Why use AiMesh if you can connect APs via Ethernet?

[thiggins]

Why use AiMesh if you can connect APs via Ethernet?

What advantages does AiMesh bring in setting up multiple routers-converted-to-APs if you use Ethernet as backhaul?

 

[OzarkEdge]

What advantages does AiMesh bring in setting up multiple routers-converted-to-APs if you use Ethernet as backhaul?

Are you trolling us?

OE

 

[thiggins]

Are you trolling us?

Seriously, no. What do you see as the advantages?

 

[OzarkEdge]

By my limited experience, I guess I don't understand the question... AiMesh advantages vs. what if using wired AiMesh backhauls?

Edit: Wait... the subject title is helping me...

o AiMesh seems to sit on one band channel while APs may need to be setup on separate channels, increasing the likelihood of channel interference in a high density un-managed residential environment.

o AiMesh offers centralized management/setup and firmware upgrades for the residential user. And may be easier for a novice to use than 'good' APs.

o AiMesh offers roaming controls with a single SSID; APs may still require separate SSIDs or else clients may not roam as well as with Aimesh.

o AiMesh is [supposed to be] easier to sell and for the novice to buy. Mesh systems are actively targeting the consumer market... APs are not and this is likely evident in their cost, availability (marketing), and usability in that market.

Well, I took a stab at it.

OE

 

[Deleted member 22229]

Just my opinion but the only advantage to Aimesh as far a i can tell is it helps Asus make more money. Why sell one router per home when you can sell 2 or 3 per home. On top of it all there firmware is a mess.

 

[thiggins]

What I'm getting at is mesh systems are primarily for people who don't have Ethernet to add APs and/or wouldn't know how to connect and configure them if they did.

For the networking savvy user, why would you bother with AiMesh if you know how to set up a multi-AP system?

I confess I haven't played with AiMesh myself, so I don't know its feature set. But does it automatically assign channels and adjust transmit power to limit overlap and promote quick roaming? Does it band-steer and node-steer STAs to optimize bandwidth?

 

[OzarkEdge]

>>What I'm getting at is mesh systems are primarily for people who don't have Ethernet to add APs and/or wouldn't know how to connect and configure them if they did.

Yep.

>>For the networking savvy user, why would you bother with AiMesh if you know how to set up a multi-AP system?

You shouldn't unless it's a small application and AiMesh works, is familiar, and easily sourced.

>>But does it automatically assign channels and adjust transmit power to limit overlap and promote quick roaming?

Yes, auto wireless mode, channel bandwidth, control channel, and extension channel... I'm not sure if it moderates power to limit overlap. I'd call it better roaming than repeaters... not sure about APs.

>>Does it band-steer and node-steer STAs to optimize bandwidth?

Suppose to... seems to... that is for optimizing the client's bandwidth, not WiFi load sharing across nodes.

Now can we talk about not having to run a cable! This really is appealing to the novice residential user.

OE

 

[thiggins]

Now can we talk about not having to run a cable! This really is appealing to the novice residential user.

Of course. But that's not my question.

 

[sfx2000]

Why use AiMesh if you can connect APs via Ethernet?

What advantages does AiMesh bring in setting up multiple routers-converted-to-APs if you use Ethernet as backhaul?

I'll bite on this one... it works for the most part - it's not really mesh, but it does have the tasty bits...

It really isn't that much different than what Apple had with the 802.11n/11ac Airport's (Extreme/Express/TimeCapsule) - not mesh per se... consider it WDS on steroids and an easier way to configure things within a common interface.

Going back to an Extended Service Set - whether it's mesh, WDS, or proprietary approaches - the backend DS is still set - AIMesh, along with Apple's Extended Network support does make things easier for authentication, routing, and roaming (sans 11k/v/r perhaps).

Cabling up across AP's - always better, and this is what Enterprise class AP's do, with a coordinated WLC, either hosted on the root AP, or on a dedicated machine outside the the ESS/BSS...

AIMesh isn't bad - generally works for most folks - and a good way for some to recover investment without have to do do a whole replacements of the installed WiFi infra for folks running multiple AP's.

Consider that with AIMesh - 2 AC1900 class devices can represent a significant investment - $400USD or higher in many cases - so Asus tosses AIMesh over the fence as a value add - and it's a good value add there.

