RT-N66U Acces Point or Double Nat?

[rsnhakan]

Hi there,

I want to use as much features as my Asus router does offer, but atm I can't (it's setup as Acces Point). The reason why it's setup as an AP is because I don't want any IP adress conflicts.

Is there someone who can make me clear how to setup the Asus router which makes me use as much features as it offers?

 

[CaptainSTX]

Hi there,

I want to use as much features as my Asus router does offer, but atm I can't (it's setup as Acces Point). The reason why it's setup as an AP is because I don't want any IP adress conflicts.

Is there someone who can make me clear how to setup the Asus router which makes me use as much features as it offers?

You will need to put the ASUS router in a double NAT setup to use it as a router and utilize all its features. Not a problem unless you have some unusual needs. Put each router in its own subnet, enable the DHCP server on the ASUS and instead of connecting the cable to a LAN port on the ASUS from the first router connect it to the WAN port.

 

[rsnhakan]

You will need to put the ASUS router in a double NAT setup to use it as a router and utilize all its features. Not a problem unless you have some unusual needs. Put each router in its own subnet, enable the DHCP server on the ASUS and instead of connecting the cable to a LAN port on the ASUS from the first router connect it to the WAN port.

It's already connected through the WAN port. What kind of unsual needs are we talking about? How can I setup a router in Double nat?

 

[CaptainSTX]

It's already connected through the WAN port. What kind of unsual needs are we talking about? How can I setup a router in Double nat?

Anything that requires access to certain resources on the subnet of the double NATed router. VPN server (client works easily ). Many services can be reaced on the second network but it sometimes requires double port forwards. Dynamic DNS won't work since the second subnet's router has a private IP.

Most everything can be worked around or designed around but you need to be aware of the issues. I find for my situation it works well. The impact on speed and latency are minimal.

 

[ColinTaylor]

The reason why it's setup as an AP is because I don't want any IP adress conflicts.

Can explain more about these IP address conflicts you think you might have? Conflicts with what?

How can I setup a router in Double nat?

Just by switching from AP mode to router mode will create the double-NAT situation with the other router you have connected to the WAN port. You haven't said what router (make/model) you have connected to the N66U, or how it is configured.

 

[CaptainSTX]

When you correctly set up two or more routers in a double NAT arrangement you make sure that each of the routers is in its own subnet and it assigns LAN IP from that subenet. For example Router 1 192.168.1.1 Router 2 192.168.2.1. Router 2 will get its WAN IP from Router 1.

 

[rsnhakan]

The reason why I want my Asus RT-N66U in "DHCP mode" is because in AP mode it seems to work slower (higher ping according to speedtests and my experience). It's connected to the router of our ISP, a Arcadyan VGV7519.

"IP adress conflicts" --> like that two devices get the same IP and don't work well. I want a setup that makes work everything as fast as possible. Will I see a difference by changing the mode of my Asus router?

 

[CaptainSTX]

The reason why I want my Asus RT-N66U in "DHCP mode" is because in AP mode it seems to work slower (higher ping according to speedtests and my experience). It's connected to the router of our ISP, a Arcadyan VGV7519.

"IP adress conflicts" --> like that two devices get the same IP and don't work well. I want a setup that makes work everything as fast as possible. Will I see a difference by changing the mode of my Asus router?

If it is setup correctly in either mode it should have a minimal effect on your latency. Anytime you add another segment/device to a network it will take ms longer for the electrons to complete their trip.

When you setup the router and the AP did you put them each a a different and non over lapping channel?

 

[rsnhakan]

If it is setup correctly in either mode it should have a minimal effect on your latency. Anytime you add another segment/device to a network it will take ms longer for the electrons to complete their trip.

When you setup the router and the AP did you put them each a a different and non over lapping channel?

I disabled the Wi-Fi on the Arcadyan, so I can make optimal use of the Wi-Fi of the Asus router. But for example, when opening Spotify on my iPhone it says "connecting" for 1 second which was not the situation before. But on speedtests the speed is same/higher, but the latency is like 3-4 ms higher than before. How come?

