Where to get good Patch cables

[coxhaus]

So, I need some good patch cables to run POE+ over for wireless APs. I have not been happy with Amazon on longer cables. They are trying to sell cheap stuff. I looked at Walmart. Walmart's cables are not even branded CAT anything even though they sell them as CAT6a. Best buy I plan to look and maybe Altex. I would like real copper the correct diameter not smaller. Anybody know?

 

[drinkingbird]

So, I need some good patch cables to run POE+ over for wireless APs. I have not been happy with Amazon on longer cables. They are trying to sell cheap stuff. I looked at Walmart. Walmart's cables are not even branded CAT anything even though they sell them as CAT6a. Best buy I plan to look and maybe Altex. I would like real copper the correct diameter not smaller. Anybody know?

CCA isn't the end of the world (especially in ethernet), but pure copper is readily available too.

I'd look at the monoprice 23AWG cat6 (more power carrying ability but a bit less bandwidth/noise rejection) or the 26AWG CAT6A (should still be fine for POE+ and will handle 10G at full 328 feet). I believe they had a 24AWG cat6a but not seeing it on their site anymore, it is on amazon but pretty pricey. Most of them are pure copper.

I mean if you want really good stuff you're looking at Panduit but that is big $$

Personally I have a spool of CAT6A solid 23AWG and just do my runs and terminate them myself. But it requires special ends and crimper, unless you use punchdown/keystone jacks (still have to get 6A rated ones and terminate them properly, with little to no untwisting).

Edit - actually walmart has the monoprice 24AWG 6A for decent prices. Shipped by monoprice. Not sure why I'm not finding them on monoprice's site. Monoprice's site does have CAT8 24AWG and are running a 20% off coupon so the prices on those are decent too.

Oddly they rate their CAT6 at 550Mhz and Cat6A at 500. Cat6 is technically 250 "minimum" but if it tests higher they can advertise that. So the 24awg Cat 6 may give you exactly what you need. The only downside is CAT6 does not require the shielding between pairs to prevent crosstalk so likely can't do 10gig at full 328 feet.

 

[EPR]

Best Buy blue cat 6 cables are Monoprice. Also there Insignia cat 6 gray cables are shielded. Using both without issue here.

 

[degrub]

there have been a few threads on here before about monoprice versus name brand cabling from cable suppliers used in commercial applications. i don't have a handy link though, but i think either @Tech9 or @L&LD were involved in the discussion.
Bottom line was avoid monoprice if you want higher quality, reliable cabling in the walls. For patch and other easily replaced applications, may be good enough.

 

[EPR]

Didn't want to read this @degrub. Now my ocd will kick and have to replace cables. I know I have Monoprice cat 6 in wall. These
were put in during construction of our home. At least they are in conduit. To bad I just found this forum lately...

I found this thread Recommended Ethernet Cable Brands. And this reply @Trip here.

Edit: I looked at material on installer invoice, all in wall is Vertical Cable. Now I can just replace the other cables.

 

[drinkingbird]

there have been a few threads on here before about monoprice versus name brand cabling from cable suppliers used in commercial applications. i don't have a handy link though, but i think either @Tech9 or @L&LD were involved in the discussion.
Bottom line was avoid monoprice if you want higher quality, reliable cabling in the walls. For patch and other easily replaced applications, may be good enough.

This is the same generic response everyone makes about monoprice.

If you want inexpensive patch cables that are good 99.9% of the time, pretty hard to beat vs other brands on amazon.

If you want individually swept and tested cables, and are prepared to pay 5 to 10x as much, then no, don't use monoprice.

For bulk cable, I've never used monoprice and probably wouldn't since there isn't a big cost advantage and replacing it would be a huge hassle if there are problems. Sure, Vertical, Commscope, Belden etc are nice, but Southwire or General Cable from big box stores is going to work just as good for home use.

 

[drinkingbird]

Didn't want to read this @degrub. Now my ocd will kick and have to replace cables. I know I have Monoprice cat 6 in wall. These
were put in during construction of our home. At least they are in conduit. To bad I just found this forum lately...

I found this thread Recommended Ethernet Cable Brands. And this reply @Trip here.

