To Merlin or not with a new ASUS device these days?

[Magebarf]

Hi guys!

I realize I might be in a slightly "biased" (probably a bit harsher wording than I really intend, hence in quotes), but I've just travelled back to ASUS land!
Last the Router/AP had the same logo was with their early 802.11n draft router (don't remember its name, but recall it was white and had that vertical standing tower form factor), so it was quite a time ago.
After a detour into Netgear equipment it was time for a new upgrade and that landed me with a AXE16000, which I guess should be a resonably capable device.

My only question is what are your recommendations on firmware choice for when you're picking up a new ASUS device in the recent years (assuming there already is Merlin availability for it)?
Do you leave it running on stock firmware to check stability etc. first, or do you go in blind, shifting over to Merlin without even exploring the stock firmware (or firmwares, as I'm guessing ASUS is relatively quick to release updates in the early phase)?
If starting out with stock/ASUS firmware, seeing as we're in the Merlin forum discussing, at what point do you consider switching over?

For my specific use case, the AXE16000, I've understood RMerlin using it as his "daily driver", so I'm not to worried about the Merlin comaptibility with the device, and I've also read some UI glitches that seems to be in the stock firmware but resolved in Merlin.
For now, I have heard some discussion that the latest Merlin firmware has some UI issues when operating in AP mode, which is what I'll be doing, so if this is possibly one reason for me to stay on stock for the time being.

All in all, it feels exciting to be back in the ASUS domain, and hope the jump from AC to quad band AX+6GHz will be quite the improvement!

 

[Tech9]

operating in AP mode, which is what I'll be doing

You want GT-AXE16000 router for AP Mode?

 

[Magebarf]

You want GT-AXE16000 router for AP Mode?

For the time being, yes. Current house only offers 1Gbps internet connection (did have 10Gbbps symmetrical connection prior to the move in 2019 ) , which my EdgeRouter Lite manages without any problems.
If they start offering something above gigabit, then I believe the AXE16000 might transition into the role of "full blown" router as well.

But, trying to pre-empt some of the questions I'm guessing may be coming down the line on this topic; Quad band (as I do have quite a bunch of 6GHz clients/devices already) in a single device is not available from any of the "proper" Access Points on the market today, which is why I'm going for the AXE16000 and running it in strapped down mode. Option then of course being to buy a bunch of Access Points to configure a similar setup, but that kind of defeats the simplicity of configuration.

 

[Tech9]

Your choice. You don't need Asuswrt-Merlin in AP Mode.

 

[L&LD]

'Managing without any problems' is not the same as doing it effortlessly or effectively.

Drop the Lite and use the AXE16000 to see what it's really capable of.

 

[Magebarf]

'Managing without any problems' is not the same as doing it effortlessly or effectively.

Drop the Lite and use the AXE16000 to see what it's really capable of.

Yep, worth consideration at least.

Although, 30-40% CPU load when running bandwidth tests (fast.com) achieving about 95% of the available bandwidth (rest of family is sleeping already so it's not a fully realistic test), would at least give half a tick in the effortlessly and effectively boxes.

Main reason I'm "reluctant" is the work put into getting the IPv6 working properly though DHCPv6-PD (on the ERL that is), but even so I believe that should be a lot less effort to get working properly on the ASUS.
Also testing any new tech out is fun, so that may also be a reason I'll explore it.

 

[Tech9]

What you need to know - Guest Network in AP Mode has no separation from main network in current official firmware. You have two options: 1) load Asuswrt-Merlin and modify custom scripts available for other models for VLAN support; 2) experiment with Asuswrt public Beta firmware with upcoming Pro features including VLAN support. First option needs scripting knowledge, second needs test firmware with no guaranteed results.

 

[Magebarf]

What you need to know - Guest Network in AP Mode has no separation from main network in current official firmware. You have two options: 1) load Asuswrt-Merlin and modify custom scripts available for other models for VLAN support; 2) experiment with Asuswrt public Beta firmware with upcoming Pro features including VLAN support. First option needs scripting knowledge, second needs test firmware with no guaranteed results.

