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Very slow throughput/rate on Wirelness N

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Zythyr

Occasional Visitor
I have a laptop with wireless N, and I am only able to achieve speed of ~ 5MB/s up/down.

I have my desktop (w/ gigabit Ethernet) connected to the router directly. My laptop is connected to the router through wireless. I used NetStress to benchmark, and I was only able to get around ~5 MB/s up/down on wireless N.

Router: DLink DIR-636L (Gigabit, Wireless N, 300Mbps)

In order to ensure optimal scenario I ensured to set the wireless settings in the router to:

Mode: 802.11N
Transmission Rate : Best (Auto)
Channel Width: Auto (20/40 MHz)
Channel: 1
Security: WPA2

My laptop was the only client connected to the router using wireless.

Under my router's control panel, the Wireless Status said: 100% signal strength with 65M rate.

Why am I getting only 65M? I know 300Mbps is theoretical max, but shouldn't I be getting more than 65Mbps?
 
Set your channel width to 20mhz (not Auto or 40). Try changing your channel to 11, and if not good there, try 6.
 
Set your channel width to 20mhz (not Auto or 40). Try changing your channel to 11, and if not good there, try 6.

I already tried all those settings... It didn't make a difference or it resulted in lower throughput.
 
What is your laptops Wifi card capable of? If it is only a 1:1 card, it might also only be 20MHz capable, especially if it is an early 11n card.

On the router, change it and set 40MHz as the channel width instead of auto or 20MHz. In all likelihood it is detecting cochannel interference and dropping to 20MHz. Of course that could possibly result in slower speeds if there is true and significant interference (which is why proper auto behavior is to drop to 20MHz if other networks are detected above a certain signal strength threshold).

65Mbps is indicative of your laptop being only a 150Mbps 11n and the router set to 20MHz and/or the card in your laptop is set to 20MHz only.

5MB/sec is roughly about what you should expect on 20MHz and a single radio.
 
What is your laptops Wifi card capable of? If it is only a 1:1 card, it might also only be 20MHz capable, especially if it is an early 11n card.

On the router, change it and set 40MHz as the channel width instead of auto or 20MHz. In all likelihood it is detecting cochannel interference and dropping to 20MHz. Of course that could possibly result in slower speeds if there is true and significant interference (which is why proper auto behavior is to drop to 20MHz if other networks are detected above a certain signal strength threshold).

65Mbps is indicative of your laptop being only a 150Mbps 11n and the router set to 20MHz and/or the card in your laptop is set to 20MHz only.

5MB/sec is roughly about what you should expect on 20MHz and a single radio.

In my laptop, the Broadcom wirelness driver has options that I can change such as "20/40 Mhz Coexistance" or "40 Mhz intolerant", etc... Would changing any of these make a difference? Right now "Coexistance" is set to Auto and the Intolerane is set to "disable".

My router won't let me select 40 Mhz... It only lets me do 20 Mhz or Auto (20/40).

I tracked down the wireless card's part model on Lenovo's site. It says the following: WLAN, WiFi 1x1 BGN+BT4.0 Cbt BCM943142HM 1x1BGN+BT4.0 HMC

I couldn't' find detailed specs on BCM943142HM. Is this 40 Mhz capable?
 
Client settings are fine. You laptop is 150Mbps max and it sounds like with your router it is seeing other 2.4GHz networks and dropping to 20MHz.

So, what you are getting is as good as you can get without

A) A way to force your router to 40MHz mode (newer/alternative firmware maybe?)
B) A better adapter in your laptop (it is capable of 40MHz and 150Mbps link rates, but your router is defaulting to 20MHz mode when set to auto).

Your only other option is download InSSIDer on to the laptop and see what wireless networks are around you. If you have a bunch spread across the channels, you have no hope (other than the above new router/client/alternate firmware). If there isn't much, instead of using auto channel setting, manually set the channel to the furthest away from any of the existing/strongest networks and see if that'll get it properly running in 40MHz mode.
 
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Client settings are fine. You laptop is 150Mbps max and it sounds like with your router it is seeing other 2.4GHz networks and dropping to 20MHz.

