Universal Setting Restoration?

[GHammer]

I am curious if anyone has tried this with the stock firmware. Supposed to work, but I have never tried it as I always use RMerlin's builds.

This from a review of the AX88U

During the setup process, you’ll be offered to upload settings from a backup file.
In this case, you can upload settings of almost any other Asus routers.
Like most Asus routers released in the past five years or so, the RT-AX88U support universal setting restoration.

In my trial, I uploaded the settings of an RT-AC86U and then an RT-AC88U to the RT-AX88U, and it worked each time flawlessly.

 

[L&LD]

Do you have a link for that?

I know for certain it doesn't work for people that I have helped that did that.

 

[GHammer]

I know for certain it doesn't work for people that I have helped that did that.

Meaning stock firmware on one device restore settings on another device with stock settings?

 

[L&LD]

Meaning stock firmware on one device restore settings on another device with stock settings?

Yes. Over the last few years, I have seen almost every combination.

Doing a full reset at the time and then minimally and manually configuring the router proved to them that there were no issues with the hardware; it was user error setting it up.

 

[GHammer]

Well then, a tie ballgame.
One says yes, one says no.

Not a problem for me, I have only the 86U.

 

[Rumboogy]

Yes. Over the last few years, I have seen almost every combination.

Doing a full reset at the time and then minimally and manually configuring the router proved to them that there were no issues with the hardware; it was user error setting it up.

L&LD,

A question for you about saving and restoring. On the AC86U with Merlin, if you save the JFFS and the config and later want to restore to the previous point what is the procedure? Do you restore the JFFS first then the config, or the other way around, or just the config file and not the JFFS backup? Also is it good practice to factory reset before restoring or does it not matter?

 

[L&LD]

L&LD,

A question for you about saving and restoring. On the AC86U with Merlin, if you save the JFFS and the config and later want to restore to the previous point what is the procedure? Do you restore the JFFS first then the config, or the other way around, or just the config file and not the JFFS backup? Also is it good practice to factory reset before restoring or does it not matter?

Generally, in almost every situation, you first want to flash the firmware you want on the router. Then, if the router continues to work as you need, leave it as is. If it does start showing glitches and random bugs that no searching can help you squash, then you need to do a full reset to factory defaults followed afterward by a minimal and manual configuration to secure the router and connect to your ISP.

If you have flashed a firmware that you don't want and want to use the previous version, flash the previous version first and then do a full reset to factory defaults, as above. If you had saved the backup config file for the router and the jffs partition files too, for that specific firmware version you have installed now, you could restore those at this point. The order shouldn't matter. Just make sure you do a GUI initiated reboot of the router and to wait at least 10 minutes before checking if the router is running as expected.

Myself, I do not use saved files, because I would never go back to old firmware, even though I make them for my customers' routers, just in case. It is far easier and less work to get to a working, stable state to just manually configure the router as needed. Almost every time.

 

[Rumboogy]

Generally, in almost every situation, you first want to flash the firmware you want on the router. Then, if the router continues to work as you need, leave it as is. If it does start showing glitches and random bugs that no searching can help you squash, then you need to do a full reset to factory defaults followed afterward by a minimal and manual configuration to secure the router and connect to your ISP.

If you have flashed a firmware that you don't want and want to use the previous version, flash the previous version first and then do a full reset to factory defaults, as above. If you had saved the backup config file for the router and the jffs partition files too, for that specific firmware version you have installed now, you could restore those at this point. The order shouldn't matter. Just make sure you do a GUI initiated reboot of the router and to wait at least 10 minutes before checking if the router is running as expected.

Myself, I do not use saved files, because I would never go back to old firmware, even though I make them for my customers' routers, just in case. It is far easier and less work to get to a working, stable state to just manually configure the router as needed. Almost every time.

Thanks for the detailed response. Let me ask a follow up question. In my case I had just recently done a firmware install, then a factory reset and finally a fresh configuration. In doing my recent testing of the guest networks I seemed to have messed the unit up (every time I make a settings change now both the radios turn off). I tried to fix it by reloading the JFFS first, then the config file and rebooting. But this did not fix the issue. Do you think that just reloading the firmware would be do the trick? Or should I reload firmware, factory reset, and load config files?

Also, when reloading the JFFS and config, do you recommend rebooting between loading the first and 2nd files or just after the 2nd file?

 

[vibroverbus]

I would never try restoring a config file to a different firmware version, ever. Even if ASUS or whoever claims its OK.

