[SOLVED] Router for 20+ devices streaming video: RAM or CPU is more important?

[rtn66uftw]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the market for a router that can handle around 20+ devices streaming video constantly 24/7. My current router - RT-N66U randomly loses connection and needs rebooting 2-3 times a day which is quite annoying. I couldn't find any buying guide that is specifically to my need. Also there isn't any discussion on which is more important: RAM or CPU when choosing router for multiple devices. Can anyone share your knowledge on this topic?

My budget is less than $120. Any router suggestion would be appreciated! Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[System Error Message]

it really depends on how much bandwidth you're using and hardware acceleration will help in this case.
If you're having 20+ devices streaming all the time than this isnt a normal home or consumer use in which case, have you considered wiring them to a switch and using a good wired only router or even pfsense?

As an AP ram and CPU arent important. As a router using hardware acceleration neither is important too. RAM is only important if there are many connections/routes if NAT is being done in software.

 

[L&LD]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the market for a router that can handle around 20+ devices streaming video constantly 24/7. My current router - RT-N66U randomly loses connection and needs rebooting 2-3 times a day which is quite annoying. I couldn't find any buying guide that is specifically to my need. Also there isn't any discussion on which is more important: RAM or CPU when choosing router for multiple devices. Can anyone share your knowledge on this topic?

My budget is less than $120. Any router suggestion would be appreciated! Thanks a lot in advance!

For your budget, the RT-AC56U is the only product worth trying (with RMerlin firmware, of course).

What I was going to suggest before I saw your budget was an RT-AC3100, RT-AC88U or the tri radio RT-AC5300 (if you have many 5GHz clients). But at the lower budget, if the RT-AC56U with RMerlin's (or his forks thereof) firmware doesn't work, I doubt anything will.

Btw, ram and processor power is important; they are dependent on each other to perform any task.

http://homepage.cs.uri.edu/faculty/wolfe/book/Readings/Reading04.htm

Before an instruction can be executed, program instructions and data must be placed into memory from an input device or a secondary storage device (the process is further complicated by the fact that, as we noted earlier, the data will probably make a temporary stop in a register). As Figure 2 shows, once the necessary data and instruction are in memory, the central processing unit performs the following four steps for each instruction:

No computing is possible unless ram is available. The more powerful the processor and the more ram it has access to, the faster they can work to accomplish whatever they were programmed to do.

 

[rtn66uftw]

it really depends on how much bandwidth you're using and hardware acceleration will help in this case.
If you're having 20+ devices streaming all the time than this isnt a normal home or consumer use in which case, have you considered wiring them to a switch and using a good wired only router or even pfsense?

As an AP ram and CPU arent important. As a router using hardware acceleration neither is important too. RAM is only important if there are many connections/routes if NAT is being done in software.

For your budget, the RT-AC56U is the only product worth trying (with RMerlin firmware, of course).

What I was going to suggest before I saw your budget was an RT-AC3100, RT-AC88U or the tri radio RT-AC5300 (if you have many 5GHz clients). But at the lower budget, if the RT-AC56U with RMerlin's (or his forks thereof) firmware doesn't work, I doubt anything will.

Btw, ram and processor power is important; they are dependent on each other to perform any task.

http://homepage.cs.uri.edu/faculty/wolfe/book/Readings/Reading04.htm

No computing is possible unless ram is available. The more powerful the processor and the more ram it has access to, the faster they can work to accomplish whatever they were programmed to do.

Thank you @L&LD and @System Error Message for helping! I forgot mentioning that all streaming devices are phones running streaming apps. They average about 400-600 Kbps. Thus wiring them is not an option for me.

While looking at RT-AC56U on Amazon, I also saw the RT-AC66U and TP-Link Archer C9 that are also less than $120 (used, very good condition). Would they be a better buy than the RT-AC56U? And will I need to use QoS as well?

 

[System Error Message]

For your budget, the RT-AC56U is the only product worth trying (with RMerlin firmware, of course).
Btw, ram and processor power is important; they are dependent on each other to perform any task.

http://homepage.cs.uri.edu/faculty/wolfe/book/Readings/Reading04.htm




No computing is possible unless ram is available. The more powerful the processor and the more ram it has access to, the faster they can work to accomplish whatever they were programmed to do.

