Townhouse wifi coverage advice

[Trip]

7960p vs 86u -- Same CPU (1.8Ghz dual core), same amount of RAM, but the 7960p has a second 5Ghz radio, so you have the ability to dedicate one 5Ghz radio to bridging/backhaul and the other 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz radios just for clients.

That said, by going non-Asus with the second node, you give up AiMesh and its benefits, such as faster transition roaming and more centralized management. Not sure if you care about those enough at this point, though, but just worth noting.

As far as UniFi Mesh goes, it's meant more as a solution for scaling customer premise access (often outdoors) and is more of a solution to handle growing numbers of PtP backhaul paths, versus maxing out performance per client, as most consumer AIOs are built to do. This is evidenced by the APs themselves being simpler, dual-radio, 2x2 or 3x3 spatial stream, and the firmwares being optimized for ISP/MSP functionality. So while it's a great product, it's likely not the best fit in this scenario, given your goals and environment.

 

[Val D.]

Now I'm just wondering if the 86u would outperform the 7960p (costco exclusive).

RT-AC86U is a 4x4 AC router, R7960p is a 3x3 AC router, but dual 5GHz. In theory, RT-AC86U is capable of delivering faster speeds to a single client. It's your choice, real life performance of both will be very similar. I would go with ASUS just because of Asuswrt-Merlin support. Don't mix the equipment, go with one manufacturer, if you can. You can expect better compatibility. Make sure you can dedicate one of the 5GHz channels of R7960p for the wireless link, if you go with Netgear. Not all the routers have this option in firmware, I never played with R7960p. It's a Costco specific model, I usually buy food from Costco.

 

[neonJZA]

Thanks for the updates guys. So the Costco exclusive x6s doesn’t have the range of my old ac3100 somehow. It barely reaches my bedroom and I’m constantly buffering. Gonna return it today. At this point I’m thinking about just buying a mesh whole house WiFi system. Since my desktop is now hardwired, the only thing I’ll need the internet for is streaming and handling browsing on various devices. I’m wondering what would be the best solution here. I read Eero is the best, google is the cheapest, and Orbi pisses people off because they can’t specify what devices go on what band, so a lot of then report being stuck on 2.4 because of the way it handles allocation.

Anyone able to weigh in on the best mesh system for streaming and general browsing? I usually hate everything google but 3 pucks for $250 seems pretty fair.

 

[Val D.]

I’m wondering what would be the best solution here.

I'll leave this question to someone else to answer. I personally don't like any of the home mesh systems for many reasons. Most offerings have reduced throughput, increased latency, limited control, limited support, pollute the WiFi spectrum and are simply not necessary in many cases. They are primarily made to be plug and play, no clue what WiFi is user friendly, don't care about the others. A good router with 1-2 wired access points in right places gives better results and can cover very large areas.

 

[neonJZA]

I understand what you mean. And normally I think I would take that route. Unfortunately for me though setting up wired access points isn’t possible throughout my townhouse because of the way it was built. I’m stuck relying on wireless satellites.

 

[Trip]

I just want to confirm that you do or don't have coaxial runs available in the house. If you do, are there drops in places close enough to where you'd want to run your one or two APs? If yes to both, then running MoCa 2.0 or 2.5 adapters would be fairly reliable way to create your a wired backbone without having to run ethernet cable, and it only adds a few ms of latency to the connection. Also, I would not entertain powerline adapters, as they're generally too flaky over time, in my experience.

I'll wait on your reply for further guidance.

 

[neonJZA]

I just want to confirm that you do or don't have coaxial runs available in the house. If you do, are there drops in places close enough to where you'd want to run your one or two APs? If yes to both, then running MoCa 2.0 or 2.5 adapters would be fairly reliable way to create your a wired backbone without having to run ethernet cable, and it only adds a few ms of latency to the connection. Also, I would not entertain powerline adapters, as they're generally too flaky over time, in my experience.

I'll wait on your reply for further guidance.