So, what you are getting is as good as you can get without

A) A way to force your router to 40MHz mode (newer/alternative firmware maybe?)
B) A better adapter in your laptop (it is capable of 40MHz and 150Mbps link rates, but your router is defaulting to 20MHz mode when set to auto).

Your only other option is download InSSIDer on to the laptop and see what wireless networks are around you. If you have a bunch spread across the channels, you have no hope (other than the above new router/client/alternate firmware). If there isn't much, instead of using auto channel setting, manually set the channel to the furthest away from any of the existing/strongest networks and see if that'll get it properly running in 40MHz mode.

Other than installing DD-WRT, I don't think there is another way to force the router to use 40 MHz. I have another router, Linksys E1200, even that router doesn't allow me to force 40 Mhz, it only allows me to select Auto (20/40).

I am connected to Channel 1. Near by, there exist only one more network on Channel 1 which is also 802.11n, however the signal is very weak (~16). Channel 2 has one network that's 802.11g with signal ~70.

So there isn't anything I can do on client side (laptop) to force 40 Mhz?

Correct me if I am wrong, but on 20 Mhz and wireless N, the max rate I can get is 54Mbps??
 
A 1x1 N card supports a maximum link rate of 65 Mbps with 20 MHz bandwidth and 150 Mbps with 40 MHz. You need a different client card to get higher link rates. See How Fast Can Your Wi-Fi Go? to find the maximum link rates that combinations of clients and routers provide.

Trying to force 40 MHz bandwidth is not the right approach. Properly designed products should prohibit it if there are interfering networks, no matter what your settings are. And it unnecessarily hogs bandwidth in an already crowded 2.4 GHz spectrum and also reduces your range.

The better approach is to change the card in your laptop or use an external adapter. Tiny ones are available in N300 for cheap money.

Netgear N300 Wireless Mini USB Adapter (WNA3100M)
ir
">Netgear N300 Wireless Mini USB Adapter (WNA3100M)
ir


TP-LINK TL-WN823N 300Mbps Wireless Mini USB Adapter
ir
">TP-LINK TL-WN823N 300Mbps Wireless Mini USB Adapter
ir
 
If you are using InSSIDer to do a wifi survey, that is -70dBm...which is a realtively weak signal. -16dBm is HUGELY strong for the other one, unless that is a mistyped number or you are reading off something else (like the network rating, which is different than the actual signal strength in InSSIDer).

However, since there is a network on channel 1 and channel 2, and unless you failed to mention it, nothing anywhere else, you should be able to set the channel to 11 and it'll likely enable 40MHz then. There would be no overlap with the other two networks (the way 40MHz is done with OFDM, setting high channel (IE 11), means it'll create a 40MHz bonded WLAN using channels 7 and 11. A channel 2 WLAN will only overlap up through channel 6 and butt in to, but NOT overlap anything on channel 7 and higher).

So give channel 11 a try. It might allow to enable 40MHz mode.
 
If you are using InSSIDer to do a wifi survey, that is -70dBm...which is a realtively weak signal. -16dBm is HUGELY strong for the other one, unless that is a mistyped number or you are reading off something else (like the network rating, which is different than the actual signal strength in InSSIDer).

However, since there is a network on channel 1 and channel 2, and unless you failed to mention it, nothing anywhere else, you should be able to set the channel to 11 and it'll likely enable 40MHz then. There would be no overlap with the other two networks (the way 40MHz is done with OFDM, setting high channel (IE 11), means it'll create a 40MHz bonded WLAN using channels 7 and 11. A channel 2 WLAN will only overlap up through channel 6 and butt in to, but NOT overlap anything on channel 7 and higher).

So give channel 11 a try. It might allow to enable 40MHz mode.

Sorry, I wasn't using InSSIDer. I was using WifiInfoView. The signal I reported was signal quality in percentage, not dBm.

Sorry I did fail to mention there are were clients on Channel 3 to 11 however, I thought they didn't matter.

Looks like even if I had 2x2, I can't utilize 40Mhz mode because no matter what, there always will be other neighboring wifi networks interrupting.

From this whitepaper it seems that even with 2x2, the max speed I can get on 20Mhz is ~130Mbps. However, my question is, in order to achieve this speed, do I need to use 5Ghz band or is it on 2.4Ghz??? I thought the only advantage of 2x2 vs. 1x1 is that it can use 5Ghz band...
 
