Wi-Fi Signal Strength RT-AC86U v RT-AX88U

[sturmstar]

It is a also a matter of personal usage if you are "effected" - maybe many users who bought a "machine" like a AX88u primary use the 5GHz band, many others could have an environment where it doesn't matter if the devices which are connected have a rssi of -60dbm compared to -50dbm - both are working... but if you have an environment where exaggerated every single dbm counts - you are definitly effected...

 

[Phil Outram]

@Phil Outram Yes sorry, 4 antennas.

I understand what you're saying about the "reported" link rate. That's why I asked you to test the actual throughput and compare it to L&LD's results.

I'm not denying you have a problem, you obviously do. But if you both do exactly the same tests under the same circumstances and get wildly different results then it's not simply a case of "there's a bug - all AX88U owners are effected". There's no difference AFAIK in the GPL build or WiFi drivers between 384.14 or 384.15 so what's the difference? (rhetorical question)

I'll see if I can do another test later, right now the wife is about to kill me as she wants to watch netflix.

Although I have tested with 2 other AX88U routers at work and both have the same issue, so it's safe to assume its not just unique to my specific router even if not all are effected.

There is a new wifi driver with 384.15 on the AX88U which brings in things like WPA3 and OFDMA, which I believe is ultimately where the problem is. All of which is of course totally in the hands of Asus and rmerlin cannot do anything about it as it is all closed source. I have of course done the obvious, disabled these new features and unfortunately it didn't help either.

To be honest I'm happy to stick with 384.14 for now. I was simply trying to help another member by relaying my findings as they were experiencing issues with the 2.4ghz band as well.

 

[ColinTaylor]

There is a new wifi driver with 384.15 on the AX88U which brings in things like WPA3 and OFDMA, which I believe is ultimately where the problem is. All of which is of course totally in the hands of Asus and rmerlin cannot do anything about it as it is all closed source.

Ah. I didn't see that change. I did look in the change log before posting but somehow missed that (despite it being right in front of me ).

 

[ollimoe]

I'll see if I can do another test later, right now the wife is about to kill me as she wants to watch netflix.

Although I have tested with 2 other AX88U routers at work and both have the same issue, so it's safe to assume its not just unique to my specific router even if not all are effected.

There is a new wifi driver with 384.15 on the AX88U which brings in things like WPA3 and OFDMA, which I believe is ultimately where the problem is. All of which is of course totally in the hands of Asus and rmerlin cannot do anything about it as it is all closed source. I have of course done the obvious, disabled these new features and unfortunately it didn't help either.

To be honest I'm happy to stick with 384.14 for now. I was simply trying to help another member by relaying my findings as they were experiencing issues with the 2.4ghz band as well.

After 8+ days of uptime on 384.15 I just did a downgrade to 384.13 because of the weak 2.4Ghz signal. I've been hovering back and forth, could have gone to 384.14 too but .13 was previously somewhat rock solid. For me it is more than obvious that there was some significant change on the driver side - unfortunately not fot the better - that we'll have to see if/how ASUS intends to fix this ...

What I did recognize with 384.15 was, that more devices connected to 5Ghz than 2.4 Ghz which is now the reverse with .13

 

[Phil Outram]

I've just submitted a report to Asus to see if that helps, lets see what they come back with.

 

[Maghook]

[...] There is a new wifi driver with 384.15 on the AX88U which brings in things like WPA3 and OFDMA, which I believe is ultimately where the problem is. All of which is of course totally in the hands of Asus and rmerlin cannot do anything about it as it is all closed source. I have of course done the obvious, disabled these new features and unfortunately it didn't help either.
[...]

I’ll try the 384.14 build just to be sure if I’ll get better coverage and stronger signal with it.
So far I noticed no real difference between WPA2 or WPA2/WPA3, but after enabling OFDM on the AX88U my 2019 Shield TV pro always loses the 2,4 N connection after a short amount of traffic on it. What the heck, sometimes the Shield even connects to the weaker 5 GHz AC band running the same SSID although I explicitly only enabled the 2,4 option on the Android TV! And in addition to that: my Shield consumes streams fully stable of Twitch&Co. on this weak 5G connection. My Ipad Air 3 ignores the 2G completely. Very strange. Maybe WiFi agile Multiband?

 

[L&LD]

The point I was trying to make is the entire basis of L&LD's theory revolves around being able to connect a device up at 300mbps which wouldn't be possible if only a single antenna transmits the signal. I have just tested again, connecting this time my laptop to the 2.4ghz band, and again with only a single antenna attached to the router on 384.14 I get a connection speed of 300mbps with 2 streams. This proves that the number of antennas transmitting the band does not impact either the connection speed or the number of steams.