If I was going to do that, I'd probably try an NVRAM scripting backup/restore utility. There's threads here on one that used to be great but it hasn't been maintained therefore is no longer recommended. Basically it uses nvram commands to save and restore text files and had a 'migrate' function that was for taking you from one version to another but that was based on somebody doing some detailed work on which parms were safe to restore and which were not and which things changed between which versions etc.

There's a school around here and in the general open (lowercase) wrt world, of "you must ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS reconfig from scratch every single time, always stone-cold-clear NVRAM and start over". There's all these little acronyms for - "M&M" or "30/30/30" or "peacock" whatever.

Before I say the next thing that makes the religious extremists heads explode, I completely recognize the value there absolutely.
There's huge truth in that and reasons why that is the recommended way to go.

However, I've upgraded x_wrt routers probably 100 times without resetting to factory defaults again with no problems.
Have probably had less than a dozen times something got borked after an upgrade.

I've probably saved weeks of man-time not full-factory-resetting every time I upgrade. I think its foolish to tell everyone to always always stone-cold reconfig, unless your config is super simple vanilla and really close to the factory setup. My main site routers are not and have loads of stuff to have to re-do - manual IP's, multiple networks, custom scripting, SSL keys, etc. etc. etc. Reset? Ugggh.

My routine is basically what L&LD says - try it first and then reconfig if you need to - but with the following options

• Backup old config, flash new firmware, do not reset
• If problems occur, make a judgement call on one of the following options
  1. Investigate/diag in-situ without reset to see if problem is an easy "sysadmin-able" fix, or,
  2. Restore prior firmware, reset to factory, then restore the backup, and leave the upgrade for another time, or,
  3. Stone cold reset and reconfig routine

The factors that go into choosing a path there are:

• Nature/severity of issue
• Time available to diag/futz around
• Site-related urgency (will users set the house on fire if service is out for 5 minutes)
• Urgency of the upgrade (is there security related patch or is this 'general currency' upgrade)
• Complexity of the router/site in question

While the reset-jihadiis talk incessantly about NVRAM corruption and the like, my strong experience with x_wrt is that a firmware upgrade hiccup these days is as likely to be some other file-format or config-file related change that was made as anything else, therefore maybe its just some minor tweak you need to make to a /jffs script or a permission or whatever, and very likely a stone-cold reset and reconfig is a complete and massive waste of time.

To be fair, I think this maybe was different years ago when the factory firmwares were far less reliable and more likely that some NVRAM parm changed but wasn't migrated properly or whatever (or on the older routers with tiny memory that the NVRAM space would over-run).

So - to answer your last post - I would:

1. Reload prior firmware (that matches your config backup) and select reset factory defaults
2. Perhaps do a 2nd 'reset defaults' for good measure when it comes back up
3. Restore your jffs
4. Restore the config backup file

 

[L&LD]

Thanks for the detailed response. Let me ask a follow up question. In my case I had just recently done a firmware install, then a factory reset and finally a fresh configuration. In doing my recent testing of the guest networks I seemed to have messed the unit up (every time I make a settings change now both the radios turn off). I tried to fix it by reloading the JFFS first, then the config file and rebooting. But this did not fix the issue. Do you think that just reloading the firmware would be do the trick? Or should I reload firmware, factory reset, and load config files?

Also, when reloading the JFFS and config, do you recommend rebooting between loading the first and 2nd files or just after the 2nd file?

You're welcome.

While 'just reloading the firmware' again may potentially solve an issue, I don't know if it will for you.

If you're making simple settings changes and the radios turn off? Your router is not in a good/known state.

I would recommend you start at the beginning with a full M&M Config, perform a WPS NVRAM Erase, format the JFFS partition on next boot and then proceed slowly and methodically in the options and features you start using/testing going forward. I recommend keeping good notes for each major change you do for each router you have.

When reloading a backup config file and the JFFS partition, I would do it together, with the JFFS partition restored last. Wait for 10 to 15 minutes for the router to settle (may not need it, but I still wait after making a single setting change, much less a whole router configuration change) and then a GUI initiated re-boot.

 

[L&LD]

I would never try restoring a config file to a different firmware version, ever. Even if ASUS or whoever claims its OK.

