Upgrade suggestions from an RT-AC86U running merlin

[routerbattles]

Hi all,

I'm have always had very slow internet speeds - 14mb down and 2mb up roughly and have recently moved over to 500mb up and down - happy days.

Previous equipment - RT-AC86U running merlin with three TP-Link TL-PA7017P powerline adaptors (AV2 standard). This used to be sufficient to deliver my crap internet speeds throughout the house.
I have now got the 500mb installed and have two linksys mx5500s connected to the homeplug devices outputs- I now get 500mb directly from wifi at the router connected to the fibre modem and from the wifi or ethernet via the homplugs and linkysys mx5500s around 80mb up and down. I would prefer this obviously to be closer to the 500mb....

Would i be better adding in some mesh devices such as the Asus ZenWiFi XD4 Plus AX1800 or some XD6's or maybe better powerline adaptors or start fresh with ubiquiti? I can do ethernet so far into my house for some backhaul but not in one room which is why i have the powerline adaptors. I do like having the features of merlin but would be happy to sacrifice for some speed.

Thanks

 

[degrub]

Do you have unused coax to the room of concern and elsewhere ?

 

[Tech9]

or start fresh with ubiquiti?

You need Ethernet cables to eventual AP locations for best performance. UniFi works as wireless mesh, but most APs are dual-band and there is no dedicated uplink radio option. This means you'll have retransmissions and 1/2 throughput at every wireless hop. I have tested wireless mesh between two U6 Mesh APs. With good signal levels (-65dB or better) and on low power (20-22dBm*) they maintain steady 4-stream 2400Mbps link rate at 80MHz wide channel and I could get about 400-480Mbps from the wirelessly adopted AP to AX-class 2-stream client. Seems low compared to the link rate, but don't forget they are using the same available bandwidth on the same channel. In fact the 400-480Mbps throughput to the client takes 2x wireless bandwidth and it's possible only in somewhat quiet Wi-Fi environment. So set some realistic expectations if you decide to go with wireless mesh UniFi.

* - If you go higher on Tx power the roaming will suffer. If you set Fast Roaming devices with no 802.11r support may have issues.

Would i be better adding in some mesh devices such as the Asus ZenWiFi XD4 Plus AX1800 or some XD6's

Don't add more AiMesh devices on top of EoL main router. I can't recommend any of the ZenWiFi series devices, but in case you want to test your luck better remove the old RT-AC86U router and use the router the mesh system comes with. The system has to be tri-band for wireless AiMesh.

 

[routerbattles]

Do you have unused coax to the room of concern and elsewhere ?

No unfortunately as I could have explored the moca (is it?) route of data over coax - thanks though.

 

[Tech9]

via the homplugs and linkysys mx5500s around 80mb up and down

Linksys MX5500 is a dual-band AX-class mesh system with 4-stream 5GHz radio. If you bring the router and the satellite closer for better link rates between them in may actually do better wirelessly. The speed limitation you are experiencing is most likely coming from the PLA adapters used.

 

[routerbattles]

You need Ethernet cables to eventual AP locations for best performance. UniFi works as wireless mesh, but most APs are dual-band and there is no dedicated uplink radio option. This means you'll have retransmissions and 1/2 throughput at every wireless hop. I have tested wireless mesh between two U6 Mesh APs. With good signal levels (-65dB or better) and on low power (20-22dBm*) they maintain steady 4-stream 2400Mbps link rate at 80MHz wide channel and I could get about 400-480Mbps from the wirelessly adopted AP to AX-class 2-stream client. Seems low compared to the link rate, but don't forget they are using the same available bandwidth on the same channel. In fact the 400-480Mbps throughput to the client takes 2x wireless bandwidth and it's possible only in somewhat quiet Wi-Fi environment. So set some realistic expectations if you decide to go with wireless mesh UniFi.

* - If you go higher on Tx power the roaming will suffer. If you set Fast Roaming devices with no 802.11r support may have issues.



Don't add more AiMesh devices on top of EoL main router. I can't recommend any of the ZenWiFi series devices, but in case you want to test your luck better remove the old RT-AC86U router and use the router the mesh system comes with. The system has to be tri-band for wireless AiMesh.

Thanks Tech9 for the input - very helpful but a few more direct questions -
1. would it not maybe be cheaper / useful to buy a newer Asus model and demote the old Asus RT-AC86U to mesh - bridge or AP?
2. Would it be better to upgrade the powerline adaptors or is it likely the the bad wiring / capability of powerline adaptors that is the bottleneck and not the standard of the adaptor?
3. Tri-band seems expensive in mesh systems - couldn't the backhaul be on the powerline only somehow or is that insufficient bandwidth as is?
4. Does 80mb ish seem low for a powerline adaptor dropping down from 500mb? - I'm wondering if i have other issues?

Thanks again.

 

[Tech9]

Would it not maybe be cheaper / useful to buy a newer Asus model and demote the old Asus RT-AC86U to mesh - bridge or AP?

