What do i sacrifice if I skip the router and just use a wireless card?

[closeout]

Redoing some home hardware and was thinking about adding a utility type server(serve files, torrents, minimal web, etc). Initially I had set aside some of the budget for a newer router (linksys e3000 running openwrt). When looking over where I could save some money to have enough left to get a nas going I got to wondering, could I just skip the router entirely, run the cable modem direct to the file server and have people connect up to it to get internet? I'm guessing the range may be a deal breaker but if it isn't I think I'd go that route. Is going routerless feasible?

Thanks,

 

[AdvHomeServer]

It's about as feasible as going without indoor plumbing or your microwave oven. A decent router that's used or refurbished can be pretty cheap. What's the problem? Or maybe you can just get a big antenna and take public wifi from somewhere.

 

[BreakingDad]

Of Course it's feasible. When I first had broadband I had an NT server running ICS with hardrives in it (like a NAS). All the computers in the house connected to it via a switch.

It worked just fine.

Offices use much the same techniques these days with 1 server and attached raid drives then a load of clients connected. I think they run MS server software.

For most home networks though I think a router is probably cheaper and easier.

 

[AdvHomeServer]

Of Course it's feasible. When I first had broadband I had an NT server running ICS with hardrives in it (like a NAS). All the computers in the house connected to it via a switch.

It worked just fine.

Offices use much the same techniques these days with 1 server and attached raid drives then a load of clients connected. I think they run MS server software.

For most home networks though I think a router is probably cheaper and easier.

How does DHCP work with that? Switches don't do that. APIPA? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/220874

MS Servers offer DHCP services but routers do more than that and installing a server is a lot harder than spending about $25 on a refurb N300 router.

 

[BreakingDad]

Windows NT and Server have their own DHCP client.

Routers and Servers both have advantages and disadvantages.

 

[azazel1024]

Of Course it's feasible. When I first had broadband I had an NT server running ICS with hardrives in it (like a NAS). All the computers in the house connected to it via a switch.

It worked just fine.

Offices use much the same techniques these days with 1 server and attached raid drives then a load of clients connected. I think they run MS server software.

For most home networks though I think a router is probably cheaper and easier.

Actually not really. Most offices use routers. Very few "roll their own" router in a box, or dual purpose a server as both the router/firewall and a server.

Unless you have to, using the same hardware for routing that you use for other functions is generally a bad idea for security's sake. A little better if you are running VMs, but even then, ideally you have your router/firewall/UTM functionality physically seperate from anything relating to data or services internal to the network.

Yes, you can run your server as a firewall as well, but it just generally isn't a good idea. Either build a dedicated PFSense or DD-WRT x86 box, or else just spend the $30-100 to get a dedicated router. Besides, it is likely to do the whole wireless thing MUCH better than a build your own, especially as the later you are going to have to get a couple of wifi cards (if you want dual band) if you want it as a wifi router. More expensive in the end.

 

[closeout]

When I was laying out budget for each piece of what I wanted to do In my mind I set $200 aside for "fixing the slow wireless in the house". Phase 2 includes working out a diy nas solution. If I could re-allocate some or all of that $200 I was planning on spending on a router to the nas effort I might be able to frankenbox something together to pilot and when the money for then nas stuff comes around I'd already have a solid idea of where the shortcomings were from the pilot. That was where my head was. It sounds like I may end up spending more going the diy route, but that isnt a deal breaker if it is only moderately more and there is a positive trade off. Would I be able to achieve comparable range to a wireless router using pci or usb wireless adapters?

 

[AdvHomeServer]

When I was laying out budget for each piece of what I wanted to do In my mind I set $200 aside for "fixing the slow wireless in the house". Phase 2 includes working out a diy nas solution. If I could re-allocate some or all of that $200 I was planning on spending on a router to the nas effort I might be able to frankenbox something together to pilot and when the money for then nas stuff comes around I'd already have a solid idea of where the shortcomings were from the pilot. That was where my head was. It sounds like I may end up spending more going the diy route, but that isnt a deal breaker if it is only moderately more and there is a positive trade off. Would I be able to achieve comparable range to a wireless router using pci or usb wireless adapters?

Hobbies and odd projects can be a lot of fun for you personally. Why do you want to put your family through this? Besides, your idea for wireless at the bottom doesn't make obvious sense. Please explain how it will work.

 

[htismaqe]

Would I be able to achieve comparable range to a wireless router using pci or usb wireless adapters?

Doubtful. Most PCI and USB adapters are designed to be clients. They don't have amplification that most routers have.

 

[azazel1024]

Doubtful. Most PCI and USB adapters are designed to be clients. They don't have amplification that most routers have.

And are not concurrent dual band. If you want that, you'll need two adapters.

As a price comparison, a pair of Asus AC-68 PCIe adapters are going to be $96 a pop, for about $200. That just gets you the wireless end of things. You'll need at least 2 network ports to run a server as a router, so you may need to add on an extra NIC, or else go higher end on the motherboard if purchasing new gear to have dual NICs onboard.

The R7000 is around $185, the AC68u is About $200 also. The AC66u is $170. An Archer C7 is ~$99.

For vaguely similar capabilities, you'll pay roughly the same, possibly more, than a stand alone router. ESPECIALLY if to get good coverage you need multiple routers.

Odds are good to get the best coverage and speeds, you need two routers. Exceptions are if you live in a nice small 2,000sq-ft single story house (no basement). Or less. 2x4 construction only. No duct work in the walls.

That is if you are going for good performance instead of "just get devices on the network wirelessly". If that is what you were going with, then a couple of inexpensive N600 routers should do you also, for about $100-150 total for both.

DIY wifi router is really only because you feel like it is a fun project, not because it'll get you necessarily the best performance, range or capability. You are better off with alternate firmware and a router as an appliance if you want the best performance, range and capability. Some people DO DIY routers, but that is because they have very specific routing/QoS needs which a router as an appliance cannot do. FOR ROUTING. And it really isn't for saving money. For Wifi performance, router as an appliance is more or less where it is at.

 

[mreckhof]

That's all a router is - a 'pc' and interfaces.

What you would sacrifice is security if you screw up the firewall rules doing it yourself.

If you aren't familiar with IP networking and security, either use a pre-packaged router that provides a decent interface and basic security from the ground up (pretty much any of them) or at least choose your server distro (if Linux) based on what kind of setup help it has for security. There are quite a few that focus on that.

With a basic home consumer router, you would at least need to either put the server on a 'DMZ' interface/ip pass through or specifically open something up to accidentally expose the data on your NAS.

However, if you roll your own and merge the two, exposing your data could be as simple as starting the services in the wrong order. Probably not what you want or worth the risk.

 

[stevech]

I too would never connect an internet modem's WAN output to other than a router. No software firewall in a PC.

 

[toyotabedzrock]

I too would never connect an internet modem's WAN output to other than a router. No software firewall in a PC.

Microsoft used to make ISA server to do just that. It is actually rock solid. But they stopped after an awesome track record of security.

I want to create a diy linux router to replace my aging wrt54g. But info on running a wireless card in AP mode is so scattered and outdated. And the people who manage the wireless networking on Linux do not update the documentation often. And the iptables is actually 4 different firewalls and a replacement is being made to combine them all, nftables. It is as if no one wants to post clear info.

And to be honest I distrust the security of any router with stock firmware. And even openwrt seems to move at a glacial pace and has few developers which makes me less sure that security has been addressed.

 

[stevech]

I want to create a diy linux router to replace my aging wrt54g.

You could use your time to learn much more useful skills!