If I was going to do that, I'd probably try an NVRAM scripting backup/restore utility. There's threads here on one that used to be great but it hasn't been maintained therefore is no longer recommended. Basically it uses nvram commands to save and restore text files and had a 'migrate' function that was for taking you from one version to another but that was based on somebody doing some detailed work on which parms were safe to restore and which were not and which things changed between which versions etc.

There's a school around here and in the general open (lowercase) wrt world, of "you must ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS reconfig from scratch every single time, always stone-cold-clear NVRAM and start over". There's all these little acronyms for - "M&M" or "30/30/30" or "peacock" whatever.

Before I say the next thing that makes the religious extremists heads explode, I completely recognize the value there absolutely.
There's huge truth in that and reasons why that is the recommended way to go.

However, I've upgraded x_wrt routers probably 100 times without resetting to factory defaults again with no problems.
Have probably had less than a dozen times something got borked after an upgrade.

I've probably saved weeks of man-time not full-factory-resetting every time I upgrade. I think its foolish to tell everyone to always always stone-cold reconfig, unless your config is super simple vanilla and really close to the factory setup. My main site routers are not and have loads of stuff to have to re-do - manual IP's, multiple networks, custom scripting, SSL keys, etc. etc. etc. Reset? Ugggh.

My routine is basically what L&LD says - try it first and then reconfig if you need to - but with the following options

• Backup old config, flash new firmware, do not reset
• If problems occur, make a judgement call on one of the following options
  1. Investigate/diag in-situ without reset to see if problem is an easy "sysadmin-able" fix, or,
  2. Restore prior firmware, reset to factory, then restore the backup, and leave the upgrade for another time, or,
  3. Stone cold reset and reconfig routine

The factors that go into choosing a path there are:

• Nature/severity of issue
• Time available to diag/futz around
• Site-related urgency (will users set the house on fire if service is out for 5 minutes)
• Urgency of the upgrade (is there security related patch or is this 'general currency' upgrade)
• Complexity of the router/site in question

While the reset-jihadiis talk incessantly about NVRAM corruption and the like, my strong experience with x_wrt is that a firmware upgrade hiccup these days is as likely to be some other file-format or config-file related change that was made as anything else, therefore maybe its just some minor tweak you need to make to a /jffs script or a permission or whatever, and very likely a stone-cold reset and reconfig is a complete and massive waste of time.

To be fair, I think this maybe was different years ago when the factory firmwares were far less reliable and more likely that some NVRAM parm changed but wasn't migrated properly or whatever (or on the older routers with tiny memory that the NVRAM space would over-run).

So - to answer your last post - I would:

1. Reload prior firmware (that matches your config backup) and select reset factory defaults
2. Perhaps do a 2nd 'reset defaults' for good measure when it comes back up
3. Restore your jffs
4. Restore the config backup file

I can agree with the spirit of your post, but I have never seen a proper reset to factory defaults (specifically, an M&M Config) as being a 'complete and massive waste of time'. Ever.

If it is, then you're doing it wrong.

I can go to a customer, see that the network is not in a good/known state and spend half the day there trying to find the issue, or, simply reconfigure everything back to a good/known state in less than half an hour (and usually less) and be out the door. This is not a waste of time, nor do I consider initiating an M&M Config lightly.

On my own routers, I may take the time to dig and find the underlying issue, if I can. That closely matches what most are doing here on these forums. But I have spent more time on wild goose chases than it takes to simply get the router stable again in as little as 10 minutes. Even if some of those goose chases were fun.

The best time to do a full reset as in my guide is when a router is brand new. When it is being deployed in remote locations. When it is for a customer. Or whenever it becomes unstable after many firmware upgrades (or downgrades) since the last one was done.

The best reason to do a full reset is to get to the latest firmware's true defaults. The biggest security, performance and stability issues I have seen have been from using old ideas/settings in much more modern firmware.

Inter-firmware interactions of variables and other hard-coded firmware assumptions/decisions and how they are currently used or differently defined are sometimes not fixable by merely changing settings or setting switches. The firmware developers themselves don't know all the possible combinations of those possible interactions.

Believing that a router is still working optimally after many firmware updates is your choice, of course.

But I see evidence to the contrary, every day.

 

[Rumboogy]

I would never try restoring a config file to a different firmware version, ever. Even if ASUS or whoever claims its OK.

If I was going to do that, I'd probably try an NVRAM scripting backup/restore utility. There's threads here on one that used to be great but it hasn't been maintained therefore is no longer recommended. Basically it uses nvram commands to save and restore text files and had a 'migrate' function that was for taking you from one version to another but that was based on somebody doing some detailed work on which parms were safe to restore and which were not and which things changed between which versions etc.

