OT - surviving pandemic from personal experience (no trolling, PLEASE)

[Val D.]

What do you guys believe? Can the world co-operate or is patent and money more important?

I personally believe all major players and investors in big pharmaceutical companies have to be given a death sentence, because the personal financial wealth they have accumulated over years is solely based on unfair pricing and dealing with hope. What Shkreli did in US is actually happening every day with common life-saving medications. He was just bold/stupid enough to draw too much attention.

 

[plun]

We also have major pharmaceutical players in China (Wuhan), can they co-operate with US pharmaceutical companys? (Also in Sweden we have big companys.)

Also we have all genies around the world and it's for me rather incomprehensible that we have no good anti viral drug for the moment.

 

[Val D.]

Also we have all genies around the world and it's for me rather incomprehensible that we have no good anti viral drug for the moment.

There is no universal anti-viral drug and no universal antibiotic.

 

[plun]

There is no universal anti-viral drug and no universal antibiotic.

Well, that's the big enigma for myself.... we solved HIV/AIDS and Ebola with anti viral drugs.

(so back to patents and if it can be a problem)

 

[Val D.]

... we solved HIV/AIDS and Ebola with anti viral drugs.

The main problem here is the fact there is no "we". People in many parts of the World die every day from common diseases just because well known common medications are not available to them. When 10.000 people die in a developed country this is an enormous tragedy. When 10.000 people die in India in a flood it's OK, we don't even hear about it. There is no "we", my friend. Politics, money and power is above everything. It was like this thousands of years ago, it's no different today.

 

[RMerlin]

We also have major pharmaceutical players in China (Wuhan), can they co-operate with US pharmaceutical companys? (Also in Sweden we have big companys.)

Now is not the time to grab your ball and go home. We'll need a world-wide effort to get out of this situation.

 

[RMerlin]

Well, that's the big enigma for myself.... we solved HIV/AIDS and Ebola with anti viral drugs.

Coronaviruses like Covid-19 and SARS do not necessarily operate the same way that HIV or Ebola do. Each virus family is quite unique, and will have a different impact on the human body, in how they produce antibodies, how easily they can spread, and so on.

I wouldn't say we solved HIV. We still haven't found a reliable cure for instance. There were news a few weeks ago of a patient apparently being virus-free now, however the testing methodology has been put in question (too short period of time to validate that the patient was TRULY healed, no double validation/blind test, and so on).

 

[plun]

The main problem here is the fact there is no "we". People in many parts of the World die every day from common diseases just because well known common medications are not available to them. When 10.000 people die in a developed country this is an enormous tragedy. When 10.000 people die in India in a flood it's OK, we don't even hear about it. There is no "we", my friend. Politics, money and power is above everything. It was like this thousands of years ago, it's no different today.

With "we" I meant our common pharmaceutical genius and it¨s sad that you also writes that "Politics, money and power is above everything" BUT must it be so??

 

[plun]

Coronaviruses like Covid-19 and SARS do not necessarily operate the same way that HIV or Ebola do. Each virus family is quite unique, and will have a different impact on the human body, in how they produce antibodies, how easily they can spread, and so on.

I wouldn't say we solved HIV. We still haven't found a reliable cure for instance. There were news a few weeks ago of a patient apparently being virus-free now, however the testing methodology has been put in question (too short period of time to validate that the patient was TRULY healed, no double validation/blind test, and so on).

HIV is solved for 99,9% of all patients. At least in Sweden. But this is not the point, the point is the total silence from anti viral drugs for Covid-19, very strange, imho.

 

[Val D.]

must it be so??

HIV is solved for 99,9% of all patients. At least in Sweden.

See? You just answered your own question. What about HIV in Africa?

I know we can't fix the World, but we can do some small things to help in our own way. A year education of a kid in South India is about $500, in a good school, with good school supplies... gives a little better chance for this kid to get a slightly better life. Next time Apple releases the new iPhone for $2000, think about that kid for a second before you think how badly you want the new iPhone. You can change someone's life with no much efforts, but only if you want to. As I said earlier in this thread, I found my own ways.

 

[plun]

See? You just answered your own question. What about HIV in Africa?

I know we can't fix the World, but we can do some small things to help in our own way. A year education of a kid in South India is about $500, in a good school, with good school supplies... gives a little better chance for this kid to get a slightly better life. Next time Apple releases the new iPhone for $2000, think about that kid for a second before you think how badly you want the new iPhone. You can change someone's life with no much efforts, but only if you want to. As I said earlier in this thread, I found my own ways.

Well.... this is the situation

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Over and out! (a mystery that we still haven't a antiviral drug)

 

[RMerlin]

the total silence from anti viral drugs for Covid-19

That virus was first discovered only a few months ago. These things take time, and I disagree when you say it`s total silence. Johnson & Johnson for instance already announced this week they were going to start clinical studies this autumn.