Therefore L&LD's theory that the 2.4ghz band must be transmitting the 2.4ghz radio on more than one antenna on the 384.15 firmware because he gets a connection speed of 300mbps and 2 streams is inaccurate because I get the same speeds and streams with only a single antenna attached!

To eliminate any chance I am wrong, I've just flashed back to 384.15 and removed all antennas except for the one closest to switch port 8, and I still get a 300mbps connection with 2 streams. So there you have it.

Jumping back and forth between firmware versions isn't helping anyone narrow down anything. Unless you're actually fully resetting to defaults?

Are you using AX mode with an AX capable client in the 2.4GHz Band in your testing?

I'm using AX mode (not that it matters, see below) with an AC client in mine. Impossible to have 300Mbps connection speeds with a single antennae, from my understanding.

https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html

Again, I'm not doubting what you are seeing, but you are just not giving enough quality information right now.

And, importantly, on my router, the performance is as expected and/or better, in the 'as designed' usage mode.


@sturmstar, I would never be willing to go back to an older version. Particularly not to 'just' test, when the current firmware is obviously superior in my usage/network environment. Sorry.

Note that my RT-AX88U HWvA1.1 (China) router first breathed life with 384.14 Beta 3 with a full M&M Config, and what I am getting out of it now is even better.

 

[sturmstar]

Note that my RT-AX88U HWvA1.1 (China) router first breathed life with 384.14 Beta 3 with a full M&M Config, and what I am getting out of it now is even better.

But this is the really interessting part - "what you getting out is now even better" - I wonder what is your specific use case - I mean, ok - you obviously have no impact but to claim it's even better seems off to me (always talking about the 2,4ghz band...)

 

[Phil Outram]

Jumping back and forth between firmware versions isn't helping anyone narrow down anything. Unless you're actually fully resetting to defaults?

Tested with 2 brand new out of the box routers (as previous stated) and all have the same issue, both factory reset after flashing the firmware.

Are you using AX mode with an AX capable client in the 2.4GHz Band in your testing?

I'm using AX mode (not that it matters, see below) with an AC client in mine. Impossible to have 300Mbps connection speeds with a single antennae, from my understanding.

https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html

https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html

An inaccurate statement, I removed all my antenna except for 1 and still get the max connection speed and 2 streams (as already stated).

Again, I'm not doubting what you are seeing, but you are just not giving enough quality information right now.

And, importantly, on my router, the performance is as expected and/or better, in the 'as designed' usage mode.

I've already explained the problem multiple times now, and it's easy to reproduce, you even reproduced it yourself, what more is there to say? Your entire reasoning behind why I am wrong is that you obtained a 300mbps connection speed on 384.15 and therefore it is not possible for only a single antenna to be transmitting. Yet I have proved this wrong already by removing all my antenna except for 1 and I still get a 300mbps connection speed on the 2.4ghz band.

Anyway it's been reported to Asus so we shall see what they come back with.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

Well, I'm sticking with my new RT-AC86U, having been disappointed with the RT-AX88U (not only was the Wi-Fi signal significantly weaker, especially the 2.4GHz band but I had several issues trying to install the amtm scripts as well). Also, my RT-AC86U looks better on top of my wall unit than the other router and should be easier to keep clean as well. Hmm, now on what can I spend the £130+ I've saved

 

[cc biggs]

Tested with 2 brand new out of the box routers (as previous stated) and all have the same issue, both factory reset after flashing the firmware.


An inaccurate statement, I removed all my antenna except for 1 and still get the max connection speed and 2 streams (as already stated).



I've already explained the problem multiple times now, and it's easy to reproduce, you even reproduced it yourself, what more is there to say? Your entire reasoning behind why I am wrong is that you obtained a 300mbps connection speed on 384.15 and therefore it is not possible for only a single antenna to be transmitting. Yet I have proved this wrong already by removing all my antenna except for 1 and I still get a 300mbps connection speed on the 2.4ghz band.

Anyway it's been reported to Asus so we shall see what they come back with.

I'm with you @Phil Outram. In my test I had my AX88 sitting between (2) laptops (within a foot) and I lost almost half of the signal strength using .15 versus .14. Throughput was ok 1 foot away, but other clients throughout my house could only connect for a short time if at all. M&M didn't make any difference, power cycling didn't make any difference either, disabling 5 didn't help, and trying different combinations within the 2.4 settings did not make a difference either. So this is why I'll stay on .14 til I have time to mess with it some more.

 

[New2This]

I think maybe I'll set each one up with a different firmware and test it out....

 

[cc biggs]

I think maybe I'll set each one up with a different firmware and test it out....

Rock on brother.

 

[ollimoe]

I think maybe I'll set each one up with a different firmware and test it out....

