Please help me choose the right switch!

[Bart]

Hi Guys,

I’m going to start building a house this year. I will implement a lot of home automation into this house. The home automation software I have chose is very open and IP based. So essentially all home automation commands and data, ranging from light buttons, power outlets, temperature sensors, light sensors, movement sensors, access control, video surveilance,… will be sent over a classical wired network.

I’ve chosen Cat6 as the wireing since it relatively cheap and still future proof enough for the upcoming years.

I want to implement a Gigabit ethernet network throughout the entire house (even though the home automation software only needs 100 Mbit, but since this wil only be one part of the entire network, I figure I’d use Gigabit all the way)

The house will have about 16 locations (upstairs and downstairs) which will all have (at least) two wired connectors fitted into the wall.

Throughout the house four or five panel PC’s will be fitted into the walls. The panel PC’s are essentially low power PC’s (but complete PC’s nonetheless), running on VIA CPU’s or maybe Intel Celerons. They are passively cooled and only contain a small harddrive (I might even use compactflash cards as the harddrive, not sure about that yet). There will also be central server where not only the home automation software will run on, but which will also be used as video and audio server, print server and regular file server (hence the wish for Gigabit ethernet). The home automation software has been built in such a way that one server is the master server, and all the panel PC’s are slaves. Should, for any reason, the master server drop out, one of the Panel PC’s will take over and then act as the main server. Should that Panel PC also drop out (unlikely, unless there is a total power outage), another Panel PC will take over, etc…

For the main server I plan to put a 4U rackmount case together (Antec Take4) and put this into a small cabinet. Other things I will need of course are a decent router (already decided – Draytek), a decent rack mount UPS unit (not decided on that one yet) and a good switch. Because I’ll need at least 32 connections, I’m not sure yet if I’ll use a 48 port switch or two 24 port switches (= one downstairs and one upstairs… this could be easier when it comes to troubleshooting).

My main problem is which switch I should choose. Initially I was going for the HP Procurve 1800 series, which seems to be an excellent switch for the money it costs. That was, until I read about the fact this switch does not seem to support Spanning Tree Protocol (STP) which ends up in broadcast storms over the network in case your want to use the Sonos music system (which I do!). This seems to be the fault of the switch, and as far as I can see or even read, the ONLY downside of the switch so far… bummer!

Maybe I could use the Procurve 1400 series instead, but that’s an unmanaged switch series. Not that this really matters a whole lot, I’m sure it will work, it’s just that I’ve never had the chance to tinker with managed switches and I was kind of looking forward to this. I've already looked at Linksys are D-link as well, but it seems to me all their switches are...well, not very good... Another reason I was going for the ProCurve 1800 is because it's a fanless switch. I am going to install all this stuff into a cabinet, but still it would be nice to keep this cabinet as mute as possible. This is also one of the main reasons I'm going with the Antec case.

So here’s the question: which switch would you recommend? Obviously the Procurve 2900-48G would do nicely, but that’s a but overkill I fear. . Would an unmanaged switch suffice, or would it be best (for my use) to use a managed switch? Would it be a good idea to use VLAN’s or not? I welcome any input I can get.

I’ve also got a side question. I’ve leaned everything I know about networks by myself. I also don’t work in the IT business, so sometimes it’s hard for me to keep up when it get really technical/theoretical. I’ve already messed with a lot of ‘home’ and ‘small bussiness’ hardware (which is probably why I also like this site so much), but once it reaches a certain ‘professional threshhold’ I’m in the dark. Could someone please explain a few tings to me? What is the difference between layer 2 and layer 3 switches. I know this is based on the OSI model, and that layer two switches are cheaper and faster, and only use MAC addresses to do their switching, where layer 3 switches base themsevelves upon IP addresses… but what I really want to know is where this difference comes in. (a router is level 3, right?). When do you use one type of switch and when do you use the other?
Again, all input is much welcomed.

 

[thiggins]

I'm sure you'll get some good feedback, Bart, from the other Forum members.

The HP ProCurves are nice products with good value. You might take a look at the Dell switches, they sometimes offer sales/rebates that can make the prices quite attractive.

I haven't used the Sonos' but I think the broadcast storms might be caused by using both wireless and wired network connections at the same time. But you have to keep the wireless on in order to use the remote, right?