Edit: I looked at material on installer invoice, all in wall is Vertical Cable. Now I can just replace the other cables.

You don't have to replace anything that is working fine. You literally say you're using monoprice without issue, so what is the problem - someone on the internet tells you it is junk and they all the sudden stopped working fine for you?

If you plan to run POE+ and it is 30 AWG or smaller then yeah that needs to be swapped probably (though most stuff doesn't draw all that much power normally so it may be fine). I wouldn't risk POE++ on something that small though.

Vertical in the wall is good. For patch cables, monoprice is fine as long as you avoid their flat and "ultra thin" crap.

If you have unlimited budget then pay for the big names that are used in data centers.

Or just buy a spool of a halfway decent brand and make your own runs.

 

[coxhaus]

I have run miles of AT&T cable. I had a cabling crew back when I worked that I could use. Good stuff. I have used Belden before they sold to China; I am sure they are cheaper now.
I think I want better than just for home use stuff. I want the cable to have CAT6 or CAT6a printed on the outside casing.

I don't have access to a Fluke now so I am kind of working blind.
I have 1 Amazon cable that causes my POE+ wireless unit to run very hot.

 

[drinkingbird]

I have run miles of AT&T cable. I had a cabling crew back when I worked that I could use. Good stuff. I have used Belden before they sold to China; I am sure they are cheaper now.
I think I want better than just for home use stuff. I want the cable to have CAT6 or CAT6a printed on the outside casing.

I don't have access to a Fluke now so I am kind of working blind.
I have 1 Amazon cable that causes my POE+ wireless unit to run very hot.

They all have that printed on them. Doesn't mean they passed any sort of test or are meeting any sort of spec.

If you're concerned with the power handling ability, all that matters is the wire gauge really. Even the junkiest CCA wire will carry 30 watts at 330 feet if it is thick enough.

I've got panduit 6A running my my walls, only because I found a great deal on some spools of surplus years ago. I would not pay full price for that for home use.

Amazon basics, best buy, monoprice, all made in the same place, as long as the gauge is thick enough for the power you're sending, they'll most likely work fine.

If your POE+ AP is running hot, it is getting plenty of power. If the cable or switch is running hot, your cable may be an issue. But to know for sure you need to look at the stats and see what the voltage drop is. If the AP is drawing high current at a much lower voltage than what the switch is sending, then that's an issue. Don't see why that would make it run any hotter though, watts are watts as far as heat is concerned, but the power supply in the AP may be running at a much lower efficiency, so I guess it may be wasting power and generating more heat.

If you want a step up, supposedly Cable Matters are better. I'm not sold on them though, I've got a few around and they look and test identical to other no-name patch cords I have.

You don't need a fluke for testing. A couple PCs with IPERF to test throughput and errors, and look at POE stats on switch and device to make sure not too much voltage drop.

There are basically two classes of patch cords - chinese white label and expensive data center stuff. Not much in between. So do you want to spend $5 to $10 on a patch or $50 to $100?

 

[coxhaus]

They all have that printed on them. Doesn't mean they passed any sort of test or are meeting any sort of spec.

The cables I looked at Walmart did not have CAT6 or any CAT makings. They had other stuff marked on them. So, it is somebodies' interpretation that maybe it is close enough. I interpret it to be Chinese gobbly gook that we saved a few cents on.

I changed the cable on my hot wireless to one of my old good cables and it quit running so hot. Nothing else changed. It was 50 feet or so. My wireless units and switches are Cisco. I have a new Cisco wireless AP that I need to add in my wife's sewing room.

 

[EPR]

@drinkingbird I just looked at all the BB cables I have and none have any markings stamped on them. All my idle cat 5e cables are all stamped. So
I do want to replace these. On my wired network I have to have good fast data, think trading data, stocks & futures. Also on the wireless too, since
that is used for everything else. My wife loves to entertain so wireless guest for those peeps. Hoping for the chicky pool party soon. Do you have a
suggestion for already built cat 6 cables?

 

[L&LD]

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[drinkingbird]

The cables I looked at Walmart did not have CAT6 or any CAT makings. They had other stuff marked on them. So, it is somebodies' interpretation that maybe it is close enough. I interpret it to be Chinese gobbly gook that we saved a few cents on.