Also, there has never been a successful vaccine against viruses of the coronavirus family. So the only work that can be used as a starting point is what was done during the original SARS epidemic.

Developing a vaccine takes time. You have to isolate the virus itself, also typically you have to isolate the antibodies that are generated by it, so you can study them. You have to figure out a way to generate something that is inactive, yet close enough to the original virus as to trigger the generation of antibodies.

Once you've got all of this, you need to produce this inactive agent, and start testing, which requires weeks, if not months of testing and data gathering.

And after all of this, IF you have a working product, you need to start mass manufacturing, then distributing, which can also take months.

In the J&J case for instance, they say their initial test to select one of multiple likely candidates took 12 weeks (they started working on it back in January).

I regularly see news about initial developments in this area. It just takes time. Going through the whole process is expected to take at best 8-12 months, more realistic estimates talk about 12-18 months.

 

[Val D.]

more realistic estimates talk about 12-18 months.

Correct, and the only hope for faster resolution is to find beneficial effects in drugs we already have approved for something else.

 

[heysoundude]

If the US decide not to playball with China because of their current commercial restrictions, then I'm sure the rest of the world will gladly collaborate with China.

The US government seems to be hell bent on alienating the rest of the world. <SNIP>
We'll need a world-wide effort to get out of this situation.

This is war. And the little people, as always, are feeling the brunt:
It’s not just the US. A good portion of the Western Bloc/G10+ are being duplicitous with China re:trade/global commerce; we want the cheap stuff fast, but we don’t want their tech that likely would bust open our data network logjam since this virus forced us all home (5G).

The oil price war between Russia and the Kingdom of Saud was the financial attack meant to distract us, and seems likely to have succeeded by causing just enough additional chaos. (Which may be why it seems to be resolving so quickly)

Is it just me, or has anyone else had these suspicions/thoughts/insights? I feel we’re at the beginning of a paradigm shift. The victors will give us their version when they write the history of this time.

<flamesuit on>


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[thiggins]

Folks, you are off into politics again. That's not a topic of discussion here.

@Val D. No more statements like "deserve a death sentence" or you will be banned.
How about discussing some of the positive things that are happening?

The kindness and generosity that many are showing. Everyone who is risking their personal safety to care for patients, work the food pantries and other feeding stations.

 

[dave14305]

I was walking with my wife in our neighborhood last night, and before COVID-19, it would be considered rude to cross the street to avoid oncoming pedestrians. Now it’s a sign of respect and consideration. But I still give a smile and greeting because I still feel odd crossing the street, as if everyone is a leper.

 

[OzarkEdge]

I was walking with my wife in our neighborhood last night, and before COVID-19, it would be considered rude to cross the street to avoid oncoming pedestrians. Now it’s a sign of respect and consideration. But I still give a smile and greeting because I still feel odd crossing the street, as if everyone is a leper.

I asked my neighbor permission to pet her cool dog. I was a bit concerned about me, but mostly I didn't want to cross some boundary that concerned her. The dog didn't mind at all!

OE

 

[OzarkEdge]

The kindness and generosity that many are showing.

The moron in the White House ordered 3M to stop shipping N95 masks to 'foreigners' like Canada. Unpack that!

OE

 

[heysoundude]

The moron in the White House ordered 3M to stop shipping N95 masks to 'foreigners' like Canada. Unpack that!

OE

@OzarkEdge Not to worry: we can cut off the wood pulp necessary to make the masks so he won’t have to worry about having anything to not send. We can use it ourselves.

@thiggins It’s all good sir; please leave it be: this discussion absolutely can’t not get political - when bad things happen to people, they look to those whom they put their trust in for support, reassurance, answers, hope, guidance. I’m not sure where you are in this world, but here in North America (the current epicentre of the pandemic), we have the leader of the free world not acting like it, thinking that world goes no further than his borders, while Rome burns around him (to mix a bunch of metaphors), all to keep his orange butt in office. Mice might play while the cat is away, but right now he’s right where he should be and many of the mice are having helmet fires and asking themselves “WTF?” Because they’re not getting what they’ve been accustomed to or expecting from their ultimate source...except maybe the streetfight tactics, which they fear will lead them to an unseemly/untimely demise or fall from whatever pinnacle in disgrace. This ain’t no disease, it’s a paradigm shift, and those tend to make people uneasy at the very least. So if you don’t wish to permit that on your forums, you can do what you feel is right, but I’d be happy people are choosing to gather and discuss under my roof.


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[Butterfly Bones]

I asked my neighbor permission to pet her cool dog. I was a bit concerned about me, but mostly I didn't want to cross some boundary that concerned her. The dog didn't mind at all!

OE

As dog lover currently without one, I have been asked by neighbors not to pet their dogs for now, hard on the dogs and me.

I did some research and their is no evidence that the covid-19 virus can be transferred by different people petting a dog. Still we have to honor our neighbors near and far safety.