You have the correct basic understanding of the difference between Layer 2 and 3 switches, i.e. Layer 2 operates on MAC addresses, Layer 3 IP addresses.

The difference between a router and some of today's Layer 3 switches can get pretty fuzzy. But, really, Layer 3 switches are overkill for your application. They really are needed only when you get into large networks where you need to control traffic among subnets.

 

[scotty]

Agreed, a L3 switch would be overkill. Essentially, Layer 3 switches tend to support a lot of the networking protocols that routers do, and typically aren't needed until many of those are in use. Any of the HP's you've been looking at would be a pretty strong switch for your home.

The procurves though are probably my personal favorite. Although I find it odd, if you really need STP you might want to look at the 2500 series, like a 2524. I just bought a 2524 for about $450, which is similar in price to the others you were eyeing up. But again, you might want to re-check what your Sonos system works - I find it odd that it would need STP.

 

[Bart]

Thanks for your responses so far!

Scotty, I may be mistaken, but is the ProCurve 2500 series not a 100 Mbit series instead of Gigabit? I really need the switch to be Gigabit.

But again, you might want to re-check what your Sonos system works - I find it odd that it would need STP.

This is indeed the reason why the 1800 series does not work. Just follow the links I provided in my initial post. One of those links leads to the FAQ pages on the Sonos website stating the 1800 series is not compatible with their products. (for the STP reason)


Cheers!

 

[Brandon]

With a good layer 2 switch you really don't need a router, just a decent gateway device (Like a firewall).

I would definitly look into the Dell switches, I think a set of decent layer 2 switches will more than fit your needs.

Spanning tree is a bit much for what you're wanting, it's really ment for people with quite a few switches. Spanning tree shows you the best possible path to your router device, or to the device it's looking for. If you only have three or four switches, it really only has one way to go. STP might actually slow your network more than it would help.

I would suggest a good firewall/router device as you are putting a lot onto your home network. The more you depend on it, the safter you will want it to be.

My suggestion on a good network setup:

Firewall ---- Layer2/3 6/16 port Smart Switch
| | |
Wireless Access Point Equpment Switch PC/Cat-5/6 cable switch

Sorry for the crude drawing, but you get the idea. This would allow you to VLan off of the main switch, giving you access to what you need, and lowering the overall traffic. A good dumb switch (layer 1) would more than suffice for PC cabling, you might want a good layer2 smart-switch to handle the home enhancement equpment.

If you want to run a switch to another part of your house, most mid range smart-switches also support Fibre, which will be costly, but offers the best proformance, and overall best proformance over time.

Hope this is what you needed!

 

[Brandon]

The procurves though are probably my personal favorite. Although I find it odd, if you really need STP you might want to look at the 2500 series, like a 2524. I just bought a 2524 for about $450, which is similar in price to the others you were eyeing up. But again, you might want to re-check what your Sonos system works - I find it odd that it would need STP.

Ack, see, I'm on the cheap side, I have a Layer3 switch, but it resides in my DMZ, not to mention it's over a decade old (Catalyst 2924). I use it for a self-contained environment on my network, allowing for my 2003 server to assign DHCP, using Cisco DHCP relay, also keeping it off of the DMZ.

With layer3, you're really paying for equpment you won't need, and will more than likely have to pay someone to setup.

Layer 3 gets into differnt formats of RIP (Routing Information Protocol) like OSPF, EIGRP, IGRP, and IS-IS. All of these are for specific network designs, most of which have 10-20+ layer3 switches.

 

[scotty]

Your right, the 2524 is only 10/100, forgot about your need for GigE for a minute there.

I had a look on that sonos website and I dont think you need STP. I think there's just some minor imcompatibility with the 1800 series switches and their devices. Maybe STP is the fix, but I'm pretty sure you don't need it otherwise. STP is more intended to hook up multiple switches to each other and use multiple connections for speed and/or redundancy. Even if you were running 2 or 3 of these switches throughout your home, I wouldn't see the need for STP. It's just a very specific incompatibility with that series of switch. I think the 1400 series will work great for your application. Although you are doing music streaming and obviously other misc data, that still doesn't represent a massive amount of data going over the wire.