I changed the cable on my hot wireless to one of my old good cables and it quit running so hot. Nothing else changed. It was 50 feet or so. My wireless units and switches are Cisco.

Never once in my life seen a patch or bulk cable that doesn't say what it is. There is a lot of stuff printed on them but mixed in somewhere it will say what it is. There would be no reason to remove the markings from the bulk cable they're using to make the patches. I guess maybe some chinese place has started making cable with no markings, but if there are other markings on it, no idea why they wouldn't include the CAT rating. Not saying it is impossible, just seems very odd, never seen it myself and I've dealt with a lot of patch cables, even cheap generic ones.

What gauge was the patch you were using that was making the AP run hot? Like I said the only explanation for that was if there was a lot of voltage drop and the power supply was running really inefficient (they are designed for a certain voltage range) and pulling a lot of extra current. But I'd expect your switch and cable to be warm too, and the switch likely pushing more current than it is rated for.

When running POE, wire gauge comes into play much more. Especially with POE+ and ++

 

[drinkingbird]

@drinkingbird I just looked at all the BB cables I have and none have any markings stamped on them. All my idle cat 5e cables are all stamped. So
I do want to replace these. On my wired network I have to have good fast data, think trading data, stocks & futures. Also on the wireless too, since
that is used for everything else. My wife loves to entertain so wireless guest for those peeps. Hoping for the chicky pool party soon. Do you have a
suggestion for already built cat 6 cables?

There is no printing at all? Never seen that before, but guess it is possible.

Whatever you're trading at home, you're last in line compared to the big guys anyway, an extra few microseconds isn't going to change anything. The brokerages are executing trades in nanoseconds, they're batching yours and sending them once per second (this is what I do for work). Not to mention you're using a home router going through an ISP's shared and oversubscribed network, etc. And your wireless is limited by the wireless, unlikely that it will overload any cable you use. The ladies won't notice any difference.

I think the only cheaper cables that might approach data center quality might be Cables2Go (Legrand), but it still isn't going to compare to Panduit, etc. If you want Panduit, search around amazon, there are some 3rd party sellers with ok prices, probably discontinued ones etc. Of course there is a chance you'll get a fake. Belden, Panduit, and Commscope are the 3 I usually see in data centers. Commscope generally considered cream of the crop if you're willing to shell out the $$. But again search around, you can probably find surplus or discontinued ones at cheaper prices.

For home use (patch cable, not in wall), I'd just buy Monoprice. If one out of 10 is bad, throw it away. Make sure it is decent gauge wire. Hell I've got some amazon basics and some brand called C&E that had a price mistake on amazon years ago that I bought a bunch of. Both work fine with 0 errors on the ports and full throughput (granted my LAN runs at 1 gig, but have used them for lab work with 10GBaseT without issue too).

As long as you stick with true UTP or STP round cable, not the flat or ultra thin or other garbage, and a good gauge, 26 or bigger, you should be perfectly fine. CCA transmits fine, the main reason for pure copper is that aluminum can wear out quicker if you are flexing or bending it a lot, and bend radius is a bit more of a concern. If you kink a copper cable, it'll probably be fine, but CCA a bit more likely to have some internal damage (but with stranded cable used in patch cords, even that is pretty unlikely). Hell one of these days they'll figure out how to coat some cheap paper or plastic with copper and that will be the new norm for cheap cables. The electricity travels on the outside, not the inside, the core is just for structure.

 

[degrub]

This is the same generic response everyone makes about monoprice.

If you want inexpensive patch cables that are good 99.9% of the time, pretty hard to beat vs other brands on amazon.

If you want individually swept and tested cables, and are prepared to pay 5 to 10x as much, then no, don't use monoprice.

For bulk cable, I've never used monoprice and probably wouldn't since there isn't a big cost advantage and replacing it would be a huge hassle if there are problems. Sure, Vertical, Commscope, Belden etc are nice, but Southwire or General Cable from big box stores is going to work just as good for home use.

i did use monoprice cables for in room use for a number of years. Then i got a batch of poor ones, not failing from the get go, but became unreliable after a few months. So i cut their terminations and reterminated them. Still intermittent. Gave up on monoprice at that point.
Low or lowest cost comes with that risk. For the manufacturers that supply monoprice it is just a financial issue. For me it is a PITA that i would rather not deal with.