Hey Trip, unfortunately the idiot builders only put coax in two locations in my house, the same two locations as ethernet. I also don't have phone jacks. This means I currently only have two locations I can hardwire things, my top floor, and my second floor.

Over the weekend I moved my AT&T modem to my smart panel on the third floor, and plugged the wall jacks into the back of that, so now both ethernet locations in my house are receiving an internet connection. Someone I spoke to brought up an interesting thought... Should I return my nighthawk router, and instead of buying another router, just buy two ubiquiti pro access points and put them in the locations I have ethernet ports? This would give my third and second floor wireless coverage (hopefully). I've just read some negative things about the chip Ubiquiti uses in their AC Pro vs their enterprise AP, any idea if it's that big of a deal?

Either way, it seems like my two best options at this point are...

1) Buy a mesh system, put the main unit in my smart panel behind the modem, wire the two wall jacks to the main unit, use ethernet backhaul for one unit and wireless for the other (3 total units, one main and two satellites). This is because my smart panel is on the third floor so having two wifi pucks on one floor makes no sense to me. The second floor would then contain a hardwired mesh puck as well for handling backhaul, and the first floor would handle backhaul wirelessly.

2) Sell my nighthawk, buy two ubiquiti access points. Put one on the third floor where the first ethernet port is, put one on the second floor where the second ethernet port is. This means my third and second floor will be covered with wifi, but my first floor will not be (not that big of a deal since I'm the only one who is ever on the first floor anyway).

 

[Trip]

Understood on the coaxial limits.

Re- the AT&T fiber gateway now on the third floor, how does the fiber drop connect to the gateway now, when the drop was/is in the basement? Did you have AT&T come back and move it to the third floor, or is there something I'm missing here?

Re- wired backbone, just to confirm, you now have two wired ethernet runs to/from the smart box on the third floor: one going elsewhere on the third floor, and one going down to the second floor. Correct?

Re- wifi, all ideas are workable, especially since you now have more wired backhaul, which means wire-first/wire-only approaches, such as @Val D.'s suggestion, would now be a lot more feasible. The centralized SMB and home mesh systems are also still on the table.

Before delving further on the wireless side of things, though, lets confirm what can be done with the wired infrastructure.

 

[Val D.]

(3 total units, one main and two satellites)

What is this townhouse made of? Most homes in North America are made of almost RF transparent materials.

I have recently installed a single RT-AC86U router in a townhouse on the second floor central location and it covers the entire home with pretty decent WiFi speeds. You don't have to see 5-bar signal strength in every single corner of the house. If you do see 5-bar everywhere, then you provide unnecessary good coverage for your neighbors too. None of your phones, tablets, IoT devices, even 4K streaming devices need >50Mbps. Why so complicated? If you get about 100Mbps speeds around the house with the router you already have, just save your money. Most of your clients won't see any difference between 50Mbps and 500Mbps. Browsing Web experience is all the same with ISP speeds 150Mbps and up. Very few Web sites will send you back data with >50Mbps anyway, so your Gigabit speed is usable for large file transfers only. How many devices use large file transfers? Just focus on those devices, there is no need to spend extra money to push >300Mbps to every single device.

 

[neonJZA]

Re- the AT&T fiber gateway now on the third floor, how does the fiber drop connect to the gateway now, when the drop was/is in the basement? Did you have AT&T come back and move it to the third floor, or is there something I'm missing here?

No it was actually never in the basement / first floor. It used to be on the second floor, but this made my other ethernet wall jack useless, as it wasn't being provided juice. The setup used to be...
Smart Panel > ONT in smart panel > Ethernet to second floor wall > AT&T Modem > Router
now it is
Smart Panel > ONT in smart panel > AT&T Modem > Ethernet ports on third and second floor > Router on second floor plugged into wall's ethernet port

Re- wired backbone, just to confirm, you now have two wired ethernet runs to/from the smart box on the third floor: one going elsewhere on the third floor, and one going down to the second floor. Correct?

Yes. One on the third floor to the master bedroom, and the second on the second floor into the living room.

