Question about cable modem channels

[Razor512]

I have a friend who is stuck with time warner cable (15mbit down, 1mbit up package), and he is currently having me help him fix an issue with a number of people using his wifi.

backstory:--------------
For some reason, time warner is refusing to change settings, as well as give users access to the web UI of the cable model/ router combo, and it is permanently set to use WEP. The modem is a crappy SMC801W-g. In scanning the network, he has at least 10 other people/ devices using his connection. (time warner did not care that this was happening, and I could not convince them to care)

(basically someone in the area went "hey I just saved a bunch of money on my internet by switching to aircrack-ng", and then probably passed out the key)

This is all on top of an insane monthly rental fee for the modem. So the best solution so far, is to simply buy a new cable modem, and recoup the cost by no longer having to pay the rental fees.

end of backstory:--------------

I recently read a post about about a cable model being offered by netgear, http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...337-netgear-announces-cable-modem-router-pair

And it is listed as supporting 8x4 channels

I was wondering has there been any indepth benchmarks or first hand experience as to whether 8x4 will be of any benefit over 4x4 if the overall connection speed is far below the max supported by either config?

A Motorola SB6121 is cheaper at $67 (he already has an extra wifi router), but does only 4x4

while the netgear does 8x4, and has built in wifi at $100, which may also allow him to not have to use his WRT160n

(I was lucky enough to not have to use cable internet as I was able to move from DSL, right to verizon fios, but now verizon is being lazy and stupid and not expanding the service)

TL: DR

Does 8x4 offer any benefit over 4x4, if the internet connection package is a 15 mbit package (that realistically only gets around 10mbit/s)?

 

[stevech]

I have long had Time Warner in So. CA.
I have always used their modem but my router. So how my WiFi is configured is my choice.
And if there's a question about loss of synch on the modem, it's their problem. I don't own the modem and do not want to.

Your friend should do the same.

The modems I've had (not router) all respond to 192.168.100.1 for read-only admin. But few people need to look at that.

 

[Razor512]

The issue with time warner is that due to some security issues with the cable modem/ router combo, they simply disabled all access to the router page does not work. It is a decision that time warner made, and because of that, it is stuck with the default settings. (may be an issue with that specific model, but even though docsis 2.0 is outdated, they will only replace it with the same model.

They also pull the same crap as verizon where if a product is reported as faulty and they replace it, they replace it with the same model, even if that model is now outdated and no longer offered to new customers, unless you renew, and thus lose your old package for a new package that is more expensive and has fewer channels.

To avoid all of the annoyance, and save $6 a month, it seems best to just replace the cable modem/ router combo.

The concern is if a 8x4 cable modem will perform any better than 4x4 cable modem (as both models list support for speeds much higher than 15 mbit), but as standard with cable, it never delivers the full speed advertised, so the question is will the higher end cable modem help in any way?

 

[stevech]

Time Warner in this region does not force one to take their router. And you have the option, which I don't take, to buy your own modem.

My Time Warner device is an Arris combo DOCSIS modem for internet plus digital phone, with battery backup. I use my own router.

Cable modems, on the infrastructure side, at least in the US, are either DOCSIS 2 or DOCSIS 3 (new). Each has speed options (grade of service or GOS), depending on your package price.

I recommend NOT using the cable co's router; use modem only.

 

[stevech]

You really can't do a lot of setting changes on a regular modem. I'm using a Motorola SB6141 SURFboard cable modem & the only thing I can do on it is reset or restart the modem. Firmware upgrade is done online by cable internet provider. If your cable internet provider is still stuck with the old firmware then you have to go with it. If your modem comes with a built in wireless router the router usually sucks (AT&T Uverse latest gateway modem/router for example is still on wireless G). Best option would be to turn off the router function & use a separate (much better) wireless router.

Instead of "Best option is to turn off", IMO, the best option is to get the ISP to provide a modem-only (like the SB6141 or equiv.) and don't use a combo modem/router from the ISP at all.

 

[CooCooCaChoo]

Yeah definitely ditch the cable company's modem /router combo. Comcast does the same thing when you rent their equipment. They setup a wireless Hotspot, but require users to use their combat login to gain access.

As for the better modem, the 8x4 is a little more future proof because it will be able to use the extra channels, but if you aren't using those channels now, they're basically a waste.

 

[sfx2000]

Not all Cable MSO's allow folks to purchase their own modems - but if your CableCo does - the Motorola SB6141 is highly recommended - it's stable, it's as fast as your operator will allow, and being DOCSIS 3.0, fairly future proof if they offer higher data rates. Nice thing with the 6141 is that it has Gigabit Ethernet at the modem, so if your router also supports GiGE on the WAN port... Get the retail version (White Case) - there are Black Case variants for sale on Amazon/eBay, but those are carrier specific versions - white case is Customer Provided Equipment.