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Update the driver from Broadcom website, and you should at the very least get better speeds.

Wifi NIC it self has settings in properties of the card. Google each setting and make proper changes, be sure to test each setting individually after making changes.


Here is a simple math for you;
Link speed / 2 = Actual speed (+/- 10%) Your results may vary on based on a dozen variables.
 
Looks like even if I had 2x2, I can't utilize 40Mhz mode because no matter what, there always will be other neighboring wifi networks interrupting.

From this whitepaper, it seems that even with 2x2, the max speed I can get on 20Mhz is ~130Mbps. However, my question is, in order to achieve this speed, do I need to use 5Ghz band or is it on 2.4Ghz??? I thought the only advantage of 2x2 vs. 1x1 is that it can use 5Ghz band...


So much misunderstanding

Best thing to do is go back to basics and learn everything from scratch. Wiki has tons of info.

Things you need to learn are the differences between;
2.4ghz and 5ghz.
1x1 vs 2x2 and 3x3.
20Mhz vs 40mhz vs 80mhz.
 
From this whitepaper it seems that even with 2x2, the max speed I can get on 20Mhz is ~130Mbps. However, my question is, in order to achieve this speed, do I need to use 5Ghz band or is it on 2.4Ghz??? I thought the only advantage of 2x2 vs. 1x1 is that it can use 5Ghz band...
The number of transmit/receive chains determines the maximum number of MIMO streams. More streams means higher link rates. This is described in the article I linked earlier.

Channel bandwidth is a second factor in determining maximum link rate. 20 and 40 MHz bandwidth is allowed in 2.4 GHz. 802.11ac specifies 20, 40, 80 and 160 MHz channel bandwidth use in 5 GHz only. Each 20 MHz represents one channel in either band. So 80 MHz bandwidth uses four channels, 40 MHz bandwidth uses two.
 
TL;DR - If you want faster speeds, just find a 2:2/300Mbps capable 802.11n wifi card to drop in to your laptop to replace the 1:1/150Mbps capable one in your laptop. That'll roughly double your speeds, give or take a little.

To quibble Thiggins, every 20MHz uses 4 channels, as each channel is 5MHz wide. The channel you choose is what your network is centered on. So channel 1 actually is centered on channel 1, +/-10Mhz (so it'll cover channels 2 and 3 on the high side). Channel 6 is centered on 6, but it'll overlap in to channels 3, 4, 7 and 8.

OFDM/CD for 11a, g, n and ac specifies that the channel selected is the center and strongest part of the radio broadcast, but the signal strength does and is required to drop off from the center. In the edge, it is required to drop, I think it is, 20dBm by the time it reaches the edge of the frequency band used (which is a thousand times weaker than the center). In effect what you see modeled in diagrams and stuff is a trapozoidal wave form with roughly 15Mhz at maximum strength and the 2.5Mhz or on each side dropping off in a linear fashion to the noise floor. That isn't exactly how it would really look on an oscillascope because radios, amps and filters are not going to be that perfect.

If you had a router or firmware that allowed you to force 40MHz, of course you could use it. That might not be best and it likely would make you a rude wifi neighbor. In my experience in my townhouse where I had a ton of neighboring wifi networks, I could use 40MHz mode and it worked great, in the same room as my router. If I left the room it was actually slower than setting it to 20MHz mode and I am sure it added extra interference for my neighbors networks.

In my current house I have zero networks near me (+1 semi-rural living!), so 40MHz is fine and works great.

One of the things you can look at doing is getting a router that supports 5GHz, even if just 11n, and a client wifi card that supports 5GHz. That will almost deffinitely allow you to use 40MHz mode in 5GHz as well as having minimal to no disruption from neighbors, both because of all of the extra channels as well as the low penetration of 5GHz.

That would represent a rough doubling of your wifi performance by being able to do that, at least close to the router. 5GHz drops off fast, so a few rooms over it might not be much if any better than 2.4GHz at 20MHz is, but if you set it up right, your client will switch to whichever band (2.4 or 5GHz) is going to be faster at any given point in time.

The number of streams is independent of the channel width you utilize.

