Omada EAP245 Map and Seperate SSID

[lardo5150]

I understand the coverage map is an estimator, but just wanted to get some clarification on these as this is the first time I am using one.
Below is my current coverage map. The AP was defaulted at "HIGH" for Tx power. The red area was huge.
My plan was to put on where you see it on the map in the first picture, and another in the second picture. Sorry, only one EAP245 has shown up so far, waiting for two more (1 goes upstairs).

I have it turned down to "LOW" right now, as I would like seemless roaming.
What worries me are the Nest cameras I have outside. I have two in front (one at the front door, the other on the far right side of the garage door opening).
We also use our phones in the backyard (pool) to manage our music in Sonos, so I have to make sure I get coverage there.
The yellow area after red, is this just weaker signal? Or do I want my areas completely covered in red?

Sorry for not having a full coverage map, my other two SHOULD be in tomorrow, but started to play with this now.

Also, should I be using two seperate SSIDs for 2GHz and 5GHz or just enabled the AP to do a single SSID for both?

 

[lardo5150]

Again, I know this is an estimate, so if it would be better to show what the wifi analyzer shows with signal strength, then I can do that once they all come in to get a proper test.

 

[lardo5150]

So I installed my first one today. I am waiting for my cabling to come in.
Right now, I have it set to HIGH.
I moved the 2gh to channel 1 and the 5ghz to channel 149 based on congestion (lot of close houses in this sub division).

This just does not seem right. Have a look at my wifi analyzer.

I mounted it behind the TV. I do not think I can get up into the ceiling like Trip and I talked about before.
Wife threw a fit when I said I was going to mount to the top of the cubby, so I hid it behind the TV.

 

[lardo5150]

Here I am standing directly underneath of it. My SSIDs are DonkeyPunch and DonkeyPunch_5G (long story on the names).
If you see any others, they are just my other APs that I have not cleaned up yet.



This is me standing about 20 to 30 feet away, in the kitchen. Nothing between me and the AP besides the TV.

 

[lardo5150]

Here I am sitting in my wife's office, where the second AP was supposed to go.



5G in my wife's office

 

[lardo5150]

5G in my kitchen



Sitting in the kitchen on my laptop, I only pull down around 54MB on 2g and 200MB on 5G

Am I doing something wrong? Is this normal?
My real concern are my cameras in the front. I was hoping the AP in my wife's office would be able to have them connect on 5G.

 

[lardo5150]

Could someone tag Val D., I dont know how, he also has Omada.

 

[Tech Focus]

I don’t have Omada but it looks fairly similar to UniFi setup I have. So below is what I have done with my setup so far. But as I read more scientific article, I learn there are several misinfo out there, which could include what my current understanding, too. But nonetheless, here is what I have done.

1. Use AP heatmap for start point - It looks like you have it in 5G area of coverage mode? I'd do it for 2.4 GHz too. Also, from what I see I do not think you have specified what are wall materials. In general, SNR have more significant impact from construct materials than pure SQFT coverage in many cases. Having said that, On my UniFi after adding wall, I don’t think I noticed much change in its estimated coverage in fact any. Nonetheless, it is probably worth putting those info for better accuracy if you have the capability as Omada may do it better.

I believe these heat map (especially virtual/unowned one) is simply using known transmission power to estimate radius. So I have virtually moved around each AP wherever I could potentially set them up i.e. where RJ45 jacks are. This to look relative area of coverage on both 2.4G and 5G. 2G for whole area coverage I.e. corner to corner. 5G for high demand/use area. This means I don’t think you need to put two AP furthest apart. Such placement may make center point a weakest signal which may or may not meet your typical home use/demand.

2. As far as channel, I believe you case seem more straight forward because if all other Signal shown are from your own old AP, you are saying you basically don’t have anything to worry about other than all under your control. This means you could perhaps even use Automatic setup by manufacture to have them choose your own channel. They should choose orthogonal/non-overlap channel in such situation. This is more important on 2G channel, so make sure 1, 6 or 11 are chosen. Else you can just choose them manually but I’d choose separate two. 5 GHz should be far a part anyways.

3. Based on UniFi forum suggestion, I have put 2.4 GHz band set to low transmission and 5 GHz high transmission first. This is so 2.4 GHz won’t over take 5 GHz. Roaming is based on Signal strength not throughput. So unless Omada has some smart implementation about this, I’d try manually starting these setting. I then noticed one area didn’t have enough Wi-Fi I.e.dropout so I increased corresponding 2.4 GHz AP power to medium.