I say go with something in the 1400 series. Like Brandon says, L3 switches are using a lot of protocols which you're not even coming close to using in a home environment. And just because it's not a smart switch doesn't mean it's not a good switch. It's still a fair bit better than the el-cheapos you find out the for <$100 (read: Linksys). Going with a higher end L3 switch in a home environment is like buying a Ferarri and only driving it in school zones all day.

Brandon's network layout more or less is right on the mark as to what you're wanting.

 

[Foggy_UK]

Bart, I can high recommend the Linksys 24 port SRW2024 (48 port SRW2048) business switch range. i use the 24 port SRW2024 along with a Draytek2800 adsl router in my home production network. I use a digital CCTV triplex recorder on the network and did have issues with muticast traffic swamping the network which was fixed by vlan management on the switch. I also use the two fiber ports on the switch to route traffic to my cisco layer3 switching lab and my router lab with spanning tree in use on the swtching lab.

Phill.

 

[Bart]

Spanning tree is a bit much for what you're wanting, it's really ment for people with quite a few switches. Spanning tree shows you the best possible path to your router device, or to the device it's looking for. If you only have three or four switches, it really only has one way to go. STP might actually slow your network more than it would help.

I have to be honest here: I myself have no idea what STP is or does. I base my info on the Sonos website itself, but also on the feedback given by customers when they buy at NewEgg (very handy infoo sometimes). One of the users has this to say about the ProCurve 1800 (and I quote)

"For some strange reason, the implementers chose not to support Spanning Tree Protocol (STP) at all, and did this by filtering out all BPDU packets. This causes any STP enabled devices (in my case, the Sonos music system) to create broadcast storms. This is a fault of the switch, not the Sonos product. I'm unsure as to why HP took an otherwise great switch and crippled it in this way. I wanted to like this switch, but now find myself needing to replace it because of the afore mentioned issue. Other than the STP issue, it's a fine piece of hardware."

My suggestion on a good network setup:

Firewall ---- Layer2/3 6/16 port Smart Switch
| | |
Wireless Access Point Equpment Switch PC/Cat-5/6 cable switch

Sorry for the crude drawing, but you get the idea. This would allow you to VLan off of the main switch, giving you access to what you need, and lowering the overall traffic. A good dumb switch (layer 1) would more than suffice for PC cabling, you might want a good layer2 smart-switch to handle the home enhancement equipment.

I'm sorry, but I don't really understand. So you're supposing a smart switch with a dumb switch attached to it? Like this:

Internet -> Router -> Smart Switch (managed?) -> Dumb Switch (unmanaged?)

I'm not really 'in the know' yet about the benefits of VLANning. What would be the specific benefit for me in my setup?

The setup I had in mind would be like this:

Internet -> Router (Draytek Vigor 2820n WiFi) -> HP Procurve 1400 -> HP Procurve 1400

The reason I'm daisy-chaining the two switches to each other is because sadly the Draytek router only has one Gigabit port available (and three 100 Mbit ports).

On the other hand, this has got me thinking. The panel PC's I will be using only offer 100 Mbit, not Gigabit. Maybe it would be a good idea to keep the Home Automation system separated from the rest of the network. I suppose I could do this by using a ProCurve from the 2500 series which would then be used only for the Domotica. Hmmm....

Would the 1400 series suffice, or would it be better to use a Smart Switch like the 1800 series anyway? (I guess this is my biggest debate right now...)

 

[Bart]

Bart, I can high recommend the Linksys 24 port SRW2024 (48 port SRW2048) business switch range. i use the 24 port SRW2024 along with a Draytek2800 adsl router in my home production network. I use a digital CCTV triplex recorder on the network and did have issues with muticast traffic swamping the network which was fixed by vlan management on the switch. I also use the two fiber ports on the switch to route traffic to my cisco layer3 switching lab and my router lab with spanning tree in use on the swtching lab.

Phill.

Hi Phil,

I've read some very mixed reviews about that specific Linksys switch. Some love it, others seem to hate it and the number of them not doing what they are supposed to do seems to be pretty high. I must be honest: I've never been a big Linksys fan. They may be owned by Cisco now, but I don't think they are up the same quality standard level already (or even in the same league). To be frank, I've always wondered why Cisco even bothered with them. I'm sure they could have bought a different company which produced home/small business hardware of which the track record was better.