There's a school around here and in the general open (lowercase) wrt world, of "you must ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS reconfig from scratch every single time, always stone-cold-clear NVRAM and start over". There's all these little acronyms for - "M&M" or "30/30/30" or "peacock" whatever.

Before I say the next thing that makes the religious extremists heads explode, I completely recognize the value there absolutely.
There's huge truth in that and reasons why that is the recommended way to go.

However, I've upgraded x_wrt routers probably 100 times without resetting to factory defaults again with no problems.
Have probably had less than a dozen times something got borked after an upgrade.

I've probably saved weeks of man-time not full-factory-resetting every time I upgrade. I think its foolish to tell everyone to always always stone-cold reconfig, unless your config is super simple vanilla and really close to the factory setup. My main site routers are not and have loads of stuff to have to re-do - manual IP's, multiple networks, custom scripting, SSL keys, etc. etc. etc. Reset? Ugggh.

My routine is basically what L&LD says - try it first and then reconfig if you need to - but with the following options

• Backup old config, flash new firmware, do not reset
• If problems occur, make a judgement call on one of the following options
  1. Investigate/diag in-situ without reset to see if problem is an easy "sysadmin-able" fix, or,
  2. Restore prior firmware, reset to factory, then restore the backup, and leave the upgrade for another time, or,
  3. Stone cold reset and reconfig routine

The factors that go into choosing a path there are:

• Nature/severity of issue
• Time available to diag/futz around
• Site-related urgency (will users set the house on fire if service is out for 5 minutes)
• Urgency of the upgrade (is there security related patch or is this 'general currency' upgrade)
• Complexity of the router/site in question

While the reset-jihadiis talk incessantly about NVRAM corruption and the like, my strong experience with x_wrt is that a firmware upgrade hiccup these days is as likely to be some other file-format or config-file related change that was made as anything else, therefore maybe its just some minor tweak you need to make to a /jffs script or a permission or whatever, and very likely a stone-cold reset and reconfig is a complete and massive waste of time.

To be fair, I think this maybe was different years ago when the factory firmwares were far less reliable and more likely that some NVRAM parm changed but wasn't migrated properly or whatever (or on the older routers with tiny memory that the NVRAM space would over-run).

So - to answer your last post - I would:

1. Reload prior firmware (that matches your config backup) and select reset factory defaults
2. Perhaps do a 2nd 'reset defaults' for good measure when it comes back up
3. Restore your jffs
4. Restore the config backup file

Lots of detail here. Thanks.

When you say "reset" what is the procedure? Do you clear JFFS first then "Factory Default" it? Or can you skip the clearing of JFFS and just do the Factory Default?

 

[vibroverbus]

I can agree with the spirit of your post, but I have never seen a proper reset to factory defaults (specifically, an M&M Config) as being a 'complete and massive waste of time'. Ever.

I know man, that's why I made the jokes about people getting upset... I totally hear where you're coming from and if I was supporting a bunch of 3rd party sites I'd probably have my routine (and a documented checklist) for "base clean setup" down pat. I recognize you are not one of the reset-nazis that claims EACH AND EVERY UPGRADE MUST BE DONE FROM VIRGIN STATE. I'm more arguing against that (straw-man ).

Note that I'm not saying that its ALWAYS a waste... I'm just saying, for me, had I been doing total-resets every single time, yes it would have most often been a total waste of time (aka because of the vast number of times my systems have continued to run perfectly afterwards without it). In my own defense I did say: "I completely recognize the value there absolutely. There's huge truth in that and reasons why that is the recommended way to go. "

For sure I can remember at least a handful of situation where doing the "hand fix" was what was probably a 'complete and massive waste of time' vs a document->clean-boot->reconfig. I'm just saying in my experience of almost 20yrs of running this stuff, the "no reset" savings vastly have outweighed the "repair-quicksand" incidents.

Making up numbers off top of my head, its probably like:

1. 100+ no problem no reset upgrades (aka 1hr plus saved each time)
2. 10-12 minor tweak issues required (<1hr)
3. 3-5 bigger problem/issues (took >1hr)
4. doesn't really count but also: 3-4 massive disasters with serial TFTP recovery required (mostly down to specific old gear and DD-WRT versions that were supposed to be compatible but were not and overflowed the memory size, this would have / did happened regardless of factory reset as I found out...)