4. If #3 won’t achieve what you need e.g. 2G won’t reach then that’s when I moved AP little bit from where original heat map plan suggested.

For seamless roaming, you may need to turn on AP fast roaming option (at least it’s optional to UniFi). But if I turn it on on my system, it works decent on newer devices but I see some warning message on my log stating AP taking longer time to associate for a few times a day. So I know turning that option is creating some issue to some clients. So it wasn’t worth it for me so I have mine turned off.

As for your speed, it looks fairly slow for 5G.

What channel width are you using? 80 MHz? If not, definitely change to 80 MHz. Otherwise, the first test I would do is peak performance assessment by measuring 5 GHz speed just next to the AP. Then start looking PHY.

Good luck!

 

[lardo5150]

Changed the 5ghz to 80.
I stood directly underneath of it. My phone got 370MBps from fast.com
my laptop got 250mbps

 

[lardo5150]

It seems my Nighthawk and the ATT router they gave me, were all stronger.
I am not understanding how standing underneath of it does not produce better results.

 

[lardo5150]

Any suggestions?

Is there a configuration I should be doing?

I really feel like I should be seeing better speeds/signal strength.

I was going to have the one I currently have now, plus one in the wife's office, plus one upstairs.

Should I actually be doing more downstairs? Maybe one in the master closet where the ATT router/Wifi is?

 

[Tech Focus]

If peak performance is not what you expected/previously faster, next step I would do is check PHY. I don't have Android but AP interface should have the info. Know device MIMO capability. Also since you have Android, your client may support 160 MHz Channel on Client so check that and you could change your AP to match that. Though technically, with 2x2 MIMO AC Wave 2 AP, you should be able to see ~500 Mbps at its peak depending on the system efficiency. If it's Ax then you should see 600 Mbps+. All assuming of course you don't have other bottleneck e.g. internet speed, router etc.

Oh and 2.4 vs. 5 GHz single vs. 2 SSID, I think its really depends on what one prefers. I heard both side of argument and it sounds both have pros and cons. I personally use single SSID and have 5G only connection as separate SSID if I want to force it, but in UniFI if I do this, it works but it won't seem to give me the full 5GHz speed. But if you want to force/ensure IoT connects to 2.4 GHz or certain devices connect to 5 GHz, using 2 SSID allows you to do that.

 

[lardo5150]

So I plugged the old router in, and did a comparison, one at a time.
I used Wifi Analyzer Premium, and Speedtest by Ookla
I used my Samsung Note 8 as my test subject.

Left the EAP245 on High.

 

[Trip]

Comparing a single AP -- especially models that are built to be part of a distributed system -- to an all-in-one, is almost never fair. APs tend to be lower-power, lower-amplification and lower antenna gain, per radio array; all-in-ones tend to be the exact opposite in most, if not all, regards.

Again, think of what the intended use-case is. With an all-in-one, the makers know the consumer is plunking it down in some corner somewhere so they need to blast as much signal (and consequently noise) as far as they possibly can. With distributed APs, the intended approach is multiple broadcast points at lower power, closer to the clients themselves.

Regarding the speed discrepancies you're noticing between the Nighthawk and EAP245 when standing directly by both, it would depend on what model Nighthawk we're comparing with here, but I'd presume the higher amplification and/or spatial streams (4x4 perhaps?) are producing better effective receive gain, thus delivering more usable bandwidth over distance, when compared to the 3x3 EAP245. All in all, though, you're using mostly 2x2 wifi clients, so even if the difference is a bit off in places, it shouldn't be so drastic as to make you throw your hands up, and from what I'm seeing so far, it's isn't -- and that's just with one AP!

So, lets get the rest of the APs in-place and broadcasting, then re-test -- that's when you'll see dBm levels start to become universally better with the EAP245 readings (as you'll be closer to one of the APs than you will to just the Nighthawk), and consequently, should see improved throughput in the places of the house furthest from the TV nook.

For the backyard, given the above paradigm, you may simply need to run an EAP225-Outdoor, either mounted to the outside eve, or to some fencing or a pole out on the deck or in the yard, to get requisite signal to clients out there.

Distributed, multi-AP wifi is a different game than the over-amplified, all-in-one blast-fest that you've been used to.

 

[lardo5150]

So, lets get the rest of the APs in-place and broadcasting, then re-test -- that's when you'll see dBm levels start to become universally better with the EAP245 readings (as you'll be closer to one of the APs than you will to just the Nighthawk), and consequently, should see improved throughput in the places of the house furthest from the TV nook.