Yes, cheaper and many people do it this way. The dual-band wireless mesh limitations still in play though and firmware compatibility is still in question. Your RT-AC86U will perhaps never get another firmware update and you are in "as is" situation, good or bad.

Would it be better to upgrade the powerline adaptors or is it likely the the bad wiring

I cant answer this question. I know nothing about the wiring you have and the PLAs you are using. You can get faster specs PLAs from Amazon, try the performance and if the same issue is present - send them back for a refund or replace them with something else.

couldn't the backhaul be on the powerline only somehow

Yes, Ethernet backhaul is supported in AiMesh, PLAs are only transparent bridges in this case. If the bottleneck is in the PLAs though the final result will be exactly the same as what you see now - the speed will be limited to the throughput of the slower link anyway.

Does 80mb ish seem low for a powerline adaptor dropping down from 500mb?

I personally never had PLAs and don't know what realistically they can do. Based on feedback online the level of success is mixed, but seems like getting close to Gigabit speeds is highly unlikely even with the best PLAs available on the market. Try wirelessly, may be better.

 

[degrub]

AiMesh seems to have the least issues if all of the mesh devices are the same model and firmware. Doesn't mean it cannot work.
1) AP mode would be the least issues.
2)wiring and the breaker usually dominate the issues. IF you know what you are doing so as to not get electrocuted, sometimes, tightening the connections reduces issues for a while. Don't touch the wiring unless you really know what you are doing or have an electrician friend. When was the structure built ?
3) Dedicated backhaul radio is a step up in bandwidth. You've already answered the powerline question.
4) the 500mb/s rate has nothing to do with what the powerline modems can do. You could try using AV2000 modems to see if you can squeeze out a better connection. Also, the more powerline adapters you have, the worse it is in my experience. Just a single pair seems to work best. If you try AV2000 modems, make sure you can return them no fee as "open box" return.

 

[Tech9]

1) AP mode would be the least issues.

^ This ^

PLAs, MoCa, Ethernet... AP Mode works best with more user control options available.

 

[routerbattles]

AiMesh seems to have the least issues if all of the mesh devices are the same model and firmware. Doesn't mean it cannot work.
1) AP mode would be the least issues.
2)wiring and the breaker usually dominate the issues. IF you know what you are doing so as to not get electrocuted, sometimes, tightening the connections reduces issues for a while. Don't touch the wiring unless you really know what you are doing or have an electrician friend. When was the structure built ?
3) Dedicated backhaul radio is a step up in bandwidth. You've already answered the powerline question.
4) the 500mb/s rate has nothing to do with what the powerline modems can do. You could try using AV2000 modems to see if you can squeeze out a better connection. Also, the more powerline adapters you have, the worse it is in my experience. Just a single pair seems to work best. If you try AV2000 modems, make sure you can return them no fee as "open box" return.

1. Thanks - i have the linksys mx5500s as AP off the asus RT-ac86u - they seem to hand over nicely from each other but not to the asus which has the same ssid but doesn't say "by linksys"
2. Yes I's proficiant at house wiring and would be able to have a mess around wherever - are we talking at the cb's or at the sockets though - I'm uk. It's a seventies build and the wiring isn't terrible but i'm bridging over a few circuits i suspect. On this front also I didn't realise by adding more than one PLA i am possibly making speeds worse and having just two can be better.... I need 3 min but have 4. I'll drop the 4th (kitchen tv maybe) and give that a go initially.
3. - Yeah dedicated tri-band looks expensive...
4. Good suggestion i may try step up to AV200 and see if i fare better. I've ordered a 5m cat8 ethernet flat cable to go from the ethernet port in the sitting room that comes from the router in the study to go directly to the shield under the tv. From there i will then run the PLA's to the playroom.
Current overview attached - the MX5500's linksys are connected to the PLA's as AP.

 

[Tech9]

which has the same ssid but doesn't say "by linksys"

Is there a problem removing this “by linksys” from the Linksys SSID?

 

[degrub]

#4 - AV2000 deals a little better with crossing over breakers and can use neutral/earth wires instead of power/load for communication. Do you know if you have arc fault breakers ?
Those will kill powerline.

#2 - powerline, moca, wireless are all half duplex with methods to deal with contention. Just the medium changes. Yes, all the wire connections in the communications circuit. You really want to kill the power to the circuit, including the CBs to do this work safely.
Is the wiring aluminum or copper or Al/Cu ?
Adding more nodes reduces the average bandwidth available to each. What you posted were the link rates, correct ?

An AX or possibly an AC access point ( or main router) in the sitting room might do better within the high efficiency walls of the main structure and penetrate the interior walls. Do you know the construction of the thicker walls ? Is there any foil used as radiation block on the exterior wall ? Are the interior walls gypsum board over wooden studs or are they plaster and lathe ?

Maybe placing the AC router in the sitting room with a wired ethernet connection back into the study would suffice ?
Or are there overriding objections ?

Or to solve the Kitchen / TV coverage, perhaps running an external, trenched in, direct burial ethernet or fiber cable from the fiber entry point to the garage interior wall closest to the TV, penetrate the wall and add an AP on that wall somewhere to cover that large area ?