What's your experience: Does your mesh system keep working if the WAN goes down?

[thiggins]

I know this is an odd question, since what good is an Internet router without internet, right?

But in my work as a Wi-Fi test engineer, we put these systems in RF-tight chambers and typically don't have an internet connection available.

I know the eero Pro will continue to operate without an internet connection once it is set up. But does anyone have experience with gear from other manufacturers?

Specifically, I'm looking at a TP-Link Deco BE63 for development purposes, because it's cheap. I don't really want to spend $1500+ for a 3 node mesh just for developing test scripts. So, let's skip any non-ASUS trashing and just tell me if anyone has tried pulling their WAN and seeing if their mesh system still runs. Thanks!

 

[aex.perez]

Mine does...
Anything that is on or makes up the LAN/WiFi stays up, though without Internet/WAN much is comprimised, i.e Streaming, IoT as examples.

 

[thiggins]

@aex.perez Thanks for the info. I assume from your sig that you have an ASUS AiMesh setup. I'd expect that it would stay up since app/internet based management for ASUS is not the norm.

 

[aex.perez]

@aex.perez Thanks for the info. I assume from your sig that you have an ASUS AiMesh setup. I'd expect that it would stay up since app/internet based management for ASUS is not the norm.

Correct
I'll add that AT&T WiFi extenders (also mesh) the same applies

 

[RMerlin]

Specifically, I'm looking at a TP-Link Deco BE63 for development purposes, because it's cheap.

Not to bring politics into play, but wouldn't that be a problem for you if TP-Link devices were to get banned in the US in the near future? Unless you don't expect to ever have to reproduce your existing test setup a second time (for example for another developer/tester), with the same devices you already purchased.

Not sure what`s the latest news on that threat.

 

[thiggins]

Not to bring politics into play, but wouldn't that be a problem for you if TP-Link devices were to get banned in the US in the near future? Unless you don't expect to ever have to reproduce your existing test setup a second time (for example for another developer/tester), with the same devices you already purchased.

Not sure what`s the latest news on that threat.

I take your point. But this is more for test script development. Measurement correlation isn't part of what I need to do.

 

[RMerlin]

I take your point. But this is more for test script development. Measurement correlation isn't part of what I need to do.

Gotcha.

The only other possible candidate I can think of would be Netgear's Orbi line, but at a quick glance it seems to be nearly as expensive as Asus' solutions, and I don't know if they require cloud connectivity.

 

[Tech9]

I have installed 5-6 Deco sets, but never needed to test what happens with WAN disconnected. They definitely need WAN for initial setup* and most likely retain the state just like eero/nest kits. They have online management, but not online controller. The mesh they create is actually part if Qualcomm Immersive Home or whatever they call it now. It's built into Qualcomm hardware/software including multi-link backhaul for newer systems. I don't know if it works or used in all kits. I know red LED showing lost Internet connection comes up on the router and satellites. It can be disabled it in the App.

* - there is an exception for Deco sets used as ISP provided equipment. They come with modified firmware and off-line setup, require just new online account email/password for remote control. Unlikely to find something like this in stores though.

 

[thiggins]

The only other possible candidate I can think of would be Netgear's Orbi line, but at a quick glance it seems to be nearly as expensive as Asus' solutions, and I don't know if they require cloud connectivity.

Yes, very pricey. Last I knew, which was awhile ago, they set up using an app, but had web screens also for limited local admin.

 

[thiggins]

Thanks @Tech9. It's likely that the system keeps operating if WAN is down, but I'd like to be sure.

 

[sfx2000]

Synology SRM 1.3 stays up if the WAN service is down when mesh points are deployed.

That being said - never tried to set them up without WAN on first go...

 

[sfx2000]

But in my work as a Wi-Fi test engineer, we put these systems in RF-tight chambers and typically don't have an internet connection available.

Check with the vendor of your RF shield boxes - on my last project/company/startup, we had isolated pass-thru connectors for ethernet, usb, and UART/serial as DUT's usually need to have some level of access for control and monitoring.

