TVS AMD based NAS and thoughts?

[Kylis]

So I was looking at the TS-453 pro turbo and was thinking it would be nice to have a 10gb port for the future and maybe to make better use of the SSD caching feature later on. However the model they included the option on they went AMD and made some minor design changes thus bringing it to the TVS-463. Now I have heard a bit that since they went away from the more ventilated trays that people have been having heat issues. Has anyone experience this or had any problems with the switch from intel to AMD platform?

 

[L&LD]

Two points:
I would not recommend an AMD based platform (too weak, too hot, not enough savings to consider it).
SSD caching (or not) is not something that would make me change my mind about an otherwise solid choice.

Buy an Intel platform based QNAP model with as many bays and as many (included or optional) 10GBe ports as you can afford. The SSD caching ability is not important for most users on a normal 1GBe network and more bay ports is much more important and usable. Optioning one with an AMD platform is a huge downgrade, imo. Intel is faster, cooler and more power efficient even if it costs more.

 

[stevech]

Support AMD. I have, for many years (desktops and mini-ITX). Never one problem.

Without AMD's competition, what would Intel be charging for CPUs?

 

[sfx2000]

Now I have heard a bit that since they went away from the more ventilated trays that people have been having heat issues. Has anyone experience this or had any problems with the switch from intel to AMD platform?

I'm happy that QNAP is at least exploring different approaches... the G-series APU isn't far removed from the APU's found in the XBoxOne and PS4 - they're all part of the same family of AMD small cores...

Going thru the Google, I haven't seen any objective data that suggests that there is an cooling concern with the *63 series - some subjective comments on Amazon perhaps, but one wonders if this is astro-turfing trying to spread some FUD on AMD moving into this realm...

From a performance perspective, it looks like the *53's and *63's are pretty similar - and there's a give/take with external interfaces - give a little, get a little, depends on needs - 10GiGE, the *63 is an entry point, but in most markets that SNB focuses on, it's a fringe right now - but some folks might care...

 

[Kylis]

Two points:
I would not recommend an AMD based platform (too weak, too hot, not enough savings to consider it).
...
Intel is faster, cooler and more power efficient even if it costs more.

Do you have any benchmarks that support this or is this speculation on past experience?

 

[L&LD]

Past experience is not speculation. But benchmarks between AMD and Intel processors are everywhere.

 

[Kylis]

As far as NAS are concerned how are the AMD ones compared to similarly speced or priced intel ones? Though the similarly speced Intel one seemed to be like twice the price.

I know Intel blows AMD out of the water normally on processors but as far as which ones are put into these NAS the comparison might be different. It isn't like we are comparing desktop processors (unless you go high end and get the ones with i7 chips in them).

I should have also put I meant speculation on AMD processors as a whole based on past experience with them from other things like the desktop chips.

 

[stevech]

Past experience is not speculation. But benchmarks between AMD and Intel processors are everywhere.

My 15 years' experience using AMD CPUs has been flawless.

"Blows out of the water", hmmm. That's precise.
I don't buy/can't justify top of the line. So mid to upper is where I buy for my DIY comptuers. Sweet spot. And that's AMD's best spot.

 

[L&LD]

My 15 years' experience using AMD CPUs has been flawless.

"Blows out of the water", hmmm. That's precise.
I don't buy/can't justify top of the line. So mid to upper is where I buy for my DIY comptuers. Sweet spot. And that's AMD's best spot.

I guess we can disagree on what is a 'mid to upper' end platform. And we can have a cpu that works, but that still doesn't work as well as the competition.

The sweet spot for me is when performance, efficiency and heat output is considered equally.

The one time cost for the cpu has never proven to offset the above over a few months or years of ownership.

"Blows out of the water", hmmm.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never stated that.

 

[sfx2000]

Doesn't matter what color the cat is as long as it catches mice...

Intel, AMD, ARM, MIPS - these are appliances, as long as they do the job well...

 

[stevech]

I like to support the underdog like AMD if their stuff is good, which it is - so we can avoid this:
Without competition there is no excellence (nor low prices).
Microsoft is the anti-example in the tech sector. If they'd cut the employee head count to 200, they products would improve.

 

[Kylis]

I guess we can disagree on what is a 'mid to upper' end platform. And we can have a cpu that works, but that still doesn't work as well as the competition.

The sweet spot for me is when performance, efficiency and heat output is considered equally.

The one time cost for the cpu has never proven to offset the above over a few months or years of ownership.



Please don't put words in my mouth. I never stated that.

Well I shouldn't have said "blows out of the water" and I meant it more for the desktop variety. My problem with the kneejerk reaction of OMG AMD avoid, its slow and hot compared to intel is, If they put a higher end AMD in this compared to the lower end Intel in the other NAS systems wouldn't that offset the speed thing. Also if they drop it down a notch or improve the cooling it would take care of that concern as well. Not saying that is what they did but just going by brand without comparing the chips themselves seems rather short sighted.

 

[L&LD]

Not saying that is what they did but just going by brand without comparing the chips themselves seems rather short sighted.

The above is what is happening every time a decision that involves money is made (actual chips are compared, not brands). AMD are no threat to Intel for almost a decade now for the three issues I raised. No matter what level of performance you can choose.

It is made even worse by laptop manufacturers when they seem to always put in the AMD chips in the cheapest chassis'. And are at most $100 to $200 less for much less value, overall.

In NAS land, those issues may be irrelevant, but the heat, efficiency and performance is still not worth a token savings off of already expensive gear.

 

[stevech]

well, with a BOM cost of X that translates to 4X at retail (common), and with NAS vendors like Synology and QNAP who must compete on features AND price, BOMs matter.

 

[claykin]

My 15 years' experience using AMD CPUs has been flawless.

Possibly and probably. However, the core logic chipsets that go along with them aren't so flawless.

 

[claykin]

Anyone look at the new TS-563? AMD x86 based true NAS. Qnap removed the LCD, the HDMI port, real time encoding and the QVPC feature. Oh, they also used non locking drive trays which isn't a huge deal since the locking trays only kept out honest people anyway.

It seems fast, close to TVS-463, has AES in hardware, a 5th drive bay and the PCIe expansion for 10GigE card, so for users who use in an office environment, this could be a great solution. Its about $100 less than the TS-453Pro and $200 less than the TVS-463.

It is missing the LCD thought which is disappointing. I typically spec a model with the LCD for office use.

I'd like to see a model just like the TS-563 with the LCD. No need for QVPC, media center stuff, etc. for office use....

 

[sfx2000]

TS-563

Seems to be a very specific SKU...

 

[claykin]

https://www.qnap.com/i/useng/product/model.php?II=194

 

[sfx2000]

Possibly and probably. However, the core logic chipsets that go along with them aren't so flawless.

Been there, felt the pain of SiS/VIA/nVidia support chipset oddities on AMD, from the original K6-2's thru Athlon64x2's... once sorted, they worked pretty well, but never as easy as Intel on Intel - not saying that Intel is perfect, they have their issues from time to time..

Things have gotten better on the AMD front - the G-Series chipset on the *63 series is a SoC, so most of the cross-vendor troublesome parts in the past aren't really an issue here... Should also note that the G-series chip is a close cousin of the Xbone/PS4 CPU/logic, which says much...

On the QNAP, the rest of the logics are pretty solid stuff that they have a good handle on...

Gutsy move by QNAP perhaps to invest product development money on AMD, but if it works, it's all good...

 

[CiASpook]

I have the TVS-863+ and I am very happy with it. I have had QNAP for years and have had Atom, ARM and Intel Xeon based ones. No difference.

Had no heat issues with the hdd trays...