You got it. Give me a few days, and I will report back.
I have everything except for my punch tool, that should be here Tuesday or Wednesday.
Once that shows up I will get everything in place and report back.

Thanks Trip

 

[lardo5150]

Quick update, as I was going to start with my wife's office...
when I got up in the crawl space, they way they built the two floors, I MIGHT be running into a wall structure that I can't reach, to drill a hole.
If that happens, I will have to go with Possible AP2 scenario in the picture below. It is in the garage, close to the wall next to the hallway.
I can actually move it some more back and closer to the wall, but just threw it up there for now to test.
Going to see if I can run the wire in the office, if not, it will have to go here I guess.

omada diagram first floor

 

[lardo5150]

Using Speedtest and wifi analyzer, I get the following results:

Sitting at my wife's desk:
2.5ghz 55mb download/-54dBm
5ghz 295mb download / -66dBm

Out front with my cameras
cam1 71mb download / -38dBM and 296mb download / -45dBm
cam2 35mb download / -56dBm and 340 mb download / -65dBm

 

[Trip]

Alternate AP2 placement should work well enough; signal levels all look decent. If you really want to hit both your wife's office and the next cameras well enough, you might consider placing AP2 in the back of your wife's office, by the pantry or kitchen, if that's not beyond the blockade, then run another EAP245 (or EAP225) in the garage, center-mounted on the ceiling, to serve the two front Nest cams and any users in the driveway.

Regarding the speeds your seeing, versus those you're hoping to see, after a couple hundred Mb/s, honestly, it's kind of splitting hairs. You certainly tend to do no better in improving the three metrics that actually matter more for most normal usage: latency, jitter and packet loss. I can't remember if I've recommended this article to you yet, but for more of a complete understanding of what you can realistic "expect" with wifi these days, see this Duckware article. It's a heavy read, but tries to be layman-friendly, and serves as an excellent education piece.

And note on 4x4 APs, don't feel like you need to junk what you've bought in favor of them; usually, enough well-placed 2x2 (EAP225) or 3x3 (EAP245) APs will deliver quite enough signal, as I'm already seeing by your numbers.

 

[lardo5150]

So I am setup.
So far everything seems great.
I could not get my Google Mini Homes to connect to 5ghz. Not sure what the deal was. They connected to 2ghz no problem.
We just use them for music, or broadcasting a message inside the house, so 2ghz is fine. Not worth the trouble to troubleshoot right now. Maybe this weekend.

Everything seems good.
From my previous post...

Sitting at my wife's desk:
2.5ghz 55mb download/-54dBm
5ghz 295mb download / -66dBm

Out front with my cameras
cam1 71mb download / -38dBM and 296mb download / -45dBm
cam2 35mb download / -56dBm and 340 mb download / -65dBm

with that in mind, the ONLY issue I am having right now is my furthest front Nest Camera.
I had a hard time getting it to connect to 5ghz. I opened the garage door, and it finally connected.
Now, I am getting camera offline here and there, and pulling up the picture is taking forever.
Strange because the numbers above were from when the garage door was closed.
I did just upgrade the firmware on these final two APs, so I will monitor this camera.
But, in the case this does not work correctly, I am considering putting an EAP225-Outdoor on the other side of the house by that camera? My fear of moving AP2 from the wall in the garage (wall closest to my wife's office) will diminish signal strength/speed/stability for my wife's work laptop in the office. Thoughts on this?

I did have to put the AP2 in the garage. I could not get past that wall from the attic. Huge PIA.
Upstairs all is good (except the Google Minis on 5ghz). Nintendo Switch during network test got like 500MB down on 5ghz, so I am happy. I think before I was getting like 30 to 90 mb!!

I kept AP1 behind the TV. I can't find a ladder that will put me up in the ceiling. If I find one, I may move it.

Here is what I ended up with that seems to be working nicely for my wife's laptop in the office and all my Nest Cameras except that one, which I am monitoring after firmware upgrade. All three are now on 2.4.0 Build 20200117 Rel. 39932
Also, red dots are my cameras, blue dot is the potential spot for the EAP225-Outdoor.





I have fast roaming enabled. Mesh was enable for some reason, so I disabled that.
I have left the APs at default for now...







Band Steering is disabled.

 

[lardo5150]

After firmware update, the furthest Camera seems to be doing good.

Will keep checking it this week.