R7800 and issues with iOS/Apple devices on 5GHz

[TonyH]

Update: So this may be totally anecdotal at this stage - I've not done enough testing to be 100% sure, but with today's OSX 10.11.4 update and iOS 9.3 these devices seem to be able to connect both much more reliably and the first time after restarts or quickly switching off and on wifi.

Is anyone else who has updated OSX/iOS seeing the same?

Running latest f/w? If not check the release note. We only have a MBP and couple iPADs using this router. No issues. Plus many Windows 7/10 desk tops, laptops,wireless surveillance cameras, two wireless printers, Synology NAS... All works fine. Wireless range is definitely improved with this router. Most notably on HTPC 5GHz signal strength was 60 - some db. always. Now it is below 60 db always. 2.4GHz is even better.

 

[garethr]

Running latest f/w? If not check the release note. We only have a MBP and couple iPADs using this router. No issues. Plus many Windows 7/10 desk tops, laptops,wireless surveillance cameras, two wireless printers, Synology NAS... All works fine. Wireless range is definitely improved with this router. Most notably on HTPC 5GHz signal strength was 60 - some db. always. Now it is below 60 db always. 2.4GHz is even better.

So with the combination of the current release firmware and the 10.11.4 update the OSX connectivity issues I was seeing are definitely resolved, however the iOS issues remain but these have been fixed along with the PS4 fragmentation issue in a beta firmware provided by @NETGEAR Guy which myself and @Killhippie have been testing.
If you go back through this thread you'll see the issues are quite specific relating to initial connections to the 5GHz band, although the specific symptoms myself and @Killhippie had been seeing were subtly different.

At this point we're just awaiting an update as to when the fix in this beta will be rolled into the current release branch because the beta is sadly missing most of the new features and functionality from the current version.

 

[Killhippie]

Support cant seem to replicate the IP fragmentation issue, it may be down to my fibre connection but all I know is it didn't happen with previous routers but that's no guarantee the R7800 is to blame. I am perplexted by the QOS system though, I have a B&W Wireless Zeppelin that it cannot recognise and gives a medium setting to, sadly there is no Airplay speaker setting to know what setting it should have. I gave my iMac Highest not high as I use it a lot to stream media to as its a late 2015 5K iMac and I tend to use it more than the TV sometimes. QOS definitely needs some work. Any ideas on an appropriate setting for an airplay speaker would be much appreciated.

 

[garethr]

@Killhippie I'd probably just go with the horribly generic sounding "media device" which is what I have my Sonos and Sony soundbar devices set as. To be fair none of these device would probably require high or highest setting though as from a WAN perspective they don't require low latency - or even much in the way of bandwidth in the grand scheme of things.

 

[TonyH]

Support cant seem to replicate the IP fragmentation issue, it may be down to my fibre connection but all I know is it didn't happen with previous routers but that's no guarantee the R7800 is to blame. I am perplexted by the QOS system though, I have a B&W Wireless Zeppelin that it cannot recognise and gives a medium setting to, sadly there is no Airplay speaker setting to know what setting it should have. I gave my iMac Highest not high as I use it a lot to stream media to as its a late 2015 5K iMac and I tend to use it more than the TV sometimes. QOS definitely needs some work. Any ideas on an appropriate setting for an airplay speaker would be much appreciated.

Tried QoS disabled?

 

[Killhippie]

Tried QoS disabled?

Yes both enabled and disabled I get the same report on the PS4. Also I am noticing the Router is listing DOS and ACK scans from services like speedtest and Apple (I have an iMac and i devices) the firewall is behaving oddly and blocking legitimate traffic at times.

 

[Killhippie]

@Killhippie I'd probably just go with the horribly generic sounding "media device" which is what I have my Sonos and Sony soundbar devices set as. To be fair none of these device would probably require high or highest setting though as from a WAN perspective they don't require low latency - or even much in the way of bandwidth in the grand scheme of things.

Cheers garethr

 

[Killhippie]

I've decided to switch off the QOS as there is only me living here at the moment, I'll wait till QOS can recognise my iMac and not think my TV is a Linux PC The fact that I can't make make iMac 'stick' shows me that the Netgear skinned Qualcomm QOS needs some work, and I don't really trust it just yet, as my blue ray player was having a hard time getting a lock with QOS on, with it off instant just about. Also I want the iOS fix rolled in before I go any further with it as well.

 

[Synomenon]

Thanks will pass that on...

Any updates on a new FW update with the currently mentioned issues in this thread, fixed? Still going to take until June?

 

[NETGEAR Guy]

Since each FW release goes through full SQA testing to ensure quality, so currently they have "specified" June.

I understand SQA is starting tomorrow...

 

[garethr]

@NETGEAR Guy Would be more than happy to beta test this myself.