Obviously there's outliers - legacy gear, OE relationships with carriers (e.g. TM series), and some challenges across chipsets - Blue Cave vs. AC68U perhaps?

It's still a good value add - and kudos to the Asus guys to get this in - it's not in the core SDK's...

 

[HuskyHerder]

o AiMesh seems to sit on one band channel while APs may need to be setup on separate channels, increasing the likelihood of channel interference in a high density un-managed residential environment.

o AiMesh offers centralized management/setup and firmware upgrades for the residential user. And may be easier for a novice to use than 'good' APs.

o AiMesh offers roaming controls with a single SSID; APs may still require separate SSIDs or else clients may not roam as well as with Aimesh.

o AiMesh is [supposed to be] easier to sell and for the novice to buy. Mesh systems are actively targeting the consumer market... APs are not and this is likely evident in their cost, availability (marketing), and usability in that market.

OE

Great Points!

@thiggins

For years I have used AP's, it is nice to go to central management, not for me.. I travel for work and it easier to tell the Mrs to login and do this or that on one router if I am unable to VPN etc. rather than figure out which node and login and make the change, etc. Although that setup does have its good points too.

I also like the fact it's easier for her to manage should something happen to me. We are both getting older, not old but not youg-uns either. My youngest son will be the future network wrangler.

I love the redundancy factor where if the wire goes down it will switch back to wireless mesh.

Same SSID and same channel is a huge plus.

I’ll think on it some more and add to this if anything comes to mind.

 

[thiggins]

Thanks for the replies.

So far, the points in AiMesh's favor are centralized management and automatic configuration, which is a subset of centralized management So what does it do centrally besides automatically configure the routers as APs and set them to the same SSID. Remember, I'm talking about the WIRED backhaul case.

Same SSID is not unique to AiMesh. Same channel is actually a disadvantage many consumer mesh systems share. Normal multi-AP setups use a frequency plan with different APs set to different channels to give each AP its own bandwidth. Enterprises also seldom (never?) run 80 MHz b/w in 5 GHz or 20 MHz in 2.4, to maximize channel use.

Google WiFi and Linksys Velop are the exceptions. Even though they share their 2x2 radios for front and backhaul, they use 5 GHz for backhaul and set 2.4 GHz radios to different channels.

 

[drabisan]

I'll cheap in with my experience.
I've been using for almost 6 years a 68U as router and a Cisco 3500i as AP. Wired connection between.
The space is not huge but I needed to cover both balconies and one device couldn't make it considering I couldn't physically place it in the middle. The place where AP was, used to see 68U at about -72dB. Not bad, but definitely not good for video conference, and I do that a lot!
Unless I reduce the power of 68U but I was running into troubles on a balcony.
This setup had a single drawback - no device would roam to AP! Unless I was turning WiFi off/on or outside on the other balcony.
Last summer I decided I need more than 1G to one of my storages. So I went and bought a GT-AC5300 - price was too good to miss it, even though reviews were not impressive.
About the same time AiMesh came on. I give it a try.
The Good:
- easy to setup and stable, as long as I reboot GT once a week.
- it coexists well with 68U as long as one does Smart Connect between 2 5GHz radiosonde GT. Otherwise 68U will choose the SSID of the second radio and usually that's UNI-II. That's not bad at all if you don't have devices that don't speak UNI-II.
- speed is really good!
- And most of all...it roams! In a second or even better than that! I really don't remember where the setting is, but it does a cut-off for a client that's -70 or lower and that's the sweet spot for me! I do appreciate this every day, when my Ubuntu laptop moves from a place to another with no impact to my VC! WhatsApp calls on mobile do sometimes have a 1/2 second gibberish, but that's acceptable.
The Bad:
- node uses the same channels! On both 2.4 and 5!
- bye bye power related settings. At least when your using Smart Connect.

I really can't understand why they are not allowing manual channel selection for node! I hope it is convenient for basic users and a PM decided this is the market for the product. I would appreciate this option! I do have plenty of interference, not causing big speed issues, but it's there and it pisses me off! I would jndunderst why same channel when backhaul is wireless, that totally makes sense, but when it's wired, it's just PITA.

If I'll be changing the place I would really consider buying a new tri-band Asus router if wireless backhaul would be the only option. I trust this system that much!
And please don't compare it with Google WiFi! That one is not even close to this, performance-wise!

 

[OzarkEdge]

The Bad:
- node uses the same channels! On both 2.4 and 5!
- bye bye power related settings. At least when your using Smart Connect.