Note: I changed my plan at our ISP, so that's why I have an extra router (the Arcadyan) --> I had this router not before. So now the setup is like: modem - Arcadyan router - Asus Router (AP), and before the Asus was directly connected to the modem.

And some other thing I noticed, sometimes my iPhone stops connecting to the Asus router and after it disconnected it connects automatically again.

 

[CaptainSTX]

I disabled the Wi-Fi on the Arcadyan, so I can make optimal use of the Wi-Fi of the Asus router. But for example, when opening Spotify on my iPhone it says "connecting" for 1 second which was not the situation before. But on speedtests the speed is same/higher, but the latency is like 3-4 ms higher than before. How come?

Note: I changed my plan at our ISP, so that's why I have an extra router (the Arcadyan) --> I had this router not before. So now the setup is like: modem - Arcadyan router - Asus Router (AP), and before the Asus was directly connected to the modem.

And some other thing I noticed, sometimes my iPhone stops connecting to the Asus router and after it disconnected it connects automatically again.

Justadding a router/AP to the mix would not increase the latency by 3 -4 ms. There is some other issue you need to identify and eliminate.

 

[rsnhakan]

Justadding a router/AP to the mix would not increase the latency by 3 -4 ms. There is some other issue you need to identify and eliminate.

Hmm.. there's nothing coming up in my mind what else could be the problem. We just added a Digital TV receiver to the Arcadyan router, that's it.

 

[CaptainSTX]

Hmm.. there's nothing coming up in my mind what else could be the problem. We just added a Digital TV receiver to the Arcadyan router, that's it.

If the ASUS is running just as an AP and its DHCP server is off, and it has a cable running from a LAN port on the
arcadyan router to a LAN port on the ASUS then all I can suggest is change the WiFi SSIDs on the ASUS and have all your clients forget the old profile. Second reboot the modem/router and the ASUS router. Third use a utility on a wireless client to survey your WiFi environment. Based on what you see you may want to change channels. You still might want to change channels just to be sure that something in your home isn't ruining your WiFi. Finally adjust the antennaes on your ASUS router to see if you can improve the signal. Also look at placing your router as high as possible and away from large metal objects, electronic devices such as your TV, etc.

 

[rsnhakan]

If the ASUS is running just as an AP and its DHCP server is off, and it has a cable running from a LAN port on the
arcadyan router to a LAN port on the ASUS then all I can suggest is change the WiFi SSIDs on the ASUS and have all your clients forget the old profile. Second reboot the modem/router and the ASUS router. Third use a utility on a wireless client to survey your WiFi environment. Based on what you see you may want to change channels. You still might want to change channels just to be sure that something in your home isn't ruining your WiFi. Finally adjust the antennaes on your ASUS router to see if you can improve the signal. Also look at placing your router as high as possible and away from large metal objects, electronic devices such as your TV, etc.

Hi CaptainSTX, the Asus router is connected through it's WAN port to the LAN port of the Arcadyan. In AP mode you can't turn on DHCP on the Asus, if I'm right. The Wi-Fi on the Arcadyan is off. But indeed, the Wi-Fi SSID is the same of my Asus router, but now it's running as an AP instead of PPPOE. This can make a difference in performance?

 

[ColinTaylor]

Hi CaptainSTX, the Asus router is connected through it's WAN port to the LAN port of the Arcadyan. In AP mode you can't turn on DHCP on the Asus, if I'm right.

Your setup is correct. CaptainSTX is describing a setup for routers that don't have a dedicated access point mode, which the Asus does.

The Wi-Fi on the Arcadyan is off. But indeed, the Wi-Fi SSID is the same of my Asus router, but now it's running as an AP instead of PPPOE. This can make a difference in performance?

If you reuse the same SSID when changing access points the settings on the clients can be non-optimal. As CaptainSTX said, the way around this is the delete and recreate the wireless profiles on the clients, or set them up from scratch using a different SSID.

You could try running a ping from a wireless laptop to the Asus access point and then again to the Arcadyan router, that will show you the latency overhead for those two components.