This isnt the case for hardware accelerated tasks such as networking where a packet that from NIC is sent to a processor/unit that processors it and sends it back out. It isnt stored in RAM and RAM isnt used, the details of the packet are stored in the immediate memory on the CPU before being sent out again. routes or tables are stored in the CPU cache during that state and because very little data is used to represent the table or fits in the cache. How do you think switches work with only 2 MB of CPU cache? This is why RAM and CPU arent important for an access point because the CPU and RAM of the wifi and network card are being used instead with the CPU just redirecting data as it goes in and out. The CPU only need to be fast enough to keep the NICs fed for bridging. The reason why RAM isnt important for an AP is because very little data is kept in RAM as data is always being replaced and the same reason as a switch you could just allocate a fixed amount of RAM enough to keep things fed.

But for a router it is important because routers store tables and other information. Information that travels between RAM and CPU causes a performance hit if it has to do so many times.

The AC66U is fine as an AP but not router as it only has a single core MIPS CPU. the AC56U has a dual core ARM and a newer wifi chip. Better to buy the AC56U and no you dont need QoS with streaming because streams use only a fixed amount of bandwidth so hardware acceleration would be better.

 

[rtn66uftw]

This isnt the case for hardware accelerated tasks such as networking where a packet that from NIC is sent to a processor/unit that processors it and sends it back out. It isnt stored in RAM and RAM isnt used, the details of the packet are stored in the immediate memory on the CPU before being sent out again. routes or tables are stored in the CPU cache during that state and because very little data is used to represent the table or fits in the cache. How do you think switches work with only 2 MB of CPU cache? This is why RAM and CPU arent important for an access point because the CPU and RAM of the wifi and network card are being used instead with the CPU just redirecting data as it goes in and out. The CPU only need to be fast enough to keep the NICs fed for bridging. The reason why RAM isnt important for an AP is because very little data is kept in RAM as data is always being replaced and the same reason as a switch you could just allocate a fixed amount of RAM enough to keep things fed.

But for a router it is important because routers store tables and other information. Information that travels between RAM and CPU causes a performance hit if it has to do so many times.

The AC66U is fine as an AP but not router as it only has a single core MIPS CPU. the AC56U has a dual core ARM and a newer wifi chip. Better to buy the AC56U and no you dont need QoS with streaming because streams use only a fixed amount of bandwidth so hardware acceleration would be better.

Thanks again! I've looked at the reviews for RT-AC56 and its weak 2.4GHz band really bothers me as all phones I'm using are 2.4GHz band compatible only :/. Don't know if there has been a firmware fix for it recently. Maybe I'll have to wait for RT-AC68U price to drop a little bit lower. Right now it's just too expensive for me

Cons:
- 2.4GHz frequency, more specifically the 802.11N implementation is seriously FLAWED and not usable until ASUS fixes the issue.
- Clients drop connection on 2.4GHz 802.11N connection after about ~50MB of data is transferred. Router seems to go into low power mode, causing either drastic speed reduction (to say 1mb) or link loss/fade.
- I discovered that turning off the 2.4GHz N specification fixes the link fade / low power issue. Unfortunately you'll only be able to use b/g mode but it works well.
- latest firmware from 11/2013 does not fix the problem with 2.4GHz N disconnect flaw.

Final thoughts:
Overall this router has a lot of potential. The WAN connection is very stable and has not dropped in the two weeks I've used it. My netgear WNDR 3400v2 would lock up once a week or bi-weekly which required a reboot. No problems with this ASUS RT-AC56U in that department. The deal breaker here would be if you need to use the 2.4GHz 802.11N capabilities with the RT-56U as it is simply broken. I am using this router with 2.4GHz N disabled, because I use 5GHz AC normally. I also use my older netgear WNDR 3400v2 as an extra AP with 802.11N enabled on that - so the broken 2.4GHz N on the ASUS doesn't really affect me like it might others. Finally, for the price and if you only need 5GHz AC performance - this is still the cheapest and more stable the router to buy IMHO. Many people are affected by the 2.4GHz N flaw. Understand that you will be too (it's not an isolated incident) and make an informed decision.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/RJW1URBTZ5/?tag=snbforums-20

 

[thiggins]

Let's see. 20 devices constantly consuming 0.5 Mbps each is about 10 Mbps. That should be doable in 2.4 GHz, even with 1x1 (N150 class) devices, which the phones probably are.

