Problem with GoCoax 2.5 Moca and Asus Router/Arris Docsis 3.1 modem

[shelleyevans]

Hi!

Before I sell my GoCoax adapters, I thought I would check in here to see if folks have any advice. I'm running an AiMesh system, with a node in the basement that gets poor wifi backhaul, and set up the GoCoax modems to improve speed at that node. (Years ago I used Moca 1.0 adapters all over the house, and found them to be terrific for wifi deadspots.)

Since installing the Moca adapters, I have been having some trouble with my network, primarily reduced speed-- my system gives me 900/40 when I connect to directly to the Arris modem, or to the router without the moca adapters installed, but that speed drops to 600/40 and often less once I attach the GoCoax adapters. Worse, the adapter seems to make the network unstable-- there are many uncorrectable errors on the downstream channels, and the Arris modem periodically seems to drop the connection all together. My ISP download channels never use higher than 600 megahertz (I am attaching a partial picture), so it shouldn't theoretically overlap the Moca range, but I tried enabling only the high range on the GoCoax, to see if that helped things. No joy. I also tried using a Moca-rated splitter before the router, but that, if anything, made the router/modem performance worse. And I do have a Moca POE filter.

In sum, I have great Moca to Moca performance, but an unstable and slow network, possibly because of interference with my Arris modem. Has anybody ever heard of such an issue (I have been reading and reading these threads, and not seeing it), or have a suggestion? I'm out of solutions, and am concluding that high speed internet and high speed moca don't play together well in my house. Thoughts....?

 

[degrub]

We need a schematic showing all devices, splitters ( and rating), moca poe filter, cable runs, from the ISP drop throughout the house.
Not sure how and where exactly you are speed testing when you see the drop or the network instability.

 

[shelleyevans]

Thank you for the kick in the butt that I needed to go outside and look at the box (I always dread doing this), where I re-discovered a rats nest of cable connections and TWO five way splitters. Since I am now only using coax for internet and Moca, I took every single cable (and the second splitter) off the first splitter, except for those cable modem and Moca adapater (and ordered some caps, which I will use when they come to cap off the open terminals). I also reset the Moca adapters, which I had been fiddling with, thinking they were the problem, and, just for yucks, gave them ip addresses in my network range, so I can check them if I need to. When I look at my modem now, after several hours of uptime, I see NO uncorrectables (this was completely not the case before, many channels throwing uncorrectables after a few hours and most after several days) and power levels that are in line with recommended Docsis 3.1 levels, and my speeds are back up to normal again. Moral of the story-- don't be lazy. Go outside. Even if it's cold.

 

[degrub]

Glad it worked out ! Two 5 way splitters is impressive.

 

[shelleyevans]

That's one way to describe it

 

[shelleyevans]

Question: I have a coax outlet (not hooked up but cable inside the wall) next to an unused working ethernet jack. Assuming that coax terminates in the cable box outside the house, is it possible to isolate my Moca network from the network entirely, by coupling those cables in the box, and then moving one Moca adapter to that, modem-free location? This would clean things up even more!

 

[degrub]

Without knowing the cable plant ( from a sketch of the layout) , hard to say. You can always try it.
If you want to do coax tracing (continuity) to figure out which one it is in the box or even if it routes there, you can get one of the inexpensive coax testers to ring it out. Tester is a cap device on one end (so need a barrel connector sometimes, both ends have to have a male or female termination) and the signal generator box on the other.

 

[shelleyevans]

Well that tells me at least in theory it’s possible! I ordered a tester, and will see if it routes there. Sadly we are in an old, old house, and it’s impossible to figure out what’s happening in the walls, but the two cables I connected yesterday (modem and moca) seem to be clean runs straight outside— all those other cables must be going SOMEwhere. I will test!

 

[degrub]

when you put the receiver cap on one end, be sure to test all the other open cables to see if there are any branches. May be easiest to cap the end in the box and go around all the rooms testing each wall termination. Make a map.

 

[shelleyevans]

Will do! Still waiting for my testing tool to arrive. But it just occurred to me: I am planning/hoping to just couple the Comcast feed right to the cable that goes to the modem. In that case, what do I do with the grounding wire? Does the connection need to be grounded if I am not using a splitter?

Edit: just looked up “grounding coupler” and found this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WXSJMQC/?tag=snbforums-20 Would I use something like this? And, if so, would I need to ground the Moca loop also? Thank you!

 

[degrub]

the cable provider must connect their coax shield to earth before it enters the structure (house). That is NEC code. That is to reduce the chance that lightning or applied current on the coax shield will enter the structure and cause a fire or equipment damage.

Post a picture of your open box and where the earthing cable goes, showing how far it runs, and the actual connect to the grounding rod, please.