I do agree with your choice of router. For me it's also Draytek all the way. The best routers I've ever used. In my opinion they only have one downside: they still come with a 100 Mbit switch instead of Gigabit. (some now have one Gigabit port like the forementioned 2820 range). If Draytek would see to that, they would easily be number one in my book.

Could you elaborate a bit more on that multicast traffic swamping? What did you experience then? (I have no experience with this kind of stuff and since I want to implement some form of CCTV also, I might as well pick up all the info I can about it)

The house I'm going to build will not be huge. Since I've arranged for the 'server room' to be in the center of the house, I doubt longer cable lengths than 20 meters will be used (and even that is stretching it... probably not more than 10 meters or less most of the time). So I don't think I'll need fiber in my case.

Thanks for all your invaluable input guys!

 

[scotty]

[From Cisco.com] "Spanning-Tree Protocol is a link management protocol that provides path redundancy while preventing undesirable loops in the network. For an Ethernet network to function properly, only one active path can exist between two stations.

Multiple active paths between stations cause loops in the network. If a loop exists in the network topology, the potential exists for duplication of messages. When loops occur, some switches see stations appear on both sides of the switch. This condition confuses the forwarding algorithm and allows duplicate frames to be forwarded.

To provide path redundancy, Spanning-Tree Protocol defines a tree that spans all switches in an extended network. Spanning-Tree Protocol forces certain redundant data paths into a standby (blocked) state. If one network segment in the Spanning-Tree Protocol becomes unreachable, or if Spanning-Tree Protocol costs change, the spanning-tree algorithm reconfigures the spanning-tree topology and reestablishes the link by activating the standby path.

Spanning-Tree Protocol operation is transparent to end stations, which are unaware whether they are connected to a single LAN segment or a switched LAN of multiple segments."

As I mentioned before, STP is basically used to provide redundant links between switches. For example, you have Switch A annd Switch B. Both are important switches. Normally, you would only have 1 cable connecting the 2 switches. Any more than 1 cable, and you start getting broadcast storms - bad. STP enabled and configured appropriately on each switch would allow you hook up anywhere between usually 2-5 uplinks between the switches, providing redundancy and depending on the type of switch a performance boost as well.

As I mentioned, this is a rather odd problem. I'm not imtimately familiar with the Sonos products, but it's extremely wierd that they would be having some sort of clash with STP - a protocol which a media streaming product should not even be remotely clashing with. It's obviously a documented case though, so definitely something funky going on between their products and an 1800 switch. I would trust HP more than I would Sonos, so personally I'm going to wager it's an issue with Sonos, not HP. But I don't know Sonos or the HP 1800 series switch in depth, so take my opinion for what it's worth there.

Just go with the 1400 series switch! You're already doing pretty good going that route. Yes, the 1400 doesn't support some of the things the 1800 will support, but for you it doesn't matter. Stop giving yourself so much grief - the 1400 will be a good switch.

 

[Brandon]

"For some strange reason, the implementers chose not to support Spanning Tree Protocol (STP) at all, and did this by filtering out all BPDU packets. This causes any STP enabled devices (in my case, the Sonos music system) to create broadcast storms. This is a fault of the switch, not the Sonos product. I'm unsure as to why HP took an otherwise great switch and crippled it in this way. I wanted to like this switch, but now find myself needing to replace it because of the afore mentioned issue. Other than the STP issue, it's a fine piece of hardware."

That sounds like he enabled spanning tree on a device then connected it to a device that didn't support it. It's like connecting two ports on a dumb switch, it just sees two of the same device and goes nuts, like putting two PC's on the network with the same name.

To restate my VLan idea:

When a network stands wide open (Everything on the same IP's/Subnets) when one device talks, every device has to stop and listen. Every device reads the packets sent to see if the packets are ment for it. When using Vlans, unless a packet is sent to an address/name on another vlan, it's not seen.

This is really something that will help you, as you're putting your home onto a single network. This is a differnt kind of QoS, as there is only a few other devices on that VLan.