For sure as you say - I'm normally fine to embrace the fixes in the scenario 2 or 3 as learning opportunities (if not then I generally rollback and come back to it later) If it was for customers, not "in-house", then probably in any 2/3 scenario the minute I couldn't fix it quickly I'd fall back to stone-cold reconfig.

The other point about over time NVRAM getting potentially poopy (and possibly defects evolving in persistent files aka /opt or /jffs ) is valid too, some time ago I did in fact stone-rebuild my main Merlin box and a host of slowness weird issues went away, so... I'm not arguing that either.

 

[vibroverbus]

Do you clear JFFS first then "Factory Default" it? Or can you skip the clearing of JFFS and just do the Factory Default?

I'd say depends on what problems you're seeing / severity. The important stuff on /jffs for asuswrt is /configs, /scripts, and then a series of hidden (.xxx) directories generally for preserving history and/or settings. Mostly I wouldn't worry about it but if you really have issues then yes you probably do want to backup the non-hidden stuff, the clean and reset /jffs, and then re-implement your stuff (config & scripts) one thing at a time.

 

[L&LD]

I know man, that's why I made the jokes about people getting upset... I totally hear where you're coming from and if I was supporting a bunch of 3rd party sites I'd probably have my routine (and a documented checklist) for "base clean setup" down pat. I recognize you are not one of the reset-nazis that claims EACH AND EVERY UPGRADE MUST BE DONE FROM VIRGIN STATE. I'm more arguing against that (straw-man ).

Note that I'm not saying that its ALWAYS a waste... I'm just saying, for me, had I been doing total-resets every single time, yes it would have most often been a total waste of time (aka because of the vast number of times my systems have continued to run perfectly afterwards without it). In my own defense I did say: "I completely recognize the value there absolutely. There's huge truth in that and reasons why that is the recommended way to go. "

For sure I can remember at least a handful of situation where doing the "hand fix" was what was probably a 'complete and massive waste of time' vs a document->clean-boot->reconfig. I'm just saying in my experience of almost 20yrs of running this stuff, the "no reset" savings vastly have outweighed the "repair-quicksand" incidents.

Making up numbers off top of my head, its probably like:

1. 100+ no problem no reset upgrades (aka 1hr plus saved each time)
2. 10-12 minor tweak issues required (<1hr)
3. 3-5 bigger problem/issues (took >1hr)
4. doesn't really count but also: 3-4 massive disasters with serial TFTP recovery required (mostly down to specific old gear and DD-WRT versions that were supposed to be compatible but were not and overflowed the memory size, this would have / did happened regardless of factory reset as I found out...)

For sure as you say - I'm normally fine to embrace the fixes in the scenario 2 or 3 as learning opportunities (if not then I generally rollback and come back to it later) If it was for customers, not "in-house", then probably in any 2/3 scenario the minute I couldn't fix it quickly I'd fall back to stone-cold reconfig.

The other point about over time NVRAM getting potentially poopy (and possibly defects evolving in persistent files aka /opt or /jffs ) is valid too, some time ago I did in fact stone-rebuild my main Merlin box and a host of slowness weird issues went away, so... I'm not arguing that either.

Thank you. We are on the same page then.

 

[Rumboogy]

You're welcome.

While 'just reloading the firmware' again may potentially solve an issue, I don't know if it will for you.

If you're making simple settings changes and the radios turn off? Your router is not in a good/known state.

I would recommend you start at the beginning with a full M&M Config, perform a WPS NVRAM Erase, format the JFFS partition on next boot and then proceed slowly and methodically in the options and features you start using/testing going forward. I recommend keeping good notes for each major change you do for each router you have.

When reloading a backup config file and the JFFS partition, I would do it together, with the JFFS partition restored last. Wait for 10 to 15 minutes for the router to settle (may not need it, but I still wait after making a single setting change, much less a whole router configuration change) and then a GUI initiated re-boot.

What do you mean by "WPS NVRAM Erase"? Is this just the web GUI Factory default "Restore" button with the "Initialize all settings ..." box check or something more?

 

[L&LD]

What do you mean by "WPS NVRAM Erase"? Is this just the web GUI Factory default "Restore" button with the "Initialize all settings ..." box check or something more?

It's in the link in my signature, but here it is for you.

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/b...eta-is-now-available.55520/page-9#post-473141