Orbi router and satellite use the same channels

[thiggins]

Orbi uses 80 MHz channels for both client connect and backhaul.

NETGEAR confirmed that the same 5 GHz channel is used for client connect on both router and satellite. They said this makes it easier for some clients to smoothly roam.

After thinking about this, however, there is also a more obvious explanation. Since backhaul uses all four 5 GHz high-band channels and DFS channels are not supported, there are no other channels available to use!

 

[wireshock]

Orbi uses 80 MHz channels for both client connect and backhaul.

NETGEAR confirmed that the same 5 GHz channel is used for client connect on both router and satellite. They said this makes it easier for some clients to smoothly roam.

After thinking about this, however, there is also a more obvious explanation. Since backhaul uses all four 5 GHz high-band channels and DFS channels are not supported, there are no other channels available to use!

Yes. So, sounds like we are forced to use fat and "obese" channels, whether we like it or not.

By the way, I think the 20/40 coexistence toggle appears under the 2.4GHz band advanced settings. What about the 5GHz band? Does the setting actually apply to both the bands as 20/40/80 coexistence? Or the hope is that 5GHz doesn't propagate far enough to cause issues? Really curious behind the logic for all this.

 

[pete y testing]

What about the 5GHz band?

i believe its only part of the standard for 2.4 gig because it can be an issue house to house

until now 5 gig hasnt needed it because of the lower coverage but that has changed so not sure what they will do in the future for 5 gig friendly neighborhoods

 

[RogerSC]

Orbi uses 80 MHz channels for both client connect and backhaul.

NETGEAR confirmed that the same 5 GHz channel is used for client connect on both router and satellite. They said this makes it easier for some clients to smoothly roam.

After thinking about this, however, there is also a more obvious explanation. Since backhaul uses all four 5 GHz high-band channels and DFS channels are not supported, there are no other channels available to use!

Yep, client channels take up the lower channels, backhaul takes the upper ones. None left on 5GHz.

 

[pege63]

The backhaul CH is 157 80MHz (149+153+157+161), that would be in the new channel naming convention CH155.

 

[pete y testing]

interestingly i have seen my backhaul on ch 106 or at least what i believe is the backhaul as its a hidden ssid

 

[thiggins]

interestingly i have seen my backhaul on ch 106 or at least what i believe is the backhaul as its a hidden ssid

It's possible DFS channels are supported outside the U.S.

 

[thiggins]

i believe its only part of the standard for 2.4 gig because it can be an issue house to house

That is incorrect.
20/40 coexistence is used in 2.4 GHz because there are only 3 non overlapping channels. So it is possible to have an adjacent network that on a channel that effectively looks like noise, defeating Wi-Fi's CSMA/CA mechanism.

All 5 GHz channels do not overlap. Traffic on all channels can be properly decoded and coordinated.

 

[thiggins]

After doing some research (it's always good to get facts), I once again found Matt Gast's book an invaluable reference.

802.11ac does indeed have a mechanism to avoid stepping on 802.11a and 11n networks operating with 20 and 40 MHz bandwidths.

11ac supports a dynamic channel bandwidth mechanism as part of its Request to Send/Clear to Send (RTS/CTS) exchange. 11ac APs can switch among 20, 40 and 80 MHz bandwidth operation on a frame-by-frame basis.

 

[pete y testing]

So it is possible to have an adjacent network that on a channel that effectively looks like noise

lol i thought that is what i said , maybe it just came out wrong

802.11ac does indeed have a mechanism

interesting how does that effect day to day usage with 5 gig ac clients or is it only to accommodate A and N , tried to read the link but it all gets a bit scientific although being dynamic it sounds like it does these changes on the run so to speak

 

[pege63]

Here is a good information

You can also learn more reading online 802.11ac: A Survival Guide

 

[sfx2000]

40MHz channels in general should not be used in areas with many adjacent networks. They cause more problems than they solve.

With the DWS products - the default should be 20MHz channels, lest they interfere with the other nodes inside the ESS...

That was kind of my point in the Orbi thread, where there wasn't a choice in the earlier FW revisions that were tested by SNB on the main side.

 

[sfx2000]

interesting how does that effect day to day usage with 5 gig ac clients or is it only to accommodate A and N , tried to read the link but it all gets a bit scientific although being dynamic it sounds like it does these changes on the run so to speak

11ac gets along really well with 11n/11a actually...

Much better than in the b/g/n space - and then we have vendors trying to do 11ac in that band (2.4GHz) which can and often does, cause problems...

Enough so that the recent drivers for the Asus USB-AC56 on Win10 - they have a switch in the advanced settings to enable/disable non-broadcom VHT 2.4G (specific setting is VHT 2.4 G - selections are Disable/Enable/Not Support Broadcom Vendor)

 

[wireshock]

So, from everything above, it really sounds like NETGEAR has made the best choices for how Orbi uses all the available spectrum. (I hope that 20/40 coexistence in 2.4G works well.) Still wish they let the user choose the channel widths and allowed the DFS channels in NA, but at least all my concerns have been alleviated.

 

[RogerSC]

Well, my Orbi is currently only using 40MHz. channel on 2.4GHz. band with "20/40MHz. coexistence" enabled, and I have lots of neighboring networks. I'm not happy with that, but there's nothing I can do except stop using it. I'm not quite there yet *smile*. I opened an issue with Netgear about it, and after months of waiting, including kicking it to development, this is the answer that I get:

As we all know, 20/40 coexist really depends on user's network condition. Meaning the other neighboring APs around him. His network environment may not have any other APs that advertise itself to run HT20 mode only.

From wireless standard, other APs will have "HT40 intolerant" but being set as informing other neighbor APs that it does not allow operation in HT40 bandwidth. In such case, the behavior is correct.

The other way to put that is that Netgear's not going to do anything. You can't turn off 2.4GHz. band, and you can't control the channel width that's used. So that's that.

 

[Chairman007]

Interesting post on r/orbi where a user modified his orbi to provide separate SSID's ...

HOWTO: Configure different SSIDs for 2.4 and 5Ghz networks https://www.reddit.com/r/orbi/comme...sids_for_24_and_5ghz/?st=IYYRQT9Y&sh=36e50985

 

[RogerSC]

Well, my Orbi is currently only using 40MHz. channel on 2.4GHz. band with "20/40MHz. coexistence" enabled, and I have lots of neighboring networks. I'm not happy with that, but there's nothing I can do except stop using it. I'm not quite there yet *smile*. I opened an issue with Netgear about it, and after months of waiting, including kicking it to development, this is the answer that I get:

As we all know, 20/40 coexist really depends on user's network condition. Meaning the other neighboring APs around him. His network environment may not have any other APs that advertise itself to run HT20 mode only.

From wireless standard, other APs will have "HT40 intolerant" but being set as informing other neighbor APs that it does not allow operation in HT40 bandwidth. In such case, the behavior is correct.

The other way to put that is that Netgear's not going to do anything. You can't turn off 2.4GHz. band, and you can't control the channel width that's used. So that's that.

Okay, solved my problem using the Gordian Knot method. Disabled the 2.4GHz. wireless band, hadn't noticed that you can do that. The only change that I had to make was to put my wifi printer on ethernet wireless bridge instead of wifi, and everything's cool and groovy. My neighbors can use 2.4GHz. without my interference *smile*.