You can also use VLan's to keep devices off of the internet, like digital media devices that just use the network for streaming. Putting your wireless on a VLan that can't connect to your home network also prevents evil-doers from messing with things you might not want them to.

Read this, it might give you a better idea of small VLaning.

 

[Bart]

Thanks for your explanation on STP Scotty. It's all clear now. In any case, this indeed seems to be something Sonos should be able to get around, with a nice firmware update. But on their site they've just put the 1800 under the 'incompatible switches' with 'no solution'. That's just the easiest option I guess...

Just go with the 1400 series switch! You're already doing pretty good going that route. Yes, the 1400 doesn't support some of the things the 1800 will support, but for you it doesn't matter. Stop giving yourself so much grief - the 1400 will be a good switch.

I will. As a matter of fact, I might get a 1400 and an 1800. That way I can see how things work out. These pieces of hardware are not *that*expensive after all...
The fact that I'm really fixated on the 1800 is because Brandon has convinced me that VLANning in my case makes sense.

 

[Bart]

You can also use VLan's to keep devices off of the internet, like digital media devices that just use the network for streaming. Putting your wireless on a VLan that can't connect to your home network also prevents evil-doers from messing with things you might not want them to.

Brandon,
This is a very good reason by itself, because my LAN will be used a LOT for media streaming. Thanks for giving me insight in this matter!

I'll read up on that article you've linked to. I know I've read it in the past already, but it can never hurt to freshen up.

I was also meaning to ask you, did you have a look at the setup I had in mind? (a few posts back) Do you believe this is a good setup?

 

[Brandon]

Yes, sorry.

I use that setup, as most routers don't support VLaning (Or atleast the ones that do are quite costly). So, you would more be using the Smart Switch as a router and VLan device.

I would suggest hanging Switches and AP's directly off the Smart swich. That would give you the best overall coverage, allowing you to use full switch VLaning. I personally have a few (three) small mythtv front ends, and one backend.

 

[Foggy_UK]

I've read some very mixed reviews about that specific Linksys switch. Some love it, others seem to hate it and the number of them not doing what they are supposed to do seems to be pretty high. I must be honest: I've never been a big Linksys fan.

I wasn't a Linksys fan, I do how ever like this switch, it does have a very good feature set, more so than you will need for a home network. I went for it because I use Cisco kit in my lab networks and I'm working my way through Cisco Certification. The only downside with this switch for me is that the fans are louder than my old Nortel Baystack switch, and the switch sits in one of two 45U open frame racks in my office. I've got use to it now and it is only a problem late at night when trying to watch TV with the sound turned down not to wake other household members and speaker phone calls. Other than that I like it, it's cisco without the need to learn CLI !

Could you elaborate a bit more on that multicast traffic swamping? What did you experience then? (I have no experience with this kind of stuff and since I want to implement some form of CCTV also, I might as well pick up all the info I can about it)

The data packets from the CCTV use port 5000 and could be seen from every switch port on the linksys switch, I had to use a VLAN to split the digital CCTV recorder and my PC into a seperate VLAN and because the PC also needs to access the internet and other devices on the other LAN / VLAN, change the connection between the Switch and the Draytek into a VLAN trunk port (both VLAN's on the trunk) Inter VLAN traffic has to be routed by a layer three device aka the router in this case, the only pain is as you said the draytek's 100baseTX ports.

The house I'm going to build will not be huge. Since I've arranged for the 'server room' to be in the center of the house,

I have my "alway on" kit located in my home office room (4meters by 3meters). The only kit which stays on all the time is the Draytek 2800 ADSL router, the network 24 port switch, a old PC running SME Server (no screen), the digital CCTV recorder and camera 12v DC PSU, and two Cyberpower 1500VA UPS's. My room gets alot hotter with the door shut for any amount of time, (grater than +4'C above background room temp) to the point I'm in the process of getting quotes for an aircon unit. Anyway my real point is... ventilation!

 

[Steve]

Hey Bart, what you're doing sounds extremely cool and wish you the best of luck in your implementation.

Just a couple of things, as you've already had quite a bit of good advice.