 

[coxhaus]

Never once in my life seen a patch or bulk cable that doesn't say what it is. There is a lot of stuff printed on them but mixed in somewhere it will say what it is. There would be no reason to remove the markings from the bulk cable they're using to make the patches. I guess maybe some chinese place has started making cable with no markings, but if there are other markings on it, no idea why they wouldn't include the CAT rating. Not saying it is impossible, just seems very odd, never seen it myself and I've dealt with a lot of patch cables, even cheap generic ones.

What gauge was the patch you were using that was making the AP run hot? Like I said the only explanation for that was if there was a lot of voltage drop and the power supply was running really inefficient (they are designed for a certain voltage range) and pulling a lot of extra current. But I'd expect your switch and cable to be warm too, and the switch likely pushing more current than it is rated for.

When running POE, wire gauge comes into play much more. Especially with POE+ and ++

The switch was normal warm. The APs were 4x4 APs pulling 25 watts each. The Chinese cable may not handle the higher watts units. If it was true CAT cable then it should work.
Aluminum needs to be thicker to carry the same power as copper. I don't want any aluminum cables even copper coated. It is hard to tell on Amazon as they don't label it in the description.

 

[EPR]

There is no printing at all? Never seen that before, but guess it is possible.

Nothing on the BB Blue cables at all. I look at 2 not opened and says Made in Vietnam. Th BB gray has only CAT 6 Network Cable on it in small type.

Whatever you're trading at home, you're last in line compared to the big guys anyway, an extra few microseconds isn't going to change anything. The brokerages are executing trades in nanoseconds, they're batching yours and sending them once per second (this is what I do for work). Not to mention you're using a home router going through an ISP's shared and oversubscribed network, etc. And your wireless is limited by the wireless, unlikely that it will overload any cable you use. The ladies won't notice any difference.

I know that, been trading for 30+ years. I do pay for better data from a couple sources. But throughput rules. Told wife we need to move close to a
backbone so I could tap in. Rolls eye's, so that did not work. lol

I think the only cheaper cables that might approach data center quality might be Cables2Go (Legrand), but it still isn't going to compare to Panduit, etc. If you want Panduit, search around amazon, there are some 3rd party sellers with ok prices, probably discontinued ones etc. Of course there is a chance you'll get a fake. Belden, Panduit, and Commscope are the 3 I usually see in data centers. Commscope generally considered cream of the crop if you're willing to shell out the $$. But again search around, you can probably find surplus or discontinued ones at cheaper prices.

For home use (patch cable, not in wall), I'd just buy Monoprice. If one out of 10 is bad, throw it away. Make sure it is decent gauge wire. Hell I've got some amazon basics and some brand called C&E that had a price mistake on amazon years ago that I bought a bunch of. Both work fine with 0 errors on the ports and full throughput (granted my LAN runs at 1 gig, but have used them for lab work with 10GBaseT without issue too).

As long as you stick with true UTP or STP round cable, not the flat or ultra thin or other garbage, and a good gauge, 26 or bigger, you should be perfectly fine. CCA transmits fine, the main reason for pure copper is that aluminum can wear out quicker if you are flexing or bending it a lot, and bend radius is a bit more of a concern. If you kink a copper cable, it'll probably be fine, but CCA a bit more likely to have some internal damage (but with stranded cable used in patch cords, even that is pretty unlikely). Hell one of these days they'll figure out how to coat some cheap paper or plastic with copper and that will be the new norm for cheap cables. The electricity travels on the outside, not the inside, the core is just for structure.

I'll get my Fluke out and check continuity on these BB cables when I get a chance. But these are getting replaced. Will pay for known quality anything.

 

[drinkingbird]

The switch was normal warm. The APs were 4x4 APs pulling 25 watts each. The Chinese cable may not handle the higher watts units. If it was true CAT cable then it should work.
Aluminum needs to be thicker to carry the same power as copper. I don't want any aluminum cables even copper coated. It is hard to tell on Amazon as they don't label it in the description.

