RT-AX89X Firmware development lag

[ifisher]

Go to post #13.

I know there are options out there but the entire point of my post was not to compare Asus to other vendors but rather state that Asus is doing itself a disservice by leaving one of their higher-end models in the dust.

I don't use Asus routers anymore, but a small complaint I didn't mention about asuswrt was that they released firmware too often and each model had different release numbers.

Now I use a Ruckus AP, but it also seems to have a fairly frequent update cycle. 4-5 times a year.

Personally, I don't think frequent updates of network equipment is a good thing, as firmware updates can break down complex networks that are already configured.

Asuswrt has already reached a state full of various features compared to other companies.

Leave the initially configured network alone for a few years unless significant vulnerabilities are discovered.
I think it's a good network.

I've used Ruckus and other enterprise grade systems on the business side. With Ruckus (and others) you normally see vendors releasing hardware firmware on a longer cycle to address specific reliability and performance aspects while the management interfaces usually get separate updates (quicker or slower) to address feature enhancement and security vulnerabilities.

I'm sorry to say the approach of 'set it and forget it' is no longer a luxury we can afford in today's landscape. Take a look at Asus' own changelog and see how many security vulnerabilities have been patched in the last 18 months alone..

I noticed there's somewhat of an Asus fan club here that keeps praising Asus for half-baked features some of which are not really even a part of the core functionality of a gateway device. I bet they would not be so enchanted if they actually owned an RT-AX89x and used it.

For example, AiProtection is a joke. It's not a replacement for a proper deep inspection firewall and IPS, doesn't do SSL/TLS inspection, super easy to evade it proteciont (Google HTTP evasion), and generally no better than using reputation-based security-minded DNS service like quad9.

QoS capabilities are also quite basic (and have other usability challenges, especially on faster circuits).

At least on the RT-AX89X, most configuration changes cause the router to reboot. Kinda reminds me of how much I hated dlink for doing that.

Not to mention the "AiCloud" features which are so 20th century. With real cloud-based services (Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Google) offering superior performance, availability, and integration there's no real need for these.

Finally, features such as WPS, local SAMBA/Media server, UPNP, SIP ALG are all enabled out of the box reducing security and taking up resources.

I think the OP missed the point of why to buy a router.

On phones we use the OS every day, so there should be frequent updates there.

But on the router we use the network, so there's no reason to go after bloated new features when everything is working fine.






Of course you have the right to express your needs, but if you want to get frequent feature updates, maybe you should consider buying RT-AX86U. and the RT-AX89X just lets it do what it's supposed to do, providing powerful wifi and 10 Gbps ethernet.

I haven't missed the point. Asus is essentially forcing me to choose between hardware specs and updates that improve cybersecurity and solve useability issues. Personally, I could do without 80% of the bloatware Asus tacks on (part of it I already commented on).

As for the update speed, your router is the gateway to the internet, as such, it actually needs to be on the quickest update cycle to protect your network against an ever-changing cybersecurity landscape.

It's not that I don't appreciate of what Asus did with AsusWRT or the fact they have some of the best home-grade solutions. I am just voicing my frustration of Asus' blatant de-prioritization of the models I happen to own.

In any case, unless someone from Asus cares to explain why the RT-AX89x doesn't deserve the same level of service as other models I'm really not interested in hearing fan-boy excuses and some other ill-mannered arrogant remarks.

 

[Tech9]

leaving one of their higher-end models in the dust

This router is a failed attempt for high-end router. You had to do your homework better before buying it. Not a popular model.

For example, AiProtection is a joke. It's not a replacement for a proper deep inspection firewall and IPS, doesn't do SSL/TLS inspection

This is what RPi-like hardware with limited RAM can do. For proper IDS/IPS you need x86 CPU and more RAM. Hardware limitation.

 

[Odkrys]

I'm sorry to say the approach of 'set it and forget it' is no longer a luxury we can afford in today's landscape. Take a look at Asus' own changelog and see how many security vulnerabilities have been patched in the last 18 months alone..