As for STP and the HP 1800 series: this doesn't sound like an STP problem. End devices have no reason to broadcast STP BPDUs, and even if Sonos did send out BPDUs, a switch would ignore it or simply forward the broadcast in all probability if it didn't support STP. The vast majority of consumer/pro-sumer switches don't support STP. I would guess that Sonos is sending out a proprietary frame format (for intra-Sonos connectivity) that the HP doesn't know what to do with, so it replicates and broadcasts, reiteratively, the unknown unicast/multicast/broadcast packet causing a broadcast storm, rendering the network unusable.

VLANs: It looks like you've got a lot of "chatty" network devices and VLANs may enable you to contain the inevitable broadcast and multicast frames within their respective VLANs. However, those same VLANs that allow you to logically segment your network broadcast domains, will isolate your devices as well, i.e. a workstation on VLAN 100 cannot talk to a server on VLAN 200 without a router, a Layer 3 device. If you want any-to-any communication without adding the complexity, albeit minor, stick with a simple Layer 2 network. Besides, your gig of switch connectivity should be ample enough to absorb the minor amount of excess traffic.

I personally would guide you to the higher-end, Layer 2 managed, 48-port D-Link, HP or 3Com, (all sub-$1000) switches for a setup of your scope. They are going to offer the best bang for your buck, and give you more Enterprise class capabilities, performance, enhanced security, filtering, pruning, scalability, etc., if you want to venture that direction. I would avoid Linksys, Netgear, TrendNet, etc. or other mass marketed products. You are investing heavily in your new home technology, don't scrimp where it really matters.

A few other thoughts...

The cable infrastructure is the most often overlooked and most critical aspect of any network deployment. It is the foundation on which you build upon. I applaud your CAT6 decision, but keep in mind there are very stringent requirements to ensure your plant is CAT6, from wire termination, wall plates, patch panels, etc. Just because the cable itself says CAT6 doesn't mean that your plant meets CAT6 requirements. It is an exercise in lowest common denominator; CAT5 wall plates or sloppy wire termination can render CAT6 cable an expensive alternative to barbed wire.

A 48-port switch will simplify your cabling and troubleshooting, versus multiple 24 port switches in multiple locations and intra-switch cabling.

I don't have any knowledge of the Draytek, nor have I ever heard of it, but you evidently like it a lot and feel confident in it's capabilities. I would think for a home automation project, you would want some sort of remote access, and looking through the Draytec, I didn't see any of those capabilities. If this interests you, CheckPoint/Sofaware has their Safe@ appliances that fit the bill admirably, and also have VLAN/routing capabilities in their PowerPack offering, and would highly recommend them.

There are a lot of other things to talk about, look for, etc., but I think you're on the right path. This is very cool stuff, Bart, love to know details of what you're doing, vendors, etc., and would love an update when you have it all put together.

steve.

 

[Bart]

Hey Bart, what you're doing sounds extremely cool and wish you the best of luck in your implementation.

Thanks! I'm looking forward to implementing this. But first the house needs to get built.

As for STP and the HP 1800 series: this doesn't sound like an STP problem. End devices have no reason to broadcast STP BPDUs, and even if Sonos did send out BPDUs, a switch would ignore it or simply forward the broadcast in all probability if it didn't support STP. The vast majority of consumer/pro-sumer switches don't support STP. I would guess that Sonos is sending out a proprietary frame format (for intra-Sonos connectivity) that the HP doesn't know what to do with, so it replicates and broadcasts, reiteratively, the unknown unicast/multicast/broadcast packet causing a broadcast storm, rendering the network unusable.

Very well possible. As said, I'm a network enthusiast, but not a pro. I can only go by what I read about it or what other people tell me. I'm sure you are correct about this. But if this is the case, wouldn't putting the Sonos System on a separate VLAN solve this issue?

VLANs: It looks like you've got a lot of "chatty" network devices and VLANs may enable you to contain the inevitable broadcast and multicast frames within their respective VLANs. However, those same VLANs that allow you to logically segment your network broadcast domains, will isolate your devices as well, i.e. a workstation on VLAN 100 cannot talk to a server on VLAN 200 without a router, a Layer 3 device. If you want any-to-any communication without adding the complexity, albeit minor, stick with a simple Layer 2 network. Besides, your gig of switch connectivity should be ample enough to absorb the minor amount of excess traffic.