Try if possible to stay away from the CM/Gateways - e.g. all-in-one CableModem and WiFi access point if you can - they're a bear to troubleshoot and debug, and most installers hate them... examples here are the Surfboard SBG6580 and the like...

With DSL/FIOS, your options are a bit more limited, so you might want to check the broadband oriented sites such as dslreports.com...

 

[stevech]

I'd be surprised if Time Warner's (OP's ISP) policy on using a modem not router differs nationally. In this region, one can get THEIR modem, use with YOUR router. You can also buy your own modem - but I don't because when there are synch failures, if you buy your own modem, they threaten you with no trouble found fees, and they tend to finger-point.

 

[Kris404]

I'd be surprised if Time Warner's (OP's ISP) policy on using a modem not router differs nationally. In this region, one can get THEIR modem, use with YOUR router. You can also buy your own modem - but I don't because when there are synch failures, if you buy your own modem, they threaten you with no trouble found fees, and they tend to finger-point.

I bought my own 6141 for TWC to avoid their modem rental fees.

No fingerpointing so far. You're fine as long as it's one of their 'approved' models from their website.

 

[sfx2000]

More importantly - if it's not on their "approved" list, they won't provision it, simple enough...

SB6141 is common enough for MSO's that support Customer Provided Equipment (CPE).

sfx

 

[Kris404]

True. I don't think 6121 is on the list. Bought 6141 for my 30/5 'Extreme' upgrade. Although for some reason, the old Actiontec modem is still on the account.

 

[stevech]

I bought my own 6141 for TWC to avoid their modem rental fees.

No fingerpointing so far. You're fine as long as it's one of their 'approved' models from their website.

Out here, the techs just look at the account and if it says "customer-owned modem", the assumed guilt goes to the customer, not Time Warner. In my case, this was key because I had a long period (over a year) of intermittent loss-of-synch on my modem. Maybe 10 truck rolls to my house. Problem was solved by me, by finding an illegal 4-way splitter was in the coax between my home and their demarcation point. The coax ran through neighbors' attics (town houses).

Time Warner has a max number of truck rolls they'll do before flat-out dropping the customer as unprofitable.

Best case is they come, try their own modem. But when problems are intermittent, substituting Cable Co's own modem doesn't help in diagnosis.

 

[Razor512]

I will just have him go with a dedicated modem. (In his area, time warner would not change his modem to a different model, without charging him, that is on top of a continued monthly rental fee, so in the long run, it is cheaper to simply buy a modem.

I will have him go with the Motorola SB6141 since it seems to have a proven track record of working well.

==-=-=--=-=-=
For me I am lucky enough to be on verizon fios, and am using an R7000 as my main router, and the verizon crap as a moca to ethernet bridge.

All you need to do is run an ethernet cable from the ONT, then tell verizon to switch the ONT from coax, to ethernet, then simply disable the DHCP on the actiontec crap, then change its IP address to something else (e.g., 192.168.1.99 )

Then connect an ethernet cable from a LAN port on the actiontec, to a LAN port on your new router. then after that, simply assign static addresses to your set top boxes (Make sure the DVR has 192.168.1.100) , then simply forward the ports that the actiontec router had forwarded for the STB, or throw it onto the DMZ (only DVR's need port forwarding, secondary STB's will work just fine without) Once that is done, all DVR functions including remote access, should work fine.

 

[stevech]

Why change modem?
I can see changing from modem+router to modem only. But that should be 0 cost to customer.

In troubleshooting, Time Warner techs in this region often swap modems for a newer one - no big deal.

In 15 years with Time Warner, I've never had to use their routers.

 

[KGB7]

Tell your friend to just buy a wirelesses router and plug that in to the isp modem.


In my experience and from financial point of view, its better to rent a modem.

1. If you only paying $5 a month to rent a modem, thats only $60 a year, $120 for 2 years.

2. If you buy your own modem, thats $100 out of your pocket. If it fails at any time, then; a) buy a new modem which costs another $100, b) if its still in warranty then you have to deal with manufacturer directly to replace it.

3. If the rental modem fails at any give time, the ISP will replace it for free. Thus no immediate cost out of your own pocket. As long as you are a customer, ISP will continue to replace failed modem.

4. If your friend is not getting advertised speeds that he is paying for, then he need to apply pressure on ISP, and have them resolve the issue.


I used to buy my own Motorola modems, and they kept failing right after one year, after 4 years, i wasted over $400+tax. So i started renting modems from ISP. I get full speed from my ISP and they have replaced 3 modems in the last 2 years. On top of that, they have added a coaxial power booster in to my house. In the end, i have saved money and i have less head ache.

