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Review Request, Amahi and Marvell Plug computer

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zedpol

Occasional Visitor
Hey Tim, I really enjoy your site. Built a DIY ubuntu server/nas with webmin a while back after reading your articles. The tinkering itch has come over me again and in my search I ran across two things that I thought might be of interest to your readers.

http://www.amahi.org/ application built over fedora to manage a network. Looks like they have taken the application approach to extend functionality. Seems like it would take some of the hassle out of trying to get stuff working on a linux box.

http://blog.amahi.org/2010/08/11/amahi-for-the-marvell-plug-computer-released-get-yours-free/ Kirkwood 1.2ghz plug computer with SATA ports. 99 bucks, has a little community around it and is supported by amahi.

Anyways, would love to see your take on these things.

-zedpol
 
Amahi is on our radar. Will probably do something on it in the near future.
 
I second this request! :) With the demise of Drive Extender from WHS, Amahi with its Greyhole technology might be the next best thing!

Looking VERY much forward to a review! :)
 
I second this request! :) With the demise of Drive Extender from WHS, Amahi with its Greyhole technology might be the next best thing!

Looking VERY much forward to a review! :)

Bart,
I'm honestly surprised it took Microsoft that long to kill it. While I thought it was a great idea, Microsoft in my opinion is usually a couple years ahead of the curve when it comes to these things, and usually doesn't invest enough in furthering the tech after they deploy it. Look at how they've basically lost the media center market to the integrated devices, when they have probably the most mature solution in Windows 7.

About Amahi: I tried it out about 9 months ago, before they merged in the Greyhole project. I honestly wasn't impressed with their solution but that might be because I'm a tweaker by nature. Amahi makes a lot of assumptions about a network set up, and it expects to be the center of the network's universe, with DHCP and DNS services being managed by the Amahi server. Since I already have a perfectly good DHCP and DNS server in my linux router, I really didn't want to muck up my setup, and amahi just seemed unhappy when I started trying to shut things off and uninstall things. I ended up shelving it and buying a Dell Mini 9 to host my file shares from (which is due for replacement as I just replaced my two switches with gigabit switches). What ultimately did it in for me was Amahi broke after an update to some package in fedora :(

That all said, that was 9 months ago, and 2 fedora versions back. I would definitely research it before jumping in, as it doesn't seem to have changed a great deal with regards to the "center of the network universe" approach. I have not played around with Greyhole much, but looking at its architecture, it would be interesting to see what performance impact there is since it's working its magic using Samba. I'm sure SNB/SCB will take a look at it soon ;-)
 
Matt,

From what I've read, you have the option now. When you setup the system, at a certain moment Amahi will ask you if you want to use Amahi for DHCP and DNS, only DNS or none of both. While I can see why they would like you to use Amahi for both DHCP and DNS (it does have certain advantages), I don't think I'll use it that way simply because I won't have this server running 24/7. (I don't see the point in having a home server running in the hours I'm in bed or at work).

I also do hope it'll be easy upgradable if/when a new Fedora version is released though!

To be honest: Greyhole is the main reason I'm interesed in Amahi. Otherwise I would just use FreeNAS and be done with it. On the other hand the new FreeNAS beta supports ZFS which also supports some sort of drive pooling, but I don't know/understand how that works (yet), I'd have to look into it a bit further. FreeNas 8 is has undergone a complete rewrite but is still beta - can't find any reviews of it yet, sadly.

From what I've read, you're as curious about Greyhole as I am Matt. I'd say: go for it! :) (I'd do it myself but I can't for now - don't have a spare system handy at the time, not even a spare HD :( )
 
Bart,
Out of curiosity, any particular reason you would run this over a RAID solution? I know RAID adds in its own amount of management and headaches, like dealing with expanding the volumes and their subsequent partitions. But I was reading a little bit about Greyhole, and it almost feels like they have to jump through a bunch of hoops to attain data parity but without the speed benefits associated with RAID (since the drives aren't operating in a synchronized fashion).

Obviously price is a factor as a good hardware raid card can cost as much as say a drobo or a ReadyNAS. I've been watching FreeNAS8 develop for a bit, and I'm looking forward to seeing where it progresses. I liked FreeNAS over Openfiler back in the day, but then Openfiler redid their GUI and FreeNAS looked kinda "meh", haha.
 