 

[rsnhakan]

Your setup is correct. CaptainSTX is describing a setup for routers that don't have a dedicated access point mode, which the Asus does.
If you reuse the same SSID when changing access points the settings on the clients can be non-optimal. As CaptainSTX said, the way around this is the delete and recreate the wireless profiles on the clients, or set them up from scratch using a different SSID.

You could try running a ping from a wireless laptop to the Asus access point and then again to the Arcadyan router, that will show you the latency overhead for those two components.

I understand. And the clients are like phones, laptops, computers? Is there a way to fix this problem without changing SSID? Because many (friendly) people use our Wi-Fi when they come over..

Can I fix it by restoring firmware on the Asus router?

 

[ColinTaylor]

I understand. And the clients are like phones, laptops, computers? Is there a way to fix this problem without changing SSID? Because many (friendly) people use our Wi-Fi when they come over..

Can I fix it by restoring firmware on the Asus router?

Yes, clients are phones, laptops, etc. But we're only suggesting it might be the source of the increased latency. To be honest, it would seem very unlikely.

As I said before, if you run a ping from a wireless laptop to the Asus and then do the same to the Arcadyan you can then compare the two. That will tell you what the latency overhead is.

I'd be more suspicious of the digital TV receiver than the Asus. How is the TV receiver connected to your network? Have you tried disconnecting the TV receiver and seeing if that improves things?

 

[rsnhakan]

Yes, clients are phones, laptops, etc. But we're only suggesting it might be the source of the increased latency. To be honest, it would seem very unlikely.

As I said before, if you run a ping from a wireless laptop to the Asus and then do the same to the Arcadyan you can then compare the two. That will tell you what the latency overhead is.

I'd be more suspicious of the digital TV receiver than the Asus. How is the TV receiver connected to your network? Have you tried disconnecting the TV receiver and seeing if that improves things?

Thanks for your effort to write! The digital TV receiver is connected as follow: from the Arcadyan a LAN cable is going to a switch. I have connected the digital TV receiver to this switch and two other (internet) devices.

,The rest of all clients are connecting through the Asus.

 

[grifo]

Hi all, I'm adding to this thread as I'm in a similar situation, please let me know if I should create a new one.

I bought an RT-AC87U to use as an access point to extend my ISP router's wifi coverage because I thought I could also have it run DDNS and an OpenVPN server, only to find out that it won't do those things in AP mode.

So I resigned myself to use 2 subnets and double NAT but I'm getting some roadblocks. I can't get clients connected to the ISP router's LAN (192.168.1.0/24) to talk to servers connected to the Asus' (192.168.10.0/24), for example a VNC server.

I created nat-start and firewall-start scripts with the below rules but the VNC session isn't starting, though the scripts are being executed (the NAT rule is showing on the virtual servers list and I can ping the devices on the Asus LAN).

iptables -I VSERVER -t nat -p tcp -m tcp -s 192.168.1.2 --dport 5900 -j DNAT --to-destination 192.168.10.20:5900

iptables -I FORWARD -p tcp -s 192.168.1.0/24 -d 192.168.10.0/24 --dport 5900 -j ACCEPT
iptables -I FORWARD -p icmp -s 192.168.1.0/24 -d 192.168.10.0/24 --icmp-type 8 -j ACCEPT

I realize I need double port forwards and I've tried a few iptables NAT rules to no avail.

I'd appreciate any examples of nat/firewall scripts that I can use to connect to the servers. I'd also like to set up the Asus as an OpenVPN server. For DDNS I'm using the script from this SNB thread which is working up to a point, I've also posted on that thread.

 

[CaptainSTX]

While I'm sure someone will be able to help you, in the meantime have you considered reversing the order of the routers and making the AC87 the internet facing router? With it being on the www both your server and DDNS will work with no iptables modification needed. Another advantage is the AC87 is probably a more powerful/ faster router than the run of the mill ISP's router.

Of course if the ISPs router is a combination modem/router just forget my solution.

 

[grifo]

Hi, thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. I'd love to do that but unfortunately I can't, it's an FTTH router with an optical interface and the fiber connected to it. I can't use the ISP router as a bridge only either as then I'd lose the voip service.