Keep in mind for power to the DUT - whether mains (our AC/DC adapter was soldered on to the mainboard) - ingress for power is a consideration - not just for 50/60Hz but also in consideration for switching power supplies... switchers can throw a lot of broadband noise up band via harmonics and intermod can always present challenges...

 

[Tech9]

but I'd like to be sure

Deco X50 works with WAN disconnected, if it helps. Called the person who has one, asked him to run a file transfer between two PCs connected to main and satellite and disconnect the WAN. The system is wired though, not really in mesh configuration. Not sure what revision, it was installed a while ago. Deco X50 has five revisions. This is the issue with TP-Link - by the time you get this new Deco BE63 it may have revision V3. It already has revisions V1.6 and V2.6. Hope is they add functionality and don't remove.

 

[thiggins]

@Tech9 Thanks again for the info.
@sfx2000 The boxes have filtered Ethernet and USB ports. The issue is that customer sites generally lock down their internal networks pretty tightly these days. Getting authorization to add a device to the network is a big deal.

 

[Tech9]

Is this a research for business applications? Not sure if this is helpful, but in UniFi for example plugging in a new device results in no network change. New APs become part of the available devices, but do nothing until adopted and told what to do. What radio, what SSID, what network - all comes after the installation. Whoever physically installs the equipment may have no visibility over any part of the network. The sysadmin after does the configuration. Perhaps done this way for the reasons you mention above. WAN connection is not required, online account is not required.

 

[sfx2000]

The boxes have filtered Ethernet and USB ports. The issue is that customer sites generally lock down their internal networks pretty tightly these days. Getting authorization to add a device to the network is a big deal.

Could something like a NUC or laptop act as the WAN -- don't need to hook it up to the customer LAN...

We had to do something similar for one of our customer acceptance lab setups for Keysight and R&S setups (customer being a major telco over in Redmond, WA)

 

[thiggins]

@Tech9 This isn't research. It's the reality in test labs.
@sfx2000 A NUC wouldn't help unless it emulated whatever server was required for operation.

At any rate, I think I'm ok as long as the mesh stays function when the WAN goes down. I would think this would be a functional requirement, but then again, that's not how most "Smart home" devices work. At least they didn't when I was testing them a few years ago. Most would fail to operate when we did our "Kill the internet" test.

 

[sfx2000]

@sfx2000 A NUC wouldn't help unless it emulated whatever server was required for operation.

FWIW - at least for mobile handset testing, most keysight/agilent boxes support just this kind of functionality, as most mobile phones want some kind of IP connectivity to function correctly during lab testing at the carrier labs.

Spirent did a decent job with their "Super Racks" back in the day for 3G/4G testing...

 

[sfx2000]

At any rate, I think I'm ok as long as the mesh stays function when the WAN goes down. I would think this would be a functional requirement, but then again, that's not how most "Smart home" devices work. At least they didn't when I was testing them a few years ago. Most would fail to operate when we did our "Kill the internet" test.

As my last project was focused on IoT, specifically Alarm Panels/Security Systems - alternate radio access for both local and WAN side was a consideration - WAN connectivity if the wires were cut into the premies - so something like LoraWAN or similar as a fail back there if 3G/4G connectivity wasn't possible.

On the LAN side - used to be wired, but a lot of the newer stuff is wireless in the 2.4GHz band - some wifi, some BT/BLE, and some stuff down in the 900MHz ISM band, such as Z-Wave and similar...

Interesting these days - jammers and the bad guys using them - most hit the 2.4GHz band to knock out BT/BLE/WiFi devices, along with broadband interference on 3G/4G Bands 2/4 1900 PCS, and the 1700 AWS to knock out the WAN fallbacks...

 

[Digilog]

Most would fail to operate when we did our "Kill the internet" test.

I would think it would originate from the order they have the modules booting. The static address of the network and the DHCP server has to be up before the 802.11s binary is loaded for the mesh. Otherwise the mesh binary will bind to the WAN's IPv4's STP that it would still work, but spartan addresses from the mesh will be exposed to WAN. When the WAN is disconnected, the whole system is downed.