And , yes, if your coax being used for moca goes outside, it should also be bonded to earth. The issue may be that the moca adapters are providing a connection from the coax shield to earth through their power supply. If that is the case, then it may be possible to set up a ground loop with current flowing through the cable shield to the gocoax power supply then to the structure electrical earthing point and back through the earth to the outside box. If there is too much potential difference between the two points, then it can cause issues for the equipment. Ideally, the cable box is very close to the electrical earthing point or possibly connected directly to it. Then, no issue.

Since your previous installation with the moca modems went through that earthed splitter, it should be ok. If you connect, you are supposed to run a separate wire to the earthing point that was driven into the ground.

Follow code.. It is the minimum level of safety and loss prevention.

Any way you can keep all the moca runs within the structure ?

 

[shelleyevans]

Thank you for helping with this. I am attaching photographs, as well as a diagram, because, as you will see, it's a rats nest outside of my house (Overview photograph)-- a hundred year old house, which has seen many owners, and different cable installations. Sadly, there is no way to bring the junction box inside the house-- there is a finished basement on the other side, and it's impossible to see where all the wires that go into the house terminate. But I'm planning to clean it up by: labeling, and using only the three cables we need, 2 Moca and 1 Internet.

It looks to me like the original ground goes from a grounding coupler outside of the box, and disappears into the house (Photograph 2), presumably to the "earthing point" you describe. The coax cable attached to that grounding coupler comes from the pole, but is not connected to anything else (Photograph 3), so must have been an old installation. There is a "patch" grounding cable that goes from inside the box (Photograph 1), and connects to the first grounding cable, that runs into the house.

I have ordered a grounding coupler that has two couplers, with the thought that I would install the Internet/POE filter (Photograph 1) on one coupler, and the two Moca cables (if I can sort that out) on the other coupler, and use the ground that you see on the splitter in photograph 1.

How does that sound? With apologies in advance for the complexity of this. I am highly motivated to simplify this tangle of wires and get our internet under control.

 

[shelleyevans]

Updates-- I was unable to locate the terminus of the cable jack inside the house that I was hoping to use to isolate my Moca network (a jack near a working ethernet connection). The other jacks are not going to be helpful to me, because they aren't near an ethernet outlet. We will not be able to isolate the MOCA network, after all, unless I wanted to spend time trying to figure out where the useful Coax jack actually leads, and the chances seem pretty good that it leads nowhere, or at least nowhere I can easily loop into the other outlet. My best bet will be to proceed with the set-up I currently have (photograph 1, in the previous post).

What is the best way to manage all the unused cables outside of the house? I have removed the second splitter, and they are now just kind of hanging out in the box. None of them are connected to anything at the other end-- I know where three terminate, and there isn't equipment on those outlets. Two of the cables read as "Open" when I tested them-- I take it this means that they go nowhere.

 

[degrub]

On the unused catv grounding block connected to the old catv pole drop, i would coil that up all the way to the pole and leave it there for possible future use if possible. My understanding is that the bonding path to earth from any coax drop to a service entrance is not allowed to have any intermediate connections between the earthing rod and the coax bonding point. If you leave that catv coax there, i believe it is supposed to be bonded to the same earthing rod.

i am not sure about the code requirements if you would have to bond a moca splitter in that box to the earthing rod if the cables only make a union connection there.


you should have someone familiar with local electric codes make sure it is correct. Perhaps the isp technician or catv installer could verify the installation is to code. Electricians are also code knowledgable. City or county inspectors should be as well.


i would still verify where all the cables go to in the house. You might find some of the ends up in the attic as well. You might find a path that lets you keep the routimg entirely inside the structure.

 

[shelleyevans]

At the moment I have to leave the unused cable in place, because (for better or worse) the grounding wire that I am using goes to that grounding block, and from there into the house. Since there's nothing else on the grounding block, I presume it's pretty close to a straight run-- but who knows where. I will go in search of an installer, who might be better at tracing these very old cables, and will certainly know more about whether the ground is to code. Thank you for all your help!

 

[krkaufman]

Question: I have a coax outlet (not hooked up but cable inside the wall) next to an unused working ethernet jack. Assuming that coax terminates in the cable box outside the house, is it possible to isolate my Moca network from the network entirely, by coupling those cables in the box, and then moving one Moca adapter to that, modem-free location?

Yup, that would (have) work(ed); and would (have) be(en) great for future-proofing the setup for DOCSIS 3.1, 4.0 and on ... isolating the cable Internet (D3.1+) signals from the MoCA-infused coax, increasingly necessary given the overlap between the D3.1 and MoCA frequency ranges.

Examples: with or without TV service