But if any of the devices have low signal, that will severely cut into available bandwidth.

You can experiment by putting all the phones in the same room as the router and see if you still have the problem.

Moving to any AC router could help due to better radios with improved airtime management.

 

[Hawk]

If budget was not issue I would suggest Asus Rt-AC68U, I have connected as much as 35 devices and yes this router can handle without any problem. Most of the devices were Ipad, iPhone, android and other mobile devices.

Most of them were streaming and used as VOIP. In my humble opinion it is very capable router.

 

[rtn66uftw]

Let's see. 20 devices constantly consuming 0.5 Mbps each is about 10 Mbps. That should be doable in 2.4 GHz, even with 1x1 (N150 class) devices, which the phones probably are.

But if any of the devices have low signal, that will severely cut into available bandwidth.

You can experiment by putting all the phones in the same room as the router and see if you still have the problem.

Moving to any AC router could help due to better radios with improved airtime management.

Thanks for the suggestion! I tried that before with both Tp-Link WDR3600 and Asus Dark Night but it didn't help. This time I'll give an AC router a try

If budget was not issue I would suggest Asus Rt-AC68U, I have connected as much as 35 devices and yes this router can handle without any problem. Most of the devices were Ipad, iPhone, android and other mobile devices.

Most of them were streaming and used as VOIP. In my humble opinion it is very capable router.

Great! Thanks for the heads up! I'm looking for an used one on eBay. Seems like with $100, I would be able to grab one

 

[thiggins]

Have you checked your streaming source for problems?

 

[rtn66uftw]

Have you checked your streaming source for problems?

Yes, the source is fine most of the time. I usually check it using my phone data plan to ensure it's working. Thanks for asking!

 

[Callipygous]

It's 6 dollars over your budget and used but the AC87R is for sale at 125.99 through "USA Supply Source" as a third party seller on Amazon. I just got one from them with a DOA 2.4GHz band and they refunded and told me to keep/throw away the router. I can't really speak to its quality as I have no personal experience but reviews are mostly positive with Merlin's latest firmware. I've got another one on the way, hopefully fully functioning.

 

[rtn66uftw]

It's 6 dollars over your budget and used but the AC87R is for sale at 125.99 through "USA Supply Source" as a third party seller on Amazon. I just got one from them with a DOA 2.4GHz band and they refunded and told me to keep/throw away the router. I can't really speak to its quality as I have no personal experience but reviews are mostly positive with Merlin's latest firmware. I've got another one on the way, hopefully fully functioning.

Thanks for the info! However the review for AC87R doesn't look so good to me

As I said in the closing to Part 1, the RT-AC87U/R is an unfinished product, rushed to market when it should still be back in the lab being thoroughly debugged. If you want to put your faith in ASUS and Quantenna's ability to deliver on its "wave 2" 802.11ac features (1733 Mbps link rate and MU-MIMO), go ahead and give ASUS your money now. After all, being the first on your block to have a new toy is worth it, right?

Smart buyers, however, will cool their jets and either buy something else or wait another few months until MU-MIMO support is turned on and ASUS ships its matching EA-87 client. They better have 5 GHz performance sorted out by then. Because the RT-AC87 won't be the only four-stream AC router in town at that point.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...-asus-rt-ac87u-review-part-2?showall=&start=4

I think I will stick to AC1900 for now per Tim's advice

Our How To Buy A Wireless Router - 2015 Edition advises that AC1900 routers are the sweet spot right now. There is no benefit to be had with the current crop of first generation Quantenna-based 4x4 routers that are still waiting for their MU-MIMO enables. If you're in the mood to spend top dollar and have a busy WLAN with lots of dual-band clients, then AC3200 routers are the better bet. Just, again, don't expect them to improve range.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...3200-gigabit-router-reviewed?showall=&start=5

 

[Callipygous]

The AC68U / R is available for a similar price on Amazon used through third party sellers and is widely appraised as a reliable workhorse. I used it for a few months and strongly recommend it over the AC56U I'm currently using.

