Thoughts/Suggestions on Network Upgrade?

[SR-71]

I'm considering my next major home network upgrade. Would appreciate some thoughts/suggestions on where to go from here:

Current situation:

• ISP: coax 500/10 DL/UL (Comcast sucks on UL, but new ISP coming in soon, see below)
• ASUS RT-AX3000v1 router, centered and elevated in basement where coax enters (only dual-band), purchased mid-2020
  • Compact size is nice as larger routers would be too large for the space it's on without replacing that too
• Work from home (~2000-2300 sq ft. mid-sized house and pushing the AX3000's range limit)
  • Work laptop/dock wired to router, rest of home is strictly WiFi.
• Supersaturated WiFi in neighborhood on 2.4GHz on all channels -- virtually unusable at edges of home, but wasn't this bad this until 6 months ago
  • Added low-cost TP-Link AC repeater for garage-side IOT (actually works well for this, saved $ for next upgrade, temp band-aid)
  • 5GHz band (full 160MHz) only has a few neighbors at far lower dB levels, not an issue so far. Use it for pretty much all our contemporary mobile/laptop/streaming devices but would like greater range
• Starting to see an occasional disconnect on my newer phones from the 5GHz band inside the house where it shouldn't be happening, reconnects fairly quickly on its own (usually in seconds, not daily occurrence, reason unknown)
• Mix of AX/AC/N devices across home, only 1 new mobile device has AX6E

Near Future considerations:

• Another ISP is expanding/building out their Gig fiber network in my neighborhood, ETA later 2024
• When available, full symmetrical DL/UL speeds at lower cost! (Oh yeah, can't wait! Competition is a wonderful thing.)
• Will likely start with 500 DL/UL plan and assess need to go up higher -- so having a multigig WAN port could be important at some point
• Was originally thinking of grabbing an AX-86U Pro on sale to mesh with the AX3000
  • Compact size would be great in same small surface space to be main unit, price is more reasonable now
  • Unknown whether usable range would be much more than the AX3000 by itself without meshing
  • Downsides: No wired backhaul is limiting on single 5GHz band, and no 6E or 7 support
• Looking for a compelling ASUS 6E or 7 product that's not cost prohibitive (many are overpriced right now IMHO) and not monstrous in size if possible
  • Although virtually all clients are only 2x2, I've read that 4x4 routers tend to offer better range/performance overall (is this true?)
• Really like the ASUS feature set and would be nice to reuse/mesh the AX3000 if needed, assuming it stays healthy
  • Ideally, this would require a 4-band router to meet legacy and future needs (2.4/5/5/6 GHz, for legacy 5GHz backhaul)
  • GT-AXE16000 looks promising but is quite large and pricey (currently)
• Not sure about their dedicated mesh systems (read mixed reviews and feedback on them, also quite pricey)
• Figure I might have 6 or so months to see what else ASUS releases, perhaps some price drops along the way.
  • Would be great to keep it under $300, but willing to consider more like $400-$500 if it truly would be worth it (has to check all the boxes).

Would greatly appreciate hearing thoughts and suggestions to inform my thinking on this, thanks. Might help others too.

 

[Tech9]

5GHz band (full 160MHz)

If you use 80MHz wide channel in 36-48 your usable range will increase and connection stability will improve. This may be enough to reduce the disconnections and you still get full ISP speed. Free "upgrade" with what you already have. Not sure why you are pushing for 160MHz (not supported by all devices + useless on phones/tablets + 3dBm less signal strength + better SNR required) and use of DFS range (not guaranteed, may work today and stop tomorrow after radar transmissions detection).

If you want to stick to Asus products most folks around will recommend you GT-AX6000 or RT-AX88U Pro models.

 

[PureSpeed]

You could go with the GT-AX6000 and then you can use that AX3000 as an aimesh node if needed. I have the GT-AXE16000 personally and while yes it’s pricey it’s an absolute beast and coverage is extremely wide with it or you could also go with the GT-AX11000 pro which is also an extremely strong performer and you can probably get it on a deal on Amazon I have been seeing it go on sale.