Matt,

The reason I prefer a drive pool technology is because I don't like the downsides that come with RAID. I've used RAID in the past so I know what they mean. Ok, so RAID offers me the option of speeding things up a bit. Is that important to me, as a home user? No. This is simply data storage. If I wanted to speed things up, I'll put the server OS on an SSD, but harddisks are mainly storage for streaming/archiving pursposes. I don't need raw speed for that. About every harddisk nowadays offers about 100 MB/s or more which is more than sufficient, especially if you consider the maximum theoretical speed Gigabit ethernet offers (125 MB/s, which is never reached).

Just FYI: I've put Cat7 cable throughout my entire house so I could easily upgrade to 10 gigabit network speeds if I wanted to but I'll wait just a little bit longer until the prices of the necessary switches reach 'consumer levels'. Maybe then it would make sense to use RAID again for speed reasons, but on the other hand it would still not be necessary for the use I'm having for this server (streaming/archiving). Not even HD streaming requires that much amount of bandwidth.

RAID is also not very flexible when it comes to expanding the arrays. For one, you need every disk in the array to be the same size, type and preferably brand. This means if you use RAID5, with a minimum of three disks, and you want to increase the storage capacity, you'll need to buy at least three new disks, AND most likely you'll scrap the three you had because you'll have no more use for them. That is wasteful and a shame.
Not to mention that, if you upgrade an array by pulling a disk from it and upgrading it with a larger one, then having the array rebuild itself and repeating this until you've done all the disk in the array takes A LOT of time. Probably days! I don't have that much patience! :) unRAID is different when it comes to this, but I've read it also takes a lot of time to rebuild an array when it was compromised. Don't need that, don't want that.

What can be simpler than the way WHS did it? You want more storage? Pop in a new drive run the wizard and 30 seconds later the capacity of the drive is added to the pool. ALL of it! You want certain folders to be protected against drive failure because they hold important data? No problem: just select those folders and they'll be duplicated on different disks.

The only thing WHS lacked in my opinion was a decent backup facility. Sort of like doing an rsync to a second WHS. That would have been awesome.

I've never tried OpenFiler to be honest, so I can't comment on their GUI. It was on my to-do list, but I never got around to it. I did use FreeNAS before, but that was back in the 6.x days. It wasn't bad, but it clearly needed a bit more work. It was one of the main reasons I went with WHS in the end. Also -to be honest- because I couldn't be bothered anymore to tinker with it a lot at that time. Our son was born in that period, and spare time grew short... so I went with a MS solution. :)

Now, with regards to FreeNAS again... it seems that Olivier Cochard-Labbe, the original creator of FreeNAS stopped developing it and handed it over to IXSystems who have done a complete rewrite. The 8.x betas are the first results of this new code fork and it seems to come with a new GUI as well! I haven't used it yet though, will probably wait until the first reviews... but I AM curious to learn more about ZFS! :)
 
Greyhole sounds very interesting to me too. I like the idea of being able grow or shrink my drive pool easily and not having to have all the same size drives. Raid has always seemed too much of a headache to me since one has to sit down and really plan out their array and then it is pretty much set. On a side note Amahi looks interesting for some of its cloudish type services. AS much as I like the idea of "the cloud" i'm not hugely interested in someone else storing all my data. Anyone taken a look at http://www.tonido.com/ ? They seem to be targeting the cloud aspect of a home server more than amahi.
 
Hey Tim, I had stumbled upon that earlier today. Thanks for the review. When did you start smallcloudbuilder? Great website, killed an hour of my day quite happily reading reviews that finally addressed the questions I had about those various things. You would be amazed at some of the utter crap reviews that people pass off on the internet. Not a single one benchmarked transfer speed...killed me.

-e
 
SCB started up a month or so ago. It's still the early days, but thanks for the kind words. Please tell your friends!
 
... You would be amazed at some of the utter crap reviews that people pass off on the internet.
-e
I'm appalled over and over as I read PC World magazine and the product reviews. Apparently the magazine biz is so bad that they publish anything that a free-lancer sends in. The author, in almost all cases, is not competent to do the review. I guess the magazine pays $50 for the quarter page and is happy to use up some ink.

Worse are the magazines' lab tests and their scores. They give the equivalent of a C+ or B to a product that, in the text, they say is essentially unusable. They never do the service to their reader of publishing an "F" product. Perhaps it's due to advertising risks, or our berserk attorneys in the US.

PC Magazine also got this bad before they imploded.
 

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