I'm not phased by buying used through Amazon as their customer service is great and they have always made things right by me. I've never paid return shipping; the only thing I've ever been charged is my time to deal with them, which is usually as simple as selecting a few drop down boxes on their website.

For the same price, I'm going to go with the AC87U/R over an AC68U/R because it seems that negative criticisms have dropped off since it was released in 2014. Whether that's due to people not using it anymore or the issues actually being solved through firmware; well I'll find out here soon enough. If you don't want to take that gamble, the AC68U seems like a fine alternative at the top end of your budget.

 

[rtn66uftw]

The AC68U / R is available for a similar price on Amazon used through third party sellers and is widely appraised as a reliable workhorse. I used it for a few months and strongly recommend it over the AC56U I'm currently using.

I'm not phased by buying used through Amazon as their customer service is great and they have always made things right by me. I've never paid return shipping; the only thing I've ever been charged is my time to deal with them, which is usually as simple as selecting a few drop down boxes on their website.

For the same price, I'm going to go with the AC87U/R over an AC68U/R because it seems that negative criticisms have dropped off since it was released in 2014. Whether that's due to people not using it anymore or the issues actually being solved through firmware; well I'll find out here soon enough. If you don't want to take that gamble, the AC68U seems like a fine alternative at the top end of your budget.

Yes. I often buy used/new off amazon and have great experience with their return as well. But sometimes the tax put me off. Anyway I've just bought a T-Mobile Personal CellSpot which basically is a rebranded Asus RT-AC68U off eBay for less than $100. Paypal free return promotion helps me decide to pull the trigger. Now I just need to find out how to flash Merlin's firmware on top of T-Mobile firmware. Wish me luck
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Wireless-Routers-/44995/i.html?_from=R40&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=T-Mobile+ASUS&_sop=15

Good luck with your AC87R as well!

 

[Callipygous]

Please report back on how that works!

 

[rtn66uftw]

If budget was not issue I would suggest Asus Rt-AC68U, I have connected as much as 35 devices and yes this router can handle without any problem. Most of the devices were Ipad, iPhone, android and other mobile devices.

Most of them were streaming and used as VOIP. In my humble opinion it is very capable router.

Please report back on how that works!

Ok so It has been more than a week since I got the T-Mobile TM-AC1900. I'm still using the stock firmware provided by T-mobile (will flash to Merlin later when it passes 30-day return mark). The wifi speed is so much better. Our AC-capable devices such as laptops and phones love it.

However I still have to reset the modem + router pretty much every 1-2 days. At this point I don't even know what to do. Would the modem (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ENFBC1Y/?tag=snbforums-20) be the reason for connection drop? or T-Mobile's firmware?

Any suggestion to find the problem? TiA

 

[pete y testing]

However I still have to reset the modem

can you or have you bridged the modem so it works as just a pure modem and run the router behind it in pppoe mode ?

does your isp use pppoe for its connection type at all

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reset the modem

if the modem is not bridged you are still using its router and ram and nat table etc and is why its still needing a reset as you mst be saturating its nat table

 

[rtn66uftw]

can you or have you bridged the modem so it works as just a pure modem and run the router behind it in pppoe mode ?

does your isp use pppoe for its connection type at all

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if the modem is not bridged you are still using its router and ram and nat table etc and is why its still needing a reset as you mst be saturating its nat table

Can you elaborate a little bit more? I'm pretty novice when it comes to these things. Anyway below is the screenshot of the WAN page. I once bought a new modem but it didn't work since my ISP only allow to use their provided modem

 

[pete y testing]

so

Can you elaborate a little bit more? I'm pretty novice when it comes to these things. Anyway below is the screenshot of the WAN page. I once bought a new modem but it didn't work since my ISP only allow to use their provided modem

the issue is the router steeings above mean its just piggy backing on the back of the modem whilst its also in router mode , this not only means you have dual wan , but your still using the modems router and why its having issues

what is the make and model of your modem and are you adsl or cable or other