 

[SR-71]

If you use 80MHz wide channel in 36-48 your usable range will increase and connection stability will improve. This may be enough to reduce the disconnections and you still get full ISP speed. Free "upgrade" with what you already have. Not sure why you are pushing for 160MHz (not supported by all devices + useless on phones/tablets + 3dBm less signal strength + better SNR required) and use of DFS range (not guaranteed, may work today and stop tomorrow after radar transmissions detection).

If you want to stick to Asus products most folks around will recommend you GT-AX6000 or RT-AX88U Pro models.

Thanks, I considered that too (80MHz) and tried it again after you mentioned it (as it's been a long time). Was already running in that lower channel range (figured I might get a little more distance/stability that way when I first set it up).

Just like last time, whenever I step down to 80MHz, my DL speed drops by 100-150mbps as confirmed by multiple speed tests. So that's the trade-off here.

I was looking at the GT-AX6000 given all the great experiences/recommendations here. Really seems like it's in the sweet spot for now as one of the best bang for the buck. What's holding me back is the large size, no 6E/7, and still single 5GHz band. The latter is probably only important if I need to mesh my AX3000 wirelessly -- if the AX6000's range is sufficient, then I may not need to.

Question, when meshing two ASUS routers wirelessly on the same 5GHz band (no separate backhaul band used), does that only impact the speed of devices connected to the satellite node, much like with a repeater/extender? That is, do devices connected to the main/primary router still experience full speeds? Or does it impact performance for devices connected to both routers?

 

[SR-71]

You could go with the GT-AX6000 and then you can use that AX3000 as an aimesh node if needed. I have the GT-AXE16000 personally and while yes it’s pricey it’s an absolute beast and coverage is extremely wide with it or you could also go with the GT-AX11000 pro which is also an extremely strong performer and you can probably get it on a deal on Amazon I have been seeing it go on sale.

Thanks, I've been looking at the AXE16000 and the AXE/AX11000 Pro versions as well. Agree that the AXE16000 sure seems to be the one to beat for now in the pre-7 category (really liking the quad-band as it provides the 2nd 5GHz needed for my legacy wireless backhaul).

From what I can tell, it looks like it would check all my boxes except for its size. I'm hoping it will drop in price a bit more closer to the the time I'd need it. Just saw that it's already $100 off on Amazon. If I have to go bigger and have to find a way to make room for a beast model, then I might as well check all the boxes.

Now if they could just get the size down a bit, that would be perfect.

More generally, I'm truly disappointed to see ASUS' new direction on the USB ports. Where prior models sported dual USB 3.x ports, it looks like all the new ones have downgraded the 2nd port to USB 2.0.

That makes a huge difference if you're streaming content from external HD's. I've tested both modes on my AX3000 and USB 2.0 doesn't cut it. Sure, we can add a powered hub off the one good port (did that with mine), but still, what a gyp considering that the marginal cost is likely minimal on these more expensive models. If the 3.x port ever goes out (rare, but can happen), then we don't have a spare anymore.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Considering the basement placement, it's highly unlikely that the 6 GHz band is going to be of much use to you, as the range will be very poor after penetrating the floor.

Currently there are no affordable WiFi 7 routers that aren't severely gimped, i.e. 2x2 rather than 4x4.

The RT-AX86U Pro is a decent router and it's 4x4 in the 5 GHz due to on internal antenna in addition to the three external ones and it does 160 MHz channels. As such, it's not that different to the GT-AX6000 in terms of WiFi performance on the 5 GHz band, but it's somewhat weaker on the 2.4 GHz band.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Question, when meshing two ASUS routers wirelessly on the same 5GHz band (no separate backhaul band used), does that only impact the speed of devices connected to the satellite node, much like with a repeater/extender? That is, do devices connected to the main/primary router still experience full speeds? Or does it impact performance for devices connected to both routers?

