 900 Mhz.

MOCA normally uses the frequencies above 1000 Mhz. The Actiontec adapters that I have operate at 1100 Mhz.

UHF television tops out at channel 51 in the United States, which goes up to 698 MHz. Channels 52-83 have been reallocated for other purposes.

MoCA can operate as low as 500 MHz, in order to offer the option of coexisting with satellite TV. However, the MoCA adapters that are designed to coexist with cable TV will operate above 1 GHz. This also means that they coexist with broadcast TV.

For example, the spec sheet for the Actiontec ECB2500C, which the OP was considering, is listed as operating over 1125-1525 MHz: http://www.actiontec.com/products/datasheets/EthCoaxMoCAadptr_2500c_ds3.pdf (PDF)

Thus, this particular adapter will not overlap with ATSC broadcast channels.

 

[azazel1024]

UHF television tops out at channel 51 in the United States, which goes up to 698 MHz. Channels 52-83 have been reallocated for other purposes.

MoCA can operate as low as 500 MHz, in order to offer the option of coexisting with satellite TV. However, the MoCA adapters that are designed to coexist with cable TV will operate above 1 GHz. This also means that they coexist with broadcast TV.

For example, the spec sheet for the Actiontec ECB2500C, which the OP was considering, is listed as operating over 1125-1525 MHz: http://www.actiontec.com/products/datasheets/EthCoaxMoCAadptr_2500c_ds3.pdf (PDF)

Thus, this particular adapter will not overlap with ATSC broadcast channels.

Keep in mind, they are repurposed, but they ARE in use. If you are pulling OTA, the antenna is going to be picking up signals in that range if you have a UHF or a combined VHF/UHF antenna. It doesn't matter if you want to view those channels or not.

That said, the MoCA bridges are likely to be much stronger than the signal on the wire from an OTA antenna. So for the bridges themselves, it likely won't be an issue and since you don't care about watching channels that don't exist, you are probably fine.

If you want I can test by plugging my OTA antenna in to my coax splitter and see what happens (I have FIOS, but I also have an OTA antenna with the coax hanging loose by the main splitter).

MoCA bridges tend to operate in two ways, they have a management page/application (look search for your particular bridge) or else they have auto channel selection.

 

[mulliganman]

In the US UHF is broadcast on Channels 14-83 which translates into 470 - 890 Mhz.

MOCA has been developed to coexist on the same Coaxial cables that CATV uses which are the frequencies up to 900 Mhz.

MOCA normally uses the frequencies above 1000 Mhz. The Actiontec adapters that I have operate at 1100 Mhz.

Given the above you should have no problems with frequency interference.

Just be sure that your fittings are tight, your cable splitters are rated for 2 Ghz or better and that you try and avoid multiple splitters in any cable run and that you try to avoid using splitter with four or more ports.

So are the splitters I linked to okay to use or not? One of my OTA signals is getting amplified from a Winegard LNA 100 amp. Not sure if that matters or not.

Here is a link to the Moca splitters I mentioned in the diagram: http://www.amt.com/images/products//MCR-B-ME-2E_Data_Sheet.pdf

 

[mulliganman]

Keep in mind, they are repurposed, but they ARE in use. If you are pulling OTA, the antenna is going to be picking up signals in that range if you have a UHF or a combined VHF/UHF antenna. It doesn't matter if you want to view those channels or not.

That said, the MoCA bridges are likely to be much stronger than the signal on the wire from an OTA antenna. So for the bridges themselves, it likely won't be an issue and since you don't care about watching channels that don't exist, you are probably fine.

If you want I can test by plugging my OTA antenna in to my coax splitter and see what happens (I have FIOS, but I also have an OTA antenna with the coax hanging loose by the main splitter).

MoCA bridges tend to operate in two ways, they have a management page/application (look search for your particular bridge) or else they have auto channel selection.

So are we still not sure if using those Action Tec Moca adapters and other materials I showed in the diagram cause interference with my OTA signals if I setup in that way.

 

[stevech]

If I'm correct that all the OTA signals are 800MHz and lower, and MoCA is 1GHz+, there should no issues.

 

[CaptainSTX]

Any splitter bought from a reliable source rated for 2 Ghz or 3 Ghz should work. The price should probably be in the $1 - $3 range. Avoid the junk you get from places like Dollar General, Walgreens, etc.

As for your AMP you may need to replace it if you are going to have it in your MOCA network. An OTA antenna amp only needs to be one way capable and no more than 1000 Mhz. To pass MOCA you need an AMP that is two way (data) capable and will pass 2 Ghz.

 

[mulliganman]

Any splitter bought from a reliable source rated for 2 Ghz or 3 Ghz should work. The price should probably be in the $1 - $3 range. Avoid the junk you get from places like Dollar General, Walgreens, etc.

As for your AMP you may need to replace it if you are going to have it in your MOCA network. An OTA antenna amp only needs to be one way capable and no more than 1000 Mhz. To pass MOCA you need an AMP that is two way (data) capable and will pass 2 Ghz.

I am asking about the Winegard LNA 100 amp because I wasn't sure if it would make a difference based on where its located (before the device that is combining my two antenna signals into a single signal output; namely the Tinlee AC7 combiner). So, if you have a chance can you check out my diagram and see if you still feel the same way.

 

[stevech]

With the amp between the antenna and the first splitter, and use only one port on the amp, it's a non-issue.

 

[azazel1024]

It won't cause any issues with your OTA TV watching, however having the antenna on your coax MAY interfer with your MoCA bridges.

I tried testing my setup and I noticed no issues, but I am only using a single ECB2500 to bridge my coax to my ethernet LAN for my DVR. It continued to work just fine when I plugged my antenna in to my coax splitters and disconnected my coax from my ONT box (so as not to be feeding both OTA and "cable" in to the coax at once).

I am not using any amps anywhere however and my OTA antenna is not super high gain. I don't have any frequency analyzers to see what kind of signal/noise I might be picking up in the relevant MoCA frequency ranges as a result of feeding my coax with the OTA antenna, but again, my bridge works just fine this way.

I cannot guarantee your setup will work (who could?), but it SHOULD work.

 

[willmatt]

You might want to refer to this article in Wikipedia regarding current UHF Frequency assignments:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_television_frequencies
With the transition to DTV the highest UHF frequency is now 698 MHz, Channel 51.
If you encounter interference consider a MOCA filter or a better choice would be a filter that removes frequencies above 700 MHz between the antenna and your antenna amplifier.