Thanks for the advice. By now I had already decided more or less to use ProCurve 1800's or 1400's, which are layer 2. I think it would be better to separate the home automation side of the network from the rest using a VLAN. Just to make sure nothing is disturbing it.

You are investing heavily in your new home technology, don't scrimp where it really matters.

Agreed. I'm going to do this only once, so I want to nail it right on the head first try. I don't intend to buy exessive hardware which I won't need in the end, but the hardware I do buy, I want it to be of the best possible quality. That's why I want to go with the ProCurve range.

The cable infrastructure is the most often overlooked and most critical aspect of any network deployment. It is the foundation on which you build upon. I applaud your CAT6 decision, but keep in mind there are very stringent requirements to ensure your plant is CAT6, from wire termination, wall plates, patch panels, etc. Just because the cable itself says CAT6 doesn't mean that your plant meets CAT6 requirements. It is an exercise in lowest common denominator; CAT5 wall plates or sloppy wire termination can render CAT6 cable an expensive alternative to barbed wire.

Good advice, which I fully agree with. This home automation network does not need Cat6 really Cat 5e is too much even, since the touch panel PC's only support up to 100 mbit networks (which is good enough for what they are intended). But since I only want to only run ONE network in my house, the network is going to be Gigabit, hence the wish for Cat6. Not all the wires are going to be Cat6 though, only the ones going to the panel PC's, and to the connections in the rooms. The wire going to the light switches, temperature sensors, light sensors and movement sensors will only be Cat5, since that is all they need and Cat5 is also a lot less fussy about wire termination and isolation etc...

A 48-port switch will simplify your cabling and troubleshooting, versus multiple 24 port switches in multiple locations and intra-switch cabling.

Normally I would agree with you, but the ProCurve 1800's and 1400's don't come in 48 port versions. Besides, splitting this up provides another advantage: this way I can split the network up between the downstairs network and the upstairs network. This will save from a lot a stairs-climbing once I start implementing it.

I don't have any knowledge of the Draytek, nor have I ever heard of it, but you evidently like it a lot and feel confident in it's capabilities.

You haven't? In that case you really should have a look on their site, choose any device you like and try the Live Web Demo of their firmware. You'll then see to what impressive extend these routers can be configured. (click here for the webdemo of the Vigor2820n, the router of my choice)

I would think for a home automation project, you would want some sort of remote access, and looking through the Draytec, I didn't see any of those capabilities.

Draytek routers fully support a couple of dozen simultaneous VPN links. PPTP, IPsec, L2TP... they all support it.

If this interests you, CheckPoint/Sofaware has their Safe@ appliances that fit the bill admirably, and also have VLAN/routing capabilities in their PowerPack offering, and would highly recommend them.

I'll have a look, but as said, I don't think I'll need it.

This is very cool stuff, Bart, love to know details of what you're doing, vendors, etc., and would love an update when you have it all put together.

I intend to. Once the implementing starts, I plan on creating a journal with my proceedings. (with pics! ) I'll post about it here then.
Just don't expect this to be within a few weeks... as said: the house needs to be built first.

 

[Steve]

...wouldn't putting the Sonos System on a separate VLAN solve this issue?

Unfortunately not. The VLAN the Sonos devices are a member of would still have the problem. Now whether that takes down just that VLAN or cripples the switch completely is irrelevent. Evidently, according to Sonos, it just doesn't work on the 1800 series switches. I didn't see mention of the 1400 on the Sonos site, but the mention of the 1800 just gives me reason to pause.

Thanks for the advice. By now I had already decided more or less to use ProCurve 1800's or 1400's, which are layer 2. I think it would be better to separate the home automation side of the network from the rest using a VLAN. Just to make sure nothing is disturbing it.

I really like the ProCurve switches, and run my SqueezeBox media server and devices in my home, along with everything else, with absolutely no issues whatsoever. I investigated Sonos and avoided them because the did have a number of issues with various pieces of network gear. I don't have a tremendous amount of experience with the 1400 or the 1800, but I have very good experiences with a number of their other switches.

I intend to. Once the implementing starts, I plan on creating a journal with my proceedings. (with pics! ) I'll post about it here then.
Just don't expect this to be within a few weeks... as said: the house needs to be built first.[/QUOTE]

Outstanding Bart. Good Luck!