Orbi router and satellite use the same channels

[wireshock]

Hi all,

I am considering buying an Orbi kit, but I am seriously concerned that both the router and satellite use the same frequency channels for client connections. You can choose a channel (in the 2.4G and 5G bands) in the router config, but the satellite will then work on the same exact channels. This makes no sense to me. I really doubt that the router and satellite somehow cooperate on the same frequency; more likely they act as two individual access points and interfere with each other. (And different clients connected to them also jam each other.) I'm curious what others think about this.

 

[pege63]

Router to SAT have a dedicated 5GHz backhaul with its own CH that is not seen.

 

[wireshock]

I know that. I was talking specifically about the client connection channels, what Netgear calls "fronthaul".

 

[pege63]

The units will work as one unit (SSID)

 

[thiggins]

Access points operating on the same channel do not "interfere" or "jam" each other. The listen-before-talk mechanisms built into 802.11 ensure that the two APs don't step on each other.

I confirmed that my Orbi system uses the same 2.4 and 5 GHz channels for clients. Since the 5 GHz backhaul is completely independent, it doesn't have to be this way. I'll ask NETGEAR why.

That said, I wouldn't let this stop you from buying Orbi. It's the best performing of the Distributed Wi-Fi Systems currently available.

 

[thiggins]

The units will work as one unit (SSID)

Same SSID can be used for APs on different channels.

 

[Chairman007]

orbi simply works ... stable, strong & far reaching signal.

 

[pege63]

Yes 1, 6, 11 for 2.4GHz and 36, 51, 100 for 5GHz as a non-overlapping example on a 3 set.
Screenshots on the GUI.

 

[wireshock]

Access points operating on the same channel do not "interfere" or "jam" each other. The listen-before-talk mechanisms built into 802.11 ensure that the two APs don't step on each other.

Hmm, I thought that the listen-before-talk mechanism is for the clients associated to an AP, but different APs operating on the same channel ignore and jam each other, even if they have the same SSID. I'm not sure about this though, so I'll read up.

 

[pete y testing]

it also should be noted that as long as the nodes are not overlapping each other too much there should be no interference between them as far as the client is concerned

over at the netgear forum we are seeing a lot of complaints that are generally because they are using the orbi system too close together and that becomes an issue for the clients and roaming

i have a 3500sft house and the single orbi router and 1 sat covers the entire thing with ease , the second sat when connected just made things worse as it was a case of too much of a good thing

 

[wireshock]

Alright, I stand corrected. I did some reading and figured multiple APs with the same SSID on the same channel is OK. Although, having the router and the satellite on different channels would increase overcall capacity and prevent a little bit of interference resulting from distant stations not hearing each other, in theory. Then again, there simply aren't enough channels for two APs to support 40MHz in the 2.4GHz band or 80MHz in the 5GHz band. Besides, I suspect seamless roaming might be easier to implement in a consumer system if the APs use the same channel, though it works fine in large enterprise WLANs with many APs using different channels.

 

[pege63]

40MHz on 2.4GHz band channels interferes with neighborhoods WiFi, also reduces the available interference free channels for Bluetooth.

 

[pete y testing]

its why most routers have obss coexistence to drop the ch back to 20mhz if interference occours

 

[pege63]

Yes exactly, hear, hear.

 

[wireshock]

Well, all valid points. But, I still think that the option to use different channels would be beneficial, especially in the 5GHz band. It would increase the system capacity and prevent the issues arising from distant stations not hearing each other on the same channel (like the satellite not hearing a far-away client associated to the router).

Also, the suggestion for not too much overlap between the router and the satellite is a double-edged sword: the less there is overlap, the weaker the backhaul connection.

 

[wireshock]

I've been looking through the user manual and I don't see an option to select the 20MHz or 40MHz mode in either the 2.4GHz or 5GHz band. Netgear routers usually let you do this by selecting the speed along with the channel, like 130 or 300 for 802.11n. The only related option I see is to enable or disable 20/40 coexistence. What does this mean? Does Orbi just default to "fat channels", unless prevented by the coexistence mechanism? I'd really like to have more control over this.

 

[thiggins]

I'd really like to have more control over this.

User control in DWS products runs counter to their key selling point that the user doesn't need to mess with Wi-Fi controls.

40MHz channels in general should not be used in areas with many adjacent networks. They cause more problems than they solve.

 

[wireshock]

User control in DWS products runs counter to their key selling point that the user doesn't need to mess with Wi-Fi controls.

True for the other mesh solutions that came out over the last year, but Orbi is a little more like the traditional Netgear products, based on the same firmware platform and user interface. In any case, they took out this one option from the basic wireless settings page while leaving all the others. Oh, and I can still mess with CTS/RTS threshold and preamble mode.

40MHz channels in general should not be used in areas with many adjacent networks. They cause more problems than they solve.

I agree, which is why I'd like to have the option to disable 40MHz. Alas, the option is not there.

 

[pete y testing]

I agree, which is why I'd like to have the option to disable 40MHz. Alas, the option is not there.

but obss co existence is there and automatically forces 2.4 gig to 20 mhz

 

[wireshock]

but obss co existence is there and automatically forces 2.4 gig to 20 mhz

Assuming it works like it's supposed to, which you know is not always the case. Besides, someone may want to use 20Mhz even if there are no other networks around. It has its own benefits.
Also, I think I've seen an Orbi router status screenshot somewhere that indicated it was doing 80MHz in the 5GHz band. The channel selection in the user interface simply controls which channel is the primary one, but it will use all four (36-48) anyway.