Keep in mind that WiFi is is half-duplex, which means you can only transmit or receive data, unlike Ethernet that's full-duplex. As such, any data packets that are being sent over WiFi, has to finish transmitting before other packages can be received. There are obviously some smarts built in here, which can pause the transmits so the device can receive some packets in-between, but yes, a wireless backhaul isn't ideal even with a dedicated band, but gets even more congested using the same band as all other WiFi traffic. In other words, it doesn't just affect the satellite node, it affects all your WiFi devices. How much really depends on what you're using your WiFi for, but latency sensitive application will suffer for sure.

 

[PureSpeed]

in a mesh setup if you can go wired backhaul then definitely do it and you don’t need to run cat 6 everywhere to accomplish this. If you have coax cable in your home which most people do then go with moca adapters and use those with existing coax cables to utilize wired backhaul. Makes all the difference.

 

[bbunge]

The first task to work on is getting the router out of the basement. CAT5E cable is avaliable in various lengths at Home Depot, Lowes and other retailers. I recently bought a 100 ft CAT5E patch cord for $12.00. Ethernet cabling is not rocket science and there are plenty of how to videos on the web.
The AX86U Pro is a good router. I ran an AX86U for two years before it had hardware issues and I bought the Pro. Asus did replace the AX86U which I have used as an AiMesh node. After three years of pushing 160MHz, I have gone to 80MHz auto channel with DFS on 5GHz. Have had no complaints from others in the house. I also use 20MHz on channel 6 for 2.4GHz.

 

[glens]

• When available, full symmetrical DL/UL speeds at lower cost! (Oh yeah, can't wait! Competition is a wonderful thing.)
• Will likely start with 500 DL/UL plan and assess need to go up higher -- so having a multigig WAN port could be important at some point

I've been on sym. 500Mb fiber for several years and don't foresee "upping" it unless price dictates differently.

Not sure about their dedicated mesh systems (read mixed reviews and feedback on them, also quite pricey)

I'm running an un"meshed" pair of XT8s, wired. Hard to argue against being able to place one on a living-room end-table... Not that I'm necessarily suggesting you go that route, but I'm confident such a scenario would handily handle your use case. I've got ~1800 s.f. x2 and the only reason I picked up a GT-AX6000 at $230 was to be able to feed the l.r. AP @2.5Gb.

You'd realize absolutely no different experience between said GT and its sister, the RT-AX88U Pro, but large as the former is (and with garish antennas), the latter will actually require more shelf space in both directions. Either would very most likely "suffice" by itself if centrally-enough located. 4x4 radios do indeed surpass 2x2 when connecting to even 2x2 clients.

Not sure why you are pushing for 160MHz (not supported by all devices + useless on phones/tablets + 3dBm less signal strength + better SNR required)...

The beauty of it is that /any/ client will use only what it can of the channel width, and 80MHz clients will know absolutely nothing about any -3dBm of the something they're not using.

Seems there might've been more to address "so far" into the thread, but now I forget...

 

[Tech9]

and 80MHz clients will know absolutely nothing about any -3dBm of the something they're not using.

The total tx power limit applies to all the channels offered and reduced range will affects all the clients.

 

[glens]

Negative!

 

[L&LD]

The speed penalty is applied network-wide whenever a wireless backhaul node is being used.

 

[glens]

glens said:
and 80MHz clients will know absolutely nothing about any -3dBm of the something they're not using.

The total tx power limit applies to all the channels offered and reduced range will affects all the clients.

I believe the broadcaster operates in whichever mode it's connected during the send mode to said client. Capable-of-160 doesn't mean it transmits as-if-160 to a 40-associated client. Doesn't stand to reason otherwise.

 

[jerry6]

both my houses get full coverage using an AX1100 pro and AXE1100 one house is 3000 sqf the other 5500sqf they are brick with concrete basement , router placement makes a big difference , I would not place the router in the basement unless you have no choice . And the 160 band is next to useless if you are more than 10 feet from the router with a wall between client and router . Just my experience using the AXE 160 channel ,not worth much