Great insights! I have so far not had much use of guest networks, but I do kind of see the use case for it in the shape of the separate IoT network, which I’m guessing uses the same mechanism.

 

[Tech9]

This is where business class AP with native VLAN support is a better match to your EdgeRouter. I personally would never touch this overpriced "Gaming" spider with RGB lights and perpetual beta firmware regardless of how many bands it has. It has multi-Gigabit ports, but not the corresponding hardware inside. Relies on NAT acceleration hacks like all other home routers. Not sure why you want to use the entire Wi-Fi spectrum for your devices.

 

[Magebarf]

It has multi-Gigabit ports, but not the corresponding hardware inside.

Is it clear how the hardware block where the 10GbE ports (+2.5GbE as well I guess) are placed is connected? Are they part of a switch segment separated logically by the CPU when used in WAN and LAN modes, or are they independent physical interfaces connected to the SoC/MCU in such a way that traffic cannot be forwarded between the 10GbE ports without passing the CPU?

I mean, for proper routing the CPU involvement is necessary in one way or another (depending of what low level functionality is embedded in the HW block), while in the use case of using both 10GbE ports on the LAN side (e.g. being in AP mode) it would make quite the difference if they were in a switch segment capable of directly forwarding the traffic or if they were bottlenecked by going across the CPU.

 

[Tech9]

There is no routing in AP Mode. The local LAN traffic is switched. In AP Mode you basically get $700 switch with Wi-Fi. In Router Mode how fast WAN-LAN traffic will flow depends on firmware options you select. The CPU can do about 400Mbps, the rest is NAT acceleration. You hit an option incompatible with NAT acceleration and your router with 10GbE ports turns into up to 400Mbps capable. One example of such feature is simple Bandwidth Limiter on your Guest Network. If you really plan 2.5GbE ISP speeds or above look at x86 hardware firewalls with corresponding ports and pfSense/OPNsense OS. The more you want the more you pay. Your simple solution is just an expensive home router with tons of marketing around it.

 

[Magebarf]

This is where business class AP with native VLAN support is a better match to your EdgeRouter

Yep, fully understand that angle. This was also my initial aim, but that approach was made harder due to all of the actual AP’s supporting 6E/6GHz basically being unavailable on the Swedish market, and has been over the last half year.

The only one available is the Ubiquity Unifi U6 Enterprise, which I wouldn’t mind, but would need a major overhaul to get all of the cabling out to sort the PoE situation.

 

[Magebarf]

If you really plan 2.5GbE ISP speeds or above look at x86 hardware firewalls with corresponding ports and pfSense/OPNsense OS.

Yep, I’ve gone down this route in 2018-2019 when the symmetric 10gbps internet connection was a challenge. Switching everything in house was not too bad of a challenge (just throw some money on it), but for routing there was nothing really offering anything close to what was needed.

At that point I went down the VPP/fd.io route, but if I was to revisit it today I think TNSR would be worth exploring as well. x86_64 and DPDK (or Netmap/pf_ring etc.) is likely the most flexible approach, even though you can find some nice ARMs allowing for highly parallelized throughput as well.

 

[Tech9]

Honestly, I wouldn't invest in anything Wi-Fi 6E related when Wi-Fi 7 is coming out by the end of the year. Wi-Fi 6E doesn't really offer any speed advantages over Wi-Fi 6 unless you live in very Wi-Fi congested area. It has range and wall penetration disadvantages. I don't expect any new Wi-Fi 6E clients coming to the market. All consumer product manufacturers will rush with half-baked Wi-Fi 7 devices instead including home routers. As I said in another thread - investing in future is not in latest tech coming to the market, but in infrastructure. If you build the infrastructure you can get fast LAN and Gigabit Wi-Fi now with cheaper devices. Use it for few years, upgrade to cheaper then newer tech. First adopters pay the most and play beta testers.

There is a lot of false advertising on consumer market because it tolerates it. If you do that on business market your business won't go for very long.