R7800 – problem with Verizon FIOS upload speeds

[Steve P]

I have Verizon FIOS service with 75Mbps/75Mbps internet, HD TV, and voice.
My original setup uses the Verizon MI424WR as the primary router with a second router configured as a wireless AP. While everything works okay I am planning to upgrade my Verizon internet service to 150/150 and replace the old Linksys router that I use as an AP.


I purchased the R7800 to use as my primary router with the MI424WR now used as a secondary router to provide Verizon specific services only (on demand, program guide, remote DVR access, STB access).

With R7800 used as the primary router and configured correctly I have no problems using any of the Verizon FIOS services.
However, I am having very slow upload speeds with the R7800 using wireless or wired connections. Download speeds are good.


With the MI424WR typical wired speeds tests are:
download is 83 Mbps, upload is 87 Mbps


With the R7800 my speed tests are:
download is 83 Mbps, upload maxes out at 29 Mbps


So with the R7800 my upload speeds about a third of what I should have. I am using the latest firmware (1.0.0.40, 01/26/2016) and nothing in the setting looks incorrect.
I have also done additional testing that may indicate that the R7800 just does not play nice with FIOS.
Has anyone seen this problem or have a solution for this?


Steve

 

[avtella]

Do you have QoS enabled? Toggle it on or off. Oddly enough someone else had a similar issue and turning on QoS fixed it, some kind of bug maybe.

 

[Steve P]

avtella,
Thanks for the reply. I do not have QoS enabled.

I did a search related to slow Negtear upload speeds. I saw posts for the R8500 but nothing for the R7800.
Some people were convinced that it was related to QoS while for other people changing the QoS setting made no difference. From what I read the problem was fixed with a firmware update.

The strange thing is that the router works fine if it is not the primary router. So here is my test:

reconnected my Verizon MI424WR to the Verizon ONT with a cat 5e ethernet cable.
connected the R7800 WAN port to a LAN port on the MI424WR.
connected my workstation to a LAN port on the R7800
R7800 configured as a router.

Ran various speed tests. The upload and download speed are the same as if I connected my computer directly to the MI424WR. Download is 83 Mbps, Upload is 87 Mbps

Any other ideas?
Steve

 

[avtella]

I assume you were doing transparent bridging when this issue occurred? That is what I do with my CenturyLink modem.

Temporarily you could put your R7800 in the FiOS modem's DMZ.

 

[Steve P]

avtella,

My second test was a router behind a router configuration.
The Verizon router was connected directly to the internet (ONT with cat 5e cable).
The R7800 WAN port was connected to a LAN port on the Verizon router
The R7800 was set to factory defaults and was in router mode.
My PC was connected to a LAN port on the R7800.
There was no need to change the Verizon router DMZ setting for this test.

In this configuration the speeds tests that I did matched the speeds tests when I had my PC connected to a LAN port on the Verizon router. In other words, there are no WAN to LAN or LAN to WAN performance penalties. The problem is exclusively related to when the R7800 is the primary router and is directly connected to the Verizon ONT.

I called and talked to tech support at Netgear.
The person that I talked with was polite and seemed genuinely was trying to be helpful. Unfortunately, in the end he was unable to resolve the problem.

From my perspective as a software developer he was more interested in checking off a list of predetermined checks rather than listening to how I defined the problem and the tests that I did to narrow down the issue.
For example, I clearly explained to him how I had R7800 configured and that I had my PC connected to a LAN port on the R7800 with an cat 5e ethernet cable.
He then wanted me to make changes to the router settings. His instructions were to change the wireless channel and other wireless settings. Seriously?

In the end I was unable to get this elevated to level 2 tech support for resolution and had to return the product. Time permitting I may purchase a different R7800 to make sure that it was not a hardware problem.

The R7800 looks like a promising 802.11ac wave 2 product that Tim's review ranked it as the #1 AC2600 router. In the end for me the very slow upload speeds are a show stopper.

Steve

 

[ahnfire]

avtella,

My second test was a router behind a router configuration.
The Verizon router was connected directly to the internet (ONT with cat 5e cable).
The R7800 WAN port was connected to a LAN port on the Verizon router
The R7800 was set to factory defaults and was in router mode.
My PC was connected to a LAN port on the R7800.
There was no need to change the Verizon router DMZ setting for this test.

In this configuration the speeds tests that I did matched the speeds tests when I had my PC connected to a LAN port on the Verizon router. In other words, there are no WAN to LAN or LAN to WAN performance penalties. The problem is exclusively related to when the R7800 is the primary router and is directly connected to the Verizon ONT.

I called and talked to tech support at Netgear.
The person that I talked with was polite and seemed genuinely was trying to be helpful. Unfortunately, in the end he was unable to resolve the problem.

From my perspective as a software developer he was more interested in checking off a list of predetermined checks rather than listening to how I defined the problem and the tests that I did to narrow down the issue.
For example, I clearly explained to him how I had R7800 configured and that I had my PC connected to a LAN port on the R7800 with an cat 5e ethernet cable.
He then wanted me to make changes to the router settings. His instructions were to change the wireless channel and other wireless settings. Seriously?

In the end I was unable to get this elevated to level 2 tech support for resolution and had to return the product. Time permitting I may purchase a different R7800 to make sure that it was not a hardware problem.

The R7800 looks like a promising 802.11ac wave 2 product that Tim's review ranked it as the #1 AC2600 router. In the end for me the very slow upload speeds are a show stopper.

Steve

Wow, I wish I saw this thread before I banged my head against this all night. I have the same exact issue, quantum gateway, R7800. I have tried everything. I will include some more details (sorry to drag up an old thread, but it is exactly relevant). I have tried it two ways.