Anyway, Asus fixes the vulnerability and releases the firmware.
It will be difficult to find a company in the consumer market that offers better software than Asus.

Surprisingly, that is true.

 

[ifisher]

This router is a failed attempt for high-end router. You had to do your homework better before buying it. Not a popular model.



This is what RPi-like hardware with limited RAM can do. For proper IDS/IPS you need x86 CPU and more RAM. Hardware limitation.

When I got mine, there were not much of an alternative. Even now there are very few comparable units. I didn't expect Asus to neglect this product. Having used Qualcomm-based products before in enterprise equipment, I never had issues with update cycles and I never had issues with Asus product update with previous routers I used.

As for the AiProtection, I know the hardware limitation issue, I tried using Suricata on some low-end hardware and quickly realized it's too resource intensive. What I meant is that Asus keeps tacking on half-baked features into their products, which makes them more vulnerable and hardware to maintain.
For example, if you enable AiCloud or Remote Management - you are asking for your home network to be hacked, especially with the way Asus implemented it.

Another example is VPN support - I'm sure a lot of people here are completely enchanted by Asus adding it - but in fact, it's a terrible idea. Adding an OpenVPN and Wireguard servers just makes the home router more of a target, and as we already seen - Asus commitment to timely patching of vulnerabilities is dodgy.

 

[ifisher]

Anyway, Asus fixes the vulnerability and releases the firmware.
It will be difficult to find a company in the consumer market that offers better software than Asus.

Surprisingly, that is true.

I know Asus is trying. It's just not doing a good enough job and just because the home-router vulnerability landscape is terrible doesn't mean we need to accept it, especially as more people work from home.

 

[sanke1]

One could easily convert the 10G SFP+ port to ethernet with a compatible adapter. Such a shame that God-Tier router like RT-AX89X is left in the cold due to Qualcomm Platform. But the blame lies on Asus alone for chosing that over standard Broadcom Platform.

The problem is I hate companies being stingy miser when it comes to 10 Gbe Ethernet ports. As if they are scared of stoppage of innvoation and end of the world for them if they released 10G ethernet port models in 2021-2022. When they do release them like Asus GT-AXE16000 and GT-AX11000 PRO, it will be unrealistic pricing like that of a super advanced highest tier CPU. I am ready to laugh hard when they do release pricing of those ones. Pretty sure you can get a full working medium/high tier PC without GPU in that price.

Just give me Wifi6 160Mhz (Dont need 6Ghz as it makes 0 difference) with four 10G LAN and one 10G WAN ports. But no..... these companies want to milk 1G and 2,.5G till the last drop and then move over to 5G first.

 

[L&LD]

All the comments here against Asus are just some people venting online. It doesn't directly affect Asus (at least, not for the model discussed). If the product was simply returned for refund and allowed to reflect in their bottom line (eventually), they would be keener to address some of the issues discussed here.

Ultimately, this is a two-year-old product right now, and still niche.

I have no doubt the firmware will be updated as needed for at least a few more years.

The products that will be introduced in this niche market will be improved versions.

This is just another example of buying into the marketing and hoping it will become the product you bought it for. Rather than set yourself up for that disappointment again, buy (and keep) a product for what it does out of the box for you. Regardless of what promises marketing (or your own assumptions) may make you believe will happen at some future time.

Use the equipment as-is and as provided, otherwise, sell it and buy commercial gear, today. Complaining about it on a corner of the web won't change the outcome one bit. Your buying power is your vote. Next time, use it more pragmatically.

 

[Yota]

I haven't missed the point. Asus is essentially forcing me to choose between hardware specs and updates that improve cybersecurity and solve useability issues. Personally, I could do without 80% of the bloatware Asus tacks on (part of it I already commented on).

As for the update speed, your router is the gateway to the internet, as such, it actually needs to be on the quickest update cycle to protect your network against an ever-changing cybersecurity landscape.

It's not that I don't appreciate of what Asus did with AsusWRT or the fact they have some of the best home-grade solutions. I am just voicing my frustration of Asus' blatant de-prioritization of the models I happen to own.