Re- wifi, all ideas are workable, especially since you now have more wired backhaul, which means wire-first/wire-only approaches, such as @Val D.'s suggestion, would now be a lot more feasible. The centralized SMB and home mesh systems are also still on the table.

I suppose at this point I should just decide if I want to get a mesh system and keep one unit on the first floor using wireless backhaul, and have the other be wired... Or return the nighthawk and buy two ubiquiti access points, one for the third floor ethernet port and one for the second floor ethernet port.

I have recently installed a single RT-AC86U router in a townhouse on the second floor central location and it covers the entire home with pretty decent WiFi speeds. You don't have to see 5-bar signal strength in every single corner of the house

I'm wondering if this would work for me, as I haven't tried this router yet. My current issue is yes I get a signal in my bedroom, but something is wonky because on all bands (2.4, 5-1 5-2), I get serious buffering, load times etc when doing simple browsing from my phone.

 

[Val D.]

My current issue is yes I get a signal in my bedroom, but something is wonky because on all bands (2.4, 5-1 5-2), I get serious buffering, load times etc when doing simple browsing from my phone.

Must be the router settings then, because my iPhone still connects on 526Mbps link rate (about 200Mbps throughput, -68dBm RSSI as per Wireless Log) 2 rooms away from the router through one half concrete load bearing wall and one divider drywall wall. Disable all Custom Scripts (if you have any), all TrendMicro components and make sure WiFi settings per band are correct. Test again and see what you get, run a simple Speedtest. Looks like your issues are not signal strength related.

 

[neonJZA]

Must be the router settings then, because my iPhone still connects on 526Mbps link rate (about 200Mbps throughput, -68dBm RSSI as per Wireless Log) 2 rooms away from the router through one half concrete load bearing wall and one divider drywall wall. Disable all Custom Scripts (if you have any), all TrendMicro components and make sure WiFi settings per band are correct. Test again and see what you get, run a simple Speedtest. Looks like your issues are not signal strength related.

I liked the firmware / software of the asus router way more than this nighthawk. I might just order the 86u then. My townhouse is 1900 sq feet, you think it can blanket my place well enough for usable browsing / watching youtube and sometimes streaming?

 

[Val D.]

My townhouse is 1900 sq feet, you think it can blanket my place well enough for usable browsing / watching youtube and sometimes streaming?

I believe so, if the townhouse is typical wood/drywall structure and the router is placed on the second floor somewhere in the middle. This is what I did for a friend of mine just few weeks back. Had to run a cable from the modem location, but that was the single complication. He has a 150Mbps ISP line, no wired clients, everything is wireless, about 10-15 devices total. Every room is basically up to 20ft away from the router in a straight line. The signal strength is good enough even on the small back yard he has. Get one and try, send it back if the results are not as expected, or get another one for AiMesh setup. Those new routers have more sensitive radio modules, you'll be surprised.

Something to read here on SNB:
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/side-by-side-68u-vs-3100.35994/
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/86u-vs-68u-wifi-throughput.42754/
Tests done by a fellow SNB member @doczenith1, thank you very much buddy!

The only potential issue is the reliability record of early RT-AC86U units, but you'll be getting 2019 ones, so fingers crossed.

 

[neonJZA]

I believe so, if the townhouse is typical wood/drywall structure and the router is placed on the second floor somewhere in the middle. This is what I did for a friend of mine just few weeks back. Had to run a cable from the modem location, but that was the single complication. He has a 150Mbps ISP line, no wired clients, everything is wireless, about 10-15 devices total. Every room is basically up to 20ft away from the router in a straight line. The signal strength is good enough even on the small back yard he has. Get one and try, send it back if the results are not as expected, or get another one for AiMesh setup. Those new routers have more sensitive radio modules, you'll be surprised.

Something to read here on SNB:
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/side-by-side-68u-vs-3100.35994/
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/86u-vs-68u-wifi-throughput.42754/
Tests done by a fellow SNB member @doczenith1, thank you very much buddy!