Ethernet from ONT directly to R7800. It works as you expect, except I get 150/60 (down/up) instead of 150/150. The interesting thing is that is exhibits the same exact behavior when I put the FIOS gateway back, only as a bridge from the ONT to the R7800. It passes the external IP through and the R7800 gets an external IP as if it was directly connected to the ONT.

When connecting to the FIOS gateway as router, everything goes back to 150/150. Interestingly, the installer mentioned something about how they had to switch one for the twisted pairs around when they cable, due to a change in procedures. I would guess if that was really a factor, it would be all or nothing, rather than a speed drop. I am at a loss, my R7800 may have to act as an expensive access point now.

 

[ahnfire]

Wow, I wish I saw this thread before I banged my head against this all night. I have the same exact issue, quantum gateway, R7800. I have tried everything. I will include some more details (sorry to drag up an old thread, but it is exactly relevant). I have tried it two ways.

Ethernet from ONT directly to R7800. It works as you expect, except I get 150/60 (down/up) instead of 150/150. The interesting thing is that is exhibits the same exact behavior when I put the FIOS gateway back, only as a bridge from the ONT to the R7800. It passes the external IP through and the R7800 gets an external IP as if it was directly connected to the ONT.

When connecting to the FIOS gateway as router, everything goes back to 150/150. Interestingly, the installer mentioned something about how they had to switch one for the twisted pairs around when they cable, due to a change in procedures. I would guess if that was really a factor, it would be all or nothing, rather than a speed drop. I am at a loss, my R7800 may have to act as an expensive access point now.

A couple of months later... after I had put down the setup and just used the quantum router... I finally got a chance to redo my network setup. I think I just needed to reset the Verizon ONT once, because now it all works and I get full 150/150 (down/up). I guess the moral of the story is to bounce the ONT as well. Happy days, I have my R7800 as my primary router (Verizon unplugged) and my own actiontec Bond MoCA 2 bridges for extended network plus FIOS TV.

 

[Razor512]

I currently use the R7800 as my primary router connected to the verizon fios ONT via Ethernet. The verizon router is then connected to the R7800 in a LAN to LAN config, and its DHCP server is turned off, and its LAN IP was changed to a different IP (192.168.1.10) so I could still access its web UI if needed.

While not needed any more since it does not work for keeping them from disabling the on screen caller ID after a few hours, I have the WAN MAC address set to be the same as that of the WAN port on the verizon router. I have a couple of routers configured this way since the ONT behaves strangely and performs poorly if it sees a different MAC address without being restarted first, and using the same WAN port MAC address on all of my routers,allows me to quickly swap out a router when I want to test 3rd party firmware with minimal internet connectivity downtime.

I have QOS enabled and experience no reduction in upload throughput. The ports I have forwarded to my fios DVR are 69, 1701, 35000, 63145.

So far the only issues I have are to do with the remote DVR and on-screen caller ID. If I connect the verizon router as the main router for a few minutes, and then switch back to the netgear router as the, remote DVR and onscreen caller ID will work perfectly for a few hours, then it will suddenly stop working.

 

[ahnfire]

Ah interesting. I was trying to get my caller ID working and it was not. I don't get many calls on the verizon line anyway... but it would be nice. What is remote DVR? I think I was able to access my DVR to make recordings while outside, but maybe not. I will have to double-check that.

 

[Razor512]

Ah interesting. I was trying to get my caller ID working and it was not. I don't get many calls on the verizon line anyway... but it would be nice. What is remote DVR? I think I was able to access my DVR to make recordings while outside, but maybe not. I will have to double-check that.

The remote DVR function is when you use the fios mobile app or the verizon website to set recordings on your DVR and edit scheduled recordings. When not using their router at the main, at best I can get it working for a few hours before they disable it. I wish there was a way to fully trick their network into thinking that I am still using their router as the main one.

While I don't really have an urgent need for those features, and likely won't need it, I would prefer to just have them just in case. Overall, really feels like verizon is being petty and finding small ways to punish users for not using their router.

It just makes me wonder what verizon gains from it. I know that some smart TVs will gather info on the devices on your LAN and then sell that info, I wonder if verizon does the same, as they really shouldn't need to push people to use them unless it somehow benefited their "Relevant advertising program".

 

[ahnfire]

The remote DVR function is when you use the fios mobile app or the verizon website to set recordings on your DVR and edit scheduled recordings. When not using their router at the main, at best I can get it working for a few hours before they disable it. I wish there was a way to fully trick their network into thinking that I am still using their router as the main one.

While I don't really have an urgent need for those features, and likely won't need it, I would prefer to just have them just in case. Overall, really feels like verizon is being petty and finding small ways to punish users for not using their router.

It just makes me wonder what verizon gains from it. I know that some smart TVs will gather info on the devices on your LAN and then sell that info, I wonder if verizon does the same, as they really shouldn't need to push people to use them unless it somehow benefited their "Relevant advertising program".

Working in IT, I get what they have to gain. Less configurations (well... less than the combination of any/all routers on the market) to support in their setups and applications. They would need to increase the effort to give us few the added functionality, which would increase cost, sacrifice something else they are working on... and then they need to have more maintenance staff to increase support of our more complicated setups. That all translates into increased costs which typically do not go back to the shareholders in decreased profits and lower stock prices... but is often passed on to consumers, followed by the typical uproar of hiking prices. So TLR, not worth it.

Anyway, my ability to program my DVR seems to work fine, but I never see the caller ID. I will cut my losses here, I am just happy with my speed across the board at the moment. The one way to get everything to work would be set up a second subnet, but I do not want to sacrifice the speed I have to today by creating a new subnet with double-NAT, etc etc.