I really can't understand why they are not allowing manual channel selection for node! I hope it is convenient for basic users and a PM decided this is the market for the product. I would appreciate this option! I do have plenty of interference, not causing big speed issues, but it's there and it pisses me off! I would jndunderst why same channel when backhaul is wireless, that totally makes sense, but when it's wired, it's just PITA.

Smart Connect is currently configured with a pull-down pick list of just ONE selection, Dual-Band Smart Connect (plus those rules to control it... which most of us don't dare to mess with). Maybe future AiMesh will expand this pick list with options to offer more control over wireless mode, channel bandwidth, control channel, and extension channel. Or is this pick list different on a tri-band build?

OE

 

[sfx2000]

Enterprises also seldom (never?) run 80 MHz b/w in 5 GHz or 20 MHz in 2.4, to maximize channel use.

Most large WiFI networks that have deployed 802.11ac - I see a lot of 40MHz channels in 5GHz, and 20MHz in 2.4...

Capacity seems to be the driver there...

 

[drabisan]

Most large WiFI networks that have deployed 802.11ac - I see a lot of 40MHz channels in 5GHz, and 20MHz in 2.4...

Capacity seems to be the driver there...

I can vouch for this! In enterprise 80MHz or higher is nothing but marketing. It's useful when in an empty space, but in a crowded area, 40MHz is the only option. Even 20 for 5GHz when it's a dense population.
On 2.4...considering the number of channels available, 20 is the only option. That only if 2?4 is needed.

 

[drabisan]

Smart Connect is currently configured with a pull-down pick list of just ONE selection, Dual-Band Smart Connect (plus those rules to control it... which most of us don't dare to mess with). Maybe future AiMesh will expand this pick list with options to offer more control over wireless mode, channel bandwidth, control channel, and extension channel. Or is this pick list different on a tri-band build?

OE

On my GT wireless mode is an option on Smart Connect. I can choose which one should accommodate mixed or AC only.
Nothing else useful unfortunately, at least not in the image published 4 days ago.

 

[chevy lee]

@ Hardwired backhaul connections are essential as the number of nodes increases because all nodes are at a uniform distance from the router and are not at ideal conditions (e.g. without walls).

And I thought, well, it's a web of mutual backbone between nodes, and it's really like a web, but it's not.
In my case, wireless AIMESH is configured with 1+6.
However, when the router was positioned at one end, the further away it was from its base, the less connected the device.(Check with WEBUI)
Finally, Ethernet backhaul should be used properly because communication speed with user will be poor.

 

[RMerlin]

Centralized management is the biggest plus of AiMesh versus APs. This includes syncing of settings, as well as firmware upgrades - you can upgrades all your nodes from the primary node itself. It also allows to have a centralized list of connected clients, rather than having to check each AP separately to determine where a given client is connected, and what are its connection statistics (link rate, quality, etc...).

Eventually, the centralized management is also expected to support guest networks, something that does not work too well using APs (i.e. you can't set up client isolation - unsure if this specific feature will eventually work with AiMesh tho, or just management of the guest network names/passphrases).

 

[Kingp1n]

Centralized management is the biggest plus of AiMesh versus APs. This includes syncing of settings, as well as firmware upgrades - you can upgrades all your nodes from the primary node itself. It also allows to have a centralized list of connected clients, rather than having to check each AP separately to determine where a given client is connected, and what are its connection statistics (link rate, quality, etc...).

Eventually, the centralized management is also expected to support guest networks, something that does not work too well using APs (i.e. you can't set up client isolation - unsure if this specific feature will eventually work with AiMesh tho, or just management of the guest network names/passphrases).

@RMerlin i know you mentioned in the past you may never support aimesh, just wanted to put out there the latest stock FW have done a great job improving this feature. At least on the AC68U, I wld love to see it added to your FW, just hoping thats all. Regardless still using ur awesome FW.

 

[st3v3n]

thiggins; Funny OE; needed a chuckle, if TH is trolling, there are serious boredom issues at stake. Seriously, we haven't had any use for AiMess (er Mesh). Tried it once but it was buggier than the east pasture. extending or AP, is all we've ever needed. It would be an entirely different story if it AiMesh was able to be included in RMerlin's fork. The potential (and technological) disadvantages are there as are pointed out. Cheers.