In any case, unless someone from Asus cares to explain why the RT-AX89x doesn't deserve the same level of service as other models I'm really not interested in hearing fan-boy excuses and some other ill-mannered arrogant remarks.

Let me be clear, this is your wrong choice, you are blaming asus or even some members for your wrong choice, which is not correct.

Asus always provides more frequent updates for their most popular routers for a number of reasons like more people use so they get more bug feedback to release new fixes, more people use so more after-sales resources are invested in the router.

Sure you might be pissed that you paid more than most people, but you get something that other people don't have, more powerful wifi, 10 Gbps, 2.2 GHz CPU, which seems reasonable to me, and I pretty sure these powerful hardware are all working fine even without a new update.

Also, there are two kinds of updates here, one is a security update and other one is a feature update, for security updates, I'm pretty sure you can trust Asus, because even products that have ended their life cycle can still get timely security updates after major vulnerabilities are discovered. This is something that almost every home router brand on the market has never done.

If you're looking for feature updates, all I can say is this is the wrong choice.

Finally, don't forget the selling price of other routers with 10 Gbps and see how much you paid to asus? In my opinion they offer incredible value for money for their product, considering it's even better compared to similar products, so I'd appreciate rather than complain.


edit:

Don't forget that almost everything the average consumer invests in a home router is in hardware, and firmware is more of a giveaway of some sort. If you really value firmware over hardware, then you should go for enterprise products that focus on delivering firmware.

 

[Tech9]

If you really value firmware over hardware, then you should go for enterprise products that focus on delivering firmware.

Then we'll hear complaints about the price, the color, the range, the setup... there is always something to complain about.

I want to know myself what's the perfect manufacturer with everything exactly as promised and delivered always on time.

 

[RMerlin]

The RT-AX89X is actually an exception here, which confuses things in this debate. The RT-AX89X and the BRT-AC828 look to me like special projects from Asus that are either to test the waters in a different market segment, or to fill a very small market niche. I suspect that neither of these got as frequent updates as all their other mainstream devices (which as I indicated are more or less on a 2 months update cycle) because of their status as "special projects", or because of very low sales which cannot justify devoting as much development resources as the rest of their lineup. The fact that they are Qualcomm-based is probably just one element in the equation here. Probably doesn't help because Asus's very Broadcom-centric, but I don't think it's the only reason.

 

[Yota]

Then we'll hear complaints about the price, the color, the range, the setup... there is always something to complain about.

I want to know myself what's the perfect manufacturer with everything exactly as promised and delivered always on time.

Exactly, there is no absolute perfect fit for everyone, what we can do is just understand our needs before buying, and then buy products that meet our needs.

Obviously the OP got a mistake with this choice, and of course he doesn't want to accept that it was his fault, so he's complaining here, trying to bring about improvement by complaining. I won't say it's useless, if all RT-AX89X consumers are complaining like this, then asus may value these needs, but in my opinion most consumers know their needs and are happy with their choices.

 

[dhendodong]

Until now i am still hoping and wishing that Merlin support ax-89x due to asus not addressing the current problems with it and thus alot of other users returning/exchanging it for other models due to the poor firmware implementation.

 

[RMerlin]

Until now i am still hoping and wishing that Merlin support ax-89x due to asus not addressing the current problems with it and thus alot of other users returning/exchanging it for other models due to the poor firmware implementation.

Not gonna happen as I don't work with Qualcomm devices. Plus, there's nothing I can do about anything related to wifi or the 10G controller.

 

[NSNE]

I'm no stranger to these forums or Asus networking products. I bought the AX89X based on its next-gen specs and my prior positive experience with Asus. It was a bit janky at the outset, like many previous routers I've owned, but it's been running relatively stably for a few months. The long gaps between security updates are what most concern me.