CAT has nothing to do with power carrying ability. It could be untwisted and carry plenty of voltage/current if the proper thickness.

In CCA the aluminum carries no power whatsoever, it is simply a structure for the copper to sit on. Skin effect means the electricity passes only on the outside, which is where the copper is, that is the whole reason for CCA. The disadvantages of CCA are that the copper can wear off (an issue for coax that is plugged/unplugged a lot, not an issue for ethernet as the concoctors are not exposed to any wear) and that frequent bending can cause cracking more quickly, but who is regularly flexing an ethernet cable at sharp angles?

 

[drinkingbird]

Nothing on the BB Blue cables at all. I look at 2 not opened and says Made in Vietnam. Th BB gray has only CAT 6 Network Cable on it in small type.


I know that, been trading for 30+ years. I do pay for better data from a couple sources. But throughput rules. Told wife we need to move close to a
backbone so I could tap in. Rolls eye's, so that did not work. lol

I'll get my Fluke out and check continuity on these BB cables when I get a chance. But these are getting replaced. Will pay for known quality anything.

Doesn't matter where you are on the internet, if you want to compete for trading, you colo your server at the exchange and/or use private point to point dedicated circuits. The internet does not come into play at all.

Continuity testing won't tell you anything, you need to sweep the cable, ideally frequency but a throughput test with error reporting will tell you if it can handle that particular speed.

Throughput has very little to do with trading, unless you're consuming the full OPRA or CTA feeds in which case you're above 10 gig and not using home internet. Latency rules, and you aren't getting good latency on any ISP or across any internet segment. The matching engines are so far removed from the internet it is pointless to even try to shave a millisecond or two off.

Even if you have exceptionally good latency, you're not licensed to trade direct and I doubt you're paying someone like Instinet to use their license to trade direct and do drop copies. You're going through a brokerage house/middleman and the ones oriented to individual non-pro traders, even the best of them, are executing in seconds, not nanoseconds.

If you aren't having errors/drops, not sure what you're worried about. An expensive cable will give the same throughput and latency as a cheap cable, as long as they both can handle the speed without drops. Obviously fiber optic over many miles, that isn't the case, higher clarity cable has lower latency, but copper will be the same between all cables up to its max distance, again as long as it isn't dropping and retransmitting.

But if you have the cash to burn and want the best, look at some of the brands I mentioned.

 

[drinkingbird]

i did use monoprice cables for in room use for a number of years. Then i got a batch of poor ones, not failing from the get go, but became unreliable after a few months. So i cut their terminations and reterminated them. Still intermittent. Gave up on monoprice at that point.
Low or lowest cost comes with that risk. For the manufacturers that supply monoprice it is just a financial issue. For me it is a PITA that i would rather not deal with.

Were they running POE? That's the only thing I can think that would cause the wire itself to go bad, other than repeated bending etc. Have seen pairs melt their very thin jacket when small gauge ethernet is used with higher power POE. Usually not a dead short, just enough to lower the resistance between the two wires.

Yes of course low cost comes with a higher risk of failure, but the alternative is paying hundreds for some patch cables to use around the house. Given that the only patch cables I've had go bad were at the termination (usually the jacket pulls out then that puts strain on the wires which come loose), and those were left over from an office build and halfway decent quality, I'm willing to chance it. It is very obvious when they start to pull apart and you toss them or re-terminate them. Actually the biggest issue I have is the damn tab snapping off on ones you use a lot, but by then they're ready for a new end to be crimped on, or just replaced.

Sure if building out a rack and it isn't my dime, only the top of the line stuff gets used, but even my home rack has a mix and match of various brands (many of them no-name) without issues.

Unfortunately all the cheaper cables are basically the same (other than gauge and CAT rating). Doesn't matter if you spend $1 or $10, the bulk wire used to make them is going to be fairly equivalent.

The two possible exceptions I can think of are Cables2Go now that Legrand owns them and Tripp Lite, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they were sourcing their bulk cable and connectors from the same places. I do use tripp lite RJ45 ends and they have been quite reliable.