In general with 11n, 1 stream if 65Mbps, 2 is 130Mbps and 3 is 195Mbps at 20MHz. On 40MHz it is generally 150/300/450Mbps. There are some exceptions, a few products will advertise and link at slightly higher speeds on 20MHz. I've seen some single stream 20MHz that advertises 72Mbps and 2 stream at 144Mbps (I don't think I've seen any 3 stream that advertise higher speeds).

My Netgear 3500L actual advertises 144Mbps on 2:2 20Mhz and I can at least verify that Windows claims that as the link rate if connected to it. I have no way of knowing if there is any performance difference or if there are any tweaks to get there, or if it is just a different way that the router manufacturers advertise what the speeds actually are.

The reason why channel bonding, going from 20MHz to 40MHz and also 40MHz to 80Mhz increases bandwidth by a little more than double is for the reason I mentioned above. OFDM/CD requires that signal strength drops off by a lot once you get near the edges of the frequencies you are utilizing. This means the edges of the frequencies aren't terribly useful for transmitting or receiving data because the radio signal is so much lower. Basically what is transmitted in those edge frequencies has to be done at a lower rate than the central parts. So, if you assume on 20MHz, you can use 15MHz at max speed and 5MHz (2.5MHz on each end) at reduce rates, you add it all up to get your 65Mbps (single stream). Now, if you bond a pair of 20MHz blocks together, you still have to reduce signal power in the outer edges, but now, you have 35MHz at full power and still only the edge 2.5MHz on each side (5MHz total) at reduced power and speed.

That is why a single stream at 40MHz is 2.3x faster than a single stream at 20MHz is, because you have less edge frequency at lower power and speeds as a ratio of the overall carrier.
 
@azazel1024 @thiggins @KGB7

Thank you very much for great explanations and support. After reading your replies, and the whitepaper I posted, I completely understand why I am achieving slow throughput, and what needs to be done to increase the throughput.

On a different note, I have few other questions:

1) If all neighboring wifi networks are on either channel 1, 6, 11, which channel do I choose my router to work on? Will I have better performance if I choose either channel 1,6,or11 vs. choosing a channel other than those (2-5,7-10). Thus my question is asking asking: is it better to have the same channel interference vs. different channel interference?

2) I used this method to create a wireless access point. When setting up the wireless settings for each of the routers, I need to keep the settings the same (SSID, password, etc..). However, should I keep the channel the same or should I keep them different? I was planning to use one router to only allow b/g clients, and the other router for only n clients...

3) How do I know if my wireless card supports 5Ghz band?
 
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1) If all channels are being used, the best thing is to use a control channel (1, 6 or 11) and test each one at the time of day that you expect to be using it most. The testing will only be accurate as long as the test environment stays the same.

2) Use different channels. As well as different ssid's (so you can control where the devices are connecting to).

3) If it shows a known 5GHz ssid as a possible access point to connect to; you have a dual band wireless card. Otherwise, we need the model/part number of the card to determine it's capabilities.
 
If you are getting too much interference from neighboring channels on 2.4GHz., and you want to increase your speeds and streaming ability, I'd suggest going to 5GHz. Your router only supports 2.4GHz. according to the specs that I've found. So it would cost you some in terms of a new (or refurbished) router and a client wireless adapter for your laptop (external USB or internal replacement) to be able to use 5GHz., but there's very little interference there. This is due to the range of 5GHz. dropping off much quicker than 2.4GHz. However, my router gives me great 5GHz. coverage all over my house (about 2000 sq.ft., two stories) and I can only see one very weak neighboring 5GHz. wireless network. On 2.4GHz., I see about 20 neighboring wireless networks...not good.

This will be really improve your wireless if you can do it. As others have said, using 40MHz. channel width on 2.4GHz. isn't a good answer, both from your neighbors' standpoints, and if there's lots of interference from other networks, your router may drop down to 20MHz. channel width, anyways. If you could force it to stay at 40MHz., I doubt that would help you, if your issue is neighbors interfering on 2.4GHz. I currently have my channel width set to 80MHz. on 5GHz. band for wireless-AC, but have used 40MHz. in the past for wireless-n, and that worked really well and didn't bother anyone.

So, as far as wireless goes, looks to me like your best bet is to move to 5GHz. It may take you a while due to cost, but will solve your wireless network interference problems.
 

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