 

[NETGEAR Guy]

Thanks...checking the status..

 

[Killhippie]

@NETGEAR Guy Same here, the fact I'm on the verge of buying a new router because the iOS issue keeps blocking my wifi calling when I leave my home and return or turn my phone off I have kinda reached my limit for what is now an expensive experiment that should not have left the factory as I see it at this time. I forgot how much I dislike bleeding edge tech, then again the R7000 has been messed up for almost 6 months with constant beta builds and people moaning about 2.4Ghz issues and firmware being pulled. The R7000 was probably the most reliable router I had till Arlo came along which ruined it. Netgear have really gone down hill, great hardware very bad firmware.

 

[Killhippie]

Quite disappointed by netgear to hear they are testing compatibility on the R7800 with iOS 8 not iOS 9 and also using beta versions of 10.11.4 not full release, and they wonder why things down work.

 

[garethr]

Quite disappointed by netgear to hear they are testing compatibility on the R7800 with iOS 8 not iOS 9 and also using beta versions of 10.11.4 not full release, and they wonder why things down work.

Why on earth would they bother testing iOS8. Seems rather pointless!

@NETGEAR Guy Any further update on a beta test or release date?

 

[Killhippie]

Why on earth would they bother testing iOS8. Seems rather pointless!

@NETGEAR Guy Any further update on a beta test or release date?

I had a message from @NETGEAR Guy (very helpful person) This is what came back. Talking about not testing with current, hell they even tested with Windows 7! No wonder they cant fix things in a timely fashion... They didnt even test with a 6s/6Plus or iPad Air 2 or the iPad Pro line up.


iMac (OSX EI Capitan V10.11.4 beta)- wired
WIN7 -wired
iPhone6 (V8.3) -5G
iPad mini3 (V8.0) -5G

 

[thiggins]

I had a message from @NETGEAR Guy (very helpful person) This is what came back. Talking about not testing with current, hell they even tested with Windows 7! No wonder they cant fix things in a timely fashion... They didnt even test with a 6s/6Plus or iPad Air 2 or the iPad Pro line

Some of us long ago learned to stay off the leading edge of tech. This is especially true of wireless routers, given the rate of change in Wi-Fi standards and technologies.

And don't be so quick to judge regarding testing old OSes. Not everyone upgrades.

 

[sfx2000]

They need to test against IOS8 and IOS9, but esp. IOS8 because of AWDL, which introduced a couple of things...

The AWDL uses another MAC address outside of the primary address, and this can cause issues with the MAC state tables on certain chipsets at the WiFI layer, and with IOS8, they also introduce mutlipath TCP...

IOS9 does the same thing, but they cleaned it up a bit - and there are a few million devices that'll never see IOS9 - AppleTV v3 (and the ATVv2, but it's stuck at IOS7, FWIW).

 

[L&LD]

Some of us long ago learned to stay off the leading edge of tech. This is especially true of wireless routers, given the rate of change in Wi-Fi standards and technologies.

And don't be so quick to judge regarding testing old OSes. Not everyone upgrades.

That may be true a long time ago from the consumer side. Today? A tech company that 'stays off of leading edge tech' is shooting itself in the foot, imo.

They can't afford to keep doing that to themselves. Hope they learn before it is too late.

 

[Killhippie]

Some of us long ago learned to stay off the leading edge of tech. This is especially true of wireless routers, given the rate of change in Wi-Fi standards and technologies.

And don't be so quick to judge regarding testing old OSes. Not everyone upgrades.

While I agree not everyone upgrades its also pointless not testing because some devices come with that new OS installed. Software and hardware updates in new devices means new specs and new drivers and these new devices need to be tested too so people can be sure they are actually compatible at some point. (also updating does patch big security holes which is worth doing considering how much people use their handhelds these days, let alone desktops and laptops too) The R7800 isn't compatible with some iOS devices hence Netgear has created a patched firmware which wont be available till June.

Netgear say the QoS should recognise my late 2015 5k iMac as a macbook, but that doesn't happen either, probably because they are using iMacs from 2013 with very old hardware. Also why cant it recognise even old ones as iMacs, its in the QoS settings, though they wont stick for me on my iMac. I know you cant keep up with every new piece of tech but that's what Streamboost is about, its cloud based QoS that learns about new devices. So I wonder why Netgears implementation of Streamboost seems oddly hamstrung compared with other routers that use the same Qualcomm tech.

On a side note its not just bleeding edge routers either, the old faithful R7000 has had so many beta firmware updates since the pulled two and left everyone with wondering wait was going on, I do have to question Netgears ability to actually create good firmware. Last time I looked the R7000 was still on a beta and its about 5 months since the first pulled the V1.0.6.28 because of issues with Arlo support being added. <sigh> I'm getting to old for this