The only potential issue is the reliability record of early RT-AC86U units, but you'll be getting 2019 ones, so fingers crossed.

Thanks man. Just ordered one. Hopefully I can stick with this one unit and be done, that would be ideal.

 

[Val D.]

Hopefully I can stick with this one unit and be done, that would be ideal.

Let us know how does it work in your environment.
For me RT-AC68U was a big step forward compared to RT-AC66U, then RT-AC86U was another big step forward compared to RT-AC68U.

 

[neonJZA]

Let us know how does it work in your environment.
For me RT-AC68U was a big step forward compared to RT-AC66U, then RT-AC86U was another big step forward compared to RT-AC68U.

I’m very hopeful. If this doesn’t work, I guess I’ll try a mesh system. And if that doesn’t work, I’ll try APs. Hopefully this is all I need. If I could get more Ethernet ports installed around the house I’d definitely go for access points.

 

[Val D.]

I see you've got the router already.
How is the WiFi throughput/coverage compared to the routers you had before?

 

[neonJZA]

I see you've got the router already.
How is the WiFi throughput/coverage compared to the routers you had before?

Hey man. It's working pretty well, but for some reason I'm still getting slowdowns in my bedroom. It makes no sense, I checked the signal strength and it's about -55 to -60, so not bad. The speed test also gives me great results. Could it just be an iphone XS thing? I did look up that people were having problems with the iPhone XS specifically because of the antenna or something.

 

[Val D.]

OK, try this:

In Administration - Privacy
- Withdraw (to stop all TrendMicro services, in case something affects the performance)

In Wireless -> General:
- Smart Connect - Disabled, use separate SSIDs for 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands (for best performance)
- 2.4GHz channel - Wireless Mode Auto, 20MHz wide, channel number whatever works best in your place
- 5GHz channel - Wireless Mode Auto, 80MHz wide, lower channels 36-40-44-48, control channel 36
- Protected Management Frames - Disabled

In Wireless - > Professional:
- Roaming Assistant - Disabled (both bands, to prevent clients disconnection)
- TX Bursting - Disabled (both bands, valid for G clients, 2.4GHz only anyway)
- Airtime Fairness - Disabled (both bands, incompatible with some clients)
- Modulation Scheme - MCS7 802.11n for 2.4GHz (standard N specs)
- Modulation Scheme - MCS9 802.11ac for 5Ghz (standard AC specs)
- MU-MIMO - Disabled (both bands, for best compatibility, minimal to no performance gains to keep it Enabled)
- Beamforming - Disabled (both bands, both types, for best compatibility, minimal to no performance gains to keep it Enabled)

 

[neonJZA]

OK, try this:

In Administration - Privacy
- Withdraw (to stop all TrendMicro services, in case something affects the performance)

In Wireless -> General:
- Smart Connect - Disabled, use separate SSIDs for 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands (for best performance)
- 2.4GHz channel - Wireless Mode Auto, 20MHz wide, channel number whatever works best in your place
- 5GHz channel - Wireless Mode Auto, 80MHz wide, lower channels 36-40-44-48, control channel 36
- Protected Management Frames - Disabled

In Wireless - > Professional:
- Roaming Assistant - Disabled (both bands, to prevent clients disconnection)
- TX Bursting - Disabled (both bands, valid for G clients, 2.4GHz only anyway)
- Airtime Fairness - Disabled (both bands, incompatible with some clients)
- Modulation Scheme - MCS7 802.11n for 2.4GHz (standard N specs)
- Modulation Scheme - MCS9 802.11ac for 5Ghz (standard AC specs)
- MU-MIMO - Disabled (both bands, for best compatibility, minimal to no performance gains to keep it Enabled)
- Beamforming - Disabled (both bands, both types, for best compatibility, minimal to no performance gains to keep it Enabled)

Thanks man. I’ll give this a shot when I get home. One question about channels though, I read that 6 and 11 were best for 2.4 and that 147 and above were best for 5. Any idea why it would make much of a difference?