Plus, if there are any issues, they cant put any blame on me for any reason, because i only use their equipment. Thus they will send out techs as often as they have to if there are any issues. Once again, less headache for me and i pay less in long term.

I have Comcast, but tomorrow im getting FIOS, simply because ill be getting more and paying less for the next 2 years. And after 2 years ill be paying same amount as i am for Comcast.

 

[Razor512]

Over here, the way time warner works is basically locations where verizon and time warner coverage overlaps, the speeds are very close to advertised speeds, e.g., my neighbor has time warner, and gets the full speed for both upload and download. My friend who lives about 2 miles away, is outside of the verizon fios coverage area, and only has 3mbit DSL, and time warner. At no time during the day does the speed ever get close to the advertised speeds.

time warner basically knows this and offers crappy service because they know that users will rather have a 10 megabit connection instead of a 3 megabit connection.

Overall, it sucks when there is no direct competition for ISP's. When I called trying to get time warner to fix their crap, I also tried to either get the service improved, or the bill reduced. threatening to switch to verizon fios did not work, the worker flat out told me that they know that fios is not available in the area.

 

[CaptainSTX]

The latest generation Actiontec modem doesn't get the respect it deserves.

The one Verizon gave me in September 2013 has never had to be rebooted. The speed it delivers measured using Ethernet almost always meet or exceeds the 75/35 I pay for. And while this router doesn't have every feature you can imagine it has enough for most people. The principle thing it lacks is a 5 Ghz radio.

Now I only use the Actiontec to serve my set top boxes and a Roku while having double NATed two N66Us behind the Actiontec for some of the more advanced features I want that Merlin's and the Tomato firmware can provide as well as additional WiFi coverage. I need additional WiFi APs because I live in an area where I can pick up 30+ SSIDs so I need to have a very strong WiFi signal in all location and for speed I use Ethernet connections

My recommendation for most people would be to not disable the Actiontec but simply hang some other routers APs off it if you better WiFi coverage and the Actiontec's coverage isn't that bad.

 

[KGB7]

Over here, the way time warner works is basically locations where verizon and time warner coverage overlaps, the speeds are very close to advertised speeds, e.g., my neighbor has time warner, and gets the full speed for both upload and download. My friend who lives about 2 miles away, is outside of the verizon fios coverage area, and only has 3mbit DSL, and time warner. At no time during the day does the speed ever get close to the advertised speeds.

time warner basically knows this and offers crappy service because they know that users will rather have a 10 megabit connection instead of a 3 megabit connection.

Overall, it sucks when there is no direct competition for ISP's. When I called trying to get time warner to fix their crap, I also tried to either get the service improved, or the bill reduced. threatening to switch to verizon fios did not work, the worker flat out told me that they know that fios is not available in the area.

Sounds like bait and switch to me. Your friend should contact BBB and file a complaint.

 

[stevech]

Sounds like bait and switch to me. Your friend should contact BBB and file a complaint.

BBB is totally useless these days for $MM companies. I went through a battle with AT&T. My on-line registered complaint to the BBB yielded a mindless response from BBB. Sadly, BBB isn't what it used to be. They have no real revenue source, so their centralized computer software just tries to placate. In my case, the complaint caused a routine process to occur, where some corporate dolt files a response saying they corrected the problem. Blatantly false. BBB then closes the case, with no attempt to ask me, the complainant, if it is true that the problem was corrected.

Per me, it is good to do business with BBB member small companies locally, as this indicates a small company (construction, plumber, etc.) wants to keep a clean record.

But for large national companies, BBB is not useful.

Maybe your state's Consumer Affairs office would be better. I tried my large city's office handling AT&T's franchise. Amazingly, no one knew who handled that nor the complaint process.

PS: I dropped AT&T after a lifetime of landline service. Because of the above, and their Peggy-like customer service, and the hard time I had even cancelling service, I will never ever give a penny to AT&T for any of their wired/wireless products, nor their banded products like cordless phones.

 

[RogerSC]

Overall, it sucks when there is no direct competition for ISP's. When I called trying to get time warner to fix their crap, I also tried to either get the service improved, or the bill reduced. threatening to switch to verizon fios did not work, the worker flat out told me that they know that fios is not available in the area.

Same situation here for ISP's, Comcast or the highway. However, since I bundle phone, cable TV and internet, I threaten them with going to satellite TV, and unbundling my phone and internet. That seems to be enough to get them to cooperate.

Doesn't with help Comcast's speed tiers being half of what they are most everywhere else here, though. That one's hopeless since they know they have no competition. Why should they invest in infrastructure if they don't have to? Love to see them regulated, but at this point, what are the chances of that?