In principle, I think ifisher is perfectly justified in being miffed that Asus is letting the firmware languish for this model. Whatever excuse anyone wants to make on Asus' behalf (e.g., it's Qualcomm, it's a niche product, it's up to the consumer to divine Asus' long-term business plan), it doesn't change the fact that the firmware on this top-of-the-line router is several revisions behind contemporary models, and that's a disappointing state of affairs. Whataboutism and brand loyalty aside, can we not all agree that it's kinda uncool when a company releases a high-end product with a correspondingly high price tag and then deprioritizes it?

 

[ifisher]

All the comments here against Asus are just some people venting online. It doesn't directly affect Asus (at least, not for the model discussed). If the product was simply returned for refund and allowed to reflect in their bottom line (eventually), they would be keener to address some of the issues discussed here.

Ultimately, this is a two-year-old product right now, and still niche.

I have no doubt the firmware will be updated as needed for at least a few more years.

The products that will be introduced in this niche market will be improved versions.

This is just another example of buying into the marketing and hoping it will become the product you bought it for. Rather than set yourself up for that disappointment again, buy (and keep) a product for what it does out of the box for you. Regardless of what promises marketing (or your own assumptions) may make you believe will happen at some future time.

Use the equipment as-is and as provided, otherwise, sell it and buy commercial gear, today. Complaining about it on a corner of the web won't change the outcome one bit. Your buying power is your vote. Next time, use it more pragmatically.

When I bought mine, the other options weren't that great. I thought the GT-AX11000 was the niche product and poor value.
The AX-92U and AX-88U weren't all that impressive either with lots of issues reported. I pre-ordered mine since I really liked the hardware specs and historically I never had issues with Asus software update cycles. I didn't expect his model to be the black sheep of the WiFi 6 range... Probably should have waited for more maturity, but with the Covid pandemic starting and the increase of device usage I wanted something that would be able to handle the faster circuit and network loads.

In general, the 89X is a good router. Apart of one unit I had to replace due to early hardware issues, it's been pretty reliable although it has its quirks. The software updates on this model have been hit or miss.. but I guess you can say that about most software updates now days.

Before I got the 89Xs I considered going for enterprise equipment (proper firewall and managed APs) but I didn't feel like adding more workload to manage more infrastructure when I'm not working. However, as someone who has quite some understanding in cybersecurity, I can't ignore the implications of running a poorly maintained network gateway. Especially when Asus is literally advertising its vulnerabilities by releasing updates for AsusWRT on other models.

It's just too bad that Asus did such a great job selecting hardware (the IPQ807x/QCN5xxx is actually used by multiple enterprise APs) only to do so poorly on the software side..

In any case. I'm pretty sure the RT-AX89x will get an update in the next few days since the GT-AX6000 which is using a similar Qualcomm platform just got updated to 3.0.0.4.386.47629. However, despite the "curse of the Qualcomm platform" - seems like the GT-AX6000 is getting much more timely updates thus far - which just proves my point that Asus lagging on the RT-AX89X side is just a choice.. not a constraint by the platform..

 

[RMerlin]

the GT-AX6000 which is using a similar Qualcomm platform just got updated to 3.0.0.4.386.47629

The GT-AX6000 is based on a Broadcom BCM4912 (Broadcom's latest CPU).

 

[ifisher]

The GT-AX6000 is based on a Broadcom BCM4912 (Broadcom's latest CPU).

I stand corrected. I see on Asus website it's Broacom based. It's strange because Asus has a GT-AX6000 submission to the FCC with clear Qualcomm based chipset:
Microsoft Word - 18B0158R-RFUSP26V00 Report-華碩(GT-AX6000, GT-AC5400)-Version (V1.0)-15C(2.4G)(刪GX型號) (fcc.gov) - see pages 156-162.

So I guess it's the same trend Asus+Broadcom - good update cycle, Asus+Qualcomm - no luck.

 

[ifisher]

Let me be clear, this is your wrong choice, you are blaming asus or even some members for your wrong choice, which is not correct.

Asus always provides more frequent updates for their most popular routers for a number of reasons like more people use so they get more bug feedback to release new fixes, more people use so more after-sales resources are invested in the router.

Sure you might be pissed that you paid more than most people, but you get something that other people don't have, more powerful wifi, 10 Gbps, 2.2 GHz CPU, which seems reasonable to me, and I pretty sure these powerful hardware are all working fine even without a new update.

Also, there are two kinds of updates here, one is a security update and other one is a feature update, for security updates, I'm pretty sure you can trust Asus, because even products that have ended their life cycle can still get timely security updates after major vulnerabilities are discovered. This is something that almost every home router brand on the market has never done.

If you're looking for feature updates, all I can say is this is the wrong choice.

Finally, don't forget the selling price of other routers with 10 Gbps and see how much you paid to asus? In my opinion they offer incredible value for money for their product, considering it's even better compared to similar products, so I'd appreciate rather than complain.


edit:

Don't forget that almost everything the average consumer invests in a home router is in hardware, and firmware is more of a giveaway of some sort. If you really value firmware over hardware, then you should go for enterprise products that focus on delivering firmware.

I'm sorry but I can't agree with you.

First, I didn't blame anyone here. I just got pissed that people who don't even own this model started making excuses for Asus and some being very condescending about it.

As for the feature updates - I couldn't care less about almost all of those. I don't use 90% of the units' capabilities since they are half-baked. What I do care about is security, reliability, and performance. If you review the firmware changelog for each build you will find that many address security vulnerabilities - as such, Asus delaying the firmware for the RT-AX89X, for whatever reason, is quite annoying.

I don't care if other people pay less for the RT-AX86U or RT-AX82U. I was happy to pay the premium for the 10GbE interfaces and superior WiFi experience. I'm just pissed that Asus is constantly de-prioritizing the AX89x of the software front.

As for the value for money - it's not that high. When I got the AX89Xs they were close to the $600 mark each. That's on-par with some enterprise equipment. In fact, I specifically got the RT-AX89X over their direct competitor because historically Asus did a better job at releasing software updates for models I used in the past.

What's sad about this forum is that it seems members here are not advocating for themselves and fellow Asus customers - instead many here just blindly support Asus and offer quite unhelpful comments blaming me for choosing a router using the 'wrong' chipset or telling me to buy a different product or appreciate Asus just because some competitors are even worse when it comes to software updates.

Really, if you didn't have anything constructive to offer it would have been better to not comment at all.

 

[Killerbunbun22]

Released

RT-AX89X : 3.0.0.4.386_47027-g965d016
Firmware version 3.0.0.4.386_47027
- Release Note -

Bug fixes and improvement:
1. Add 10G base-T IPG GUI option.
2. Fixed few wireless compatibility issues.
3. Fixed extend NSS not be synchornized to mesh node, and set to be default enabled.
4. Fixed open vpn related issues.
5. Fixed lets encrypt related issues.
6. Fixed AiMesh related issues.
7. Fixed minor GUI bugs and strings.
8. Update dual wan network monitor machanism.
9. Fixed AiCloud related issue.
10. Fixed DDNS related issues.

Security fixes:
1. Fixed authenticated stored Cross Site Scripting.
2. Fixed json/plc/port file traversal and stack overflow vulnerability.
3. Fixed httpd add line break to the command injection checklist.
4. Fixed httpd unauth DoS.
5. Fixed arbitrary file reading vulnerability.
6. Fixed HTTP smuggling.
7. Fixed stack overflow vulnerability.

 

[ifisher]

Then we'll hear complaints about the price, the color, the range, the setup... there is always something to complain about.

I want to know myself what's the perfect manufacturer with everything exactly as promised and delivered always on time.

Customers buy products for different reasons and Asus, like others creates products targeted at these markets. There's no perfect model or perfect manufacturer. It depends on what your needs are.

For example, if you have a very big home and no technical knowledge you are far better off using other makes and modesl.
If you are a gamer looking to minimize latency jitter - you choose accordingly.

I think one area where expert advice online is helpful - is to learn from other people's experience and choose the right model for you.