Go for it!!!

 

[Pak Kriss]

For me it's a question of the logic (of the closed source driver) if a new client is assigned to the WiFi interface, how the logic determine and (permanently re-) calculate the RX/TX profile of the new client (this includes antenna ports selection). I'm very sure the @Phil Outram scenario fails since timing is the most critical part for client profile calculation and assigning rx/tx schemes. Best guess: even Asus have limited control over this logic. The chip vendor is in the driver seat. And this guys don't look for phil outram scenario, since the product has fixed antenna positions.

I hope this makes sense what I wrote.

Jumping back and forth between firmware versions isn't helping anyone narrow down anything. Unless you're actually fully resetting to defaults?

Are you using AX mode with an AX capable client in the 2.4GHz Band in your testing?

I'm using AX mode (not that it matters, see below) with an AC client in mine. Impossible to have 300Mbps connection speeds with a single antennae, from my understanding.

https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html

Again, I'm not doubting what you are seeing, but you are just not giving enough quality information right now.

And, importantly, on my router, the performance is as expected and/or better, in the 'as designed' usage mode.


@sturmstar, I would never be willing to go back to an older version. Particularly not to 'just' test, when the current firmware is obviously superior in my usage/network environment. Sorry.

Note that my RT-AX88U HWvA1.1 (China) router first breathed life with 384.14 Beta 3 with a full M&M Config, and what I am getting out of it now is even better.

Sent from my OnePlus 7Pro using Asus RT-AC86U & Merlin 384.13

 

[Pak Kriss]

I would recommend you use the firmware version which works for you.

Tested with 2 brand new out of the box routers (as previous stated) and all have the same issue, both factory reset after flashing the firmware.

https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html

An inaccurate statement, I removed all my antenna except for 1 and still get the max connection speed and 2 streams (as already stated).



I've already explained the problem multiple times now, and it's easy to reproduce, you even reproduced it yourself, what more is there to say? Your entire reasoning behind why I am wrong is that you obtained a 300mbps connection speed on 384.15 and therefore it is not possible for only a single antenna to be transmitting. Yet I have proved this wrong already by removing all my antenna except for 1 and I still get a 300mbps connection speed on the 2.4ghz band.

Anyway it's been reported to Asus so we shall see what they come back with.

Sent from my OnePlus 7Pro using Asus RT-AC86U & Merlin 384.13

 

[Val D.]

I wouldn't be surprised to find with introduction with new technologies one of the antennae doing something more than others in specific frequency range. No wonder removing of this specific antenna breaks the functionality of other things. As mentioned above, testing the router's performance with one antenna removed or with antennae physically located in different places is not of any real value and doesn't indicate something wrong. The wrong part is in modifying the product and expecting it to work as nothing happened. In high frequency circuits placement, shape and size are important.

 

[maxbraketorque]

This discussion went somewhat sideways. I do think the L&LD has a point about his testing method being more applicable to the average person. It could well be that the latest driver used by ASUS does something different than earlier drivers that renders 2.4 GHz inoperable if the antennas are used differently than standard. I have been intending to try the same antenna game on my AC86U that Phil Outram has tried, but no time yet. That aside, it does seem like some people are having issues with 2.4 GHz on the AX88U, but hard to decipher the cause or commonality.

 

[L&LD]

Tested with 2 brand new out of the box routers (as previous stated) and all have the same issue, both factory reset after flashing the firmware.

An inaccurate statement, I removed all my antenna except for 1 and still get the max connection speed and 2 streams (as already stated).

I've already explained the problem multiple times now, and it's easy to reproduce, you even reproduced it yourself, what more is there to say? Your entire reasoning behind why I am wrong is that you obtained a 300mbps connection speed on 384.15 and therefore it is not possible for only a single antenna to be transmitting. Yet I have proved this wrong already by removing all my antenna except for 1 and I still get a 300mbps connection speed on the 2.4ghz band.

Anyway it's been reported to Asus so we shall see what they come back with.

You're providing 'an inaccurate statement'. Why don't you just simply answer the question instead? I've stated my testing procedure, maybe you can do the same?

I did not reproduce anything except seeing that removing an antennae breaks the router (no kidding). A single antennae/stream on the 2.4GHz band cannot give an AC client a 300Mbps connection speed at 40 feet and certainly not obtain over 100Mbps throughput either.

What you've stated is far more than what I can 'prove' with my router, sorry.

But this is the really interessting part - "what you getting out is now even better" - I wonder what is your specific use case - I mean, ok - you obviously have no impact but to claim it's even better seems off to me (always talking about the 2,4ghz band...)

As I've stated, I started with the 'old' drivers in v384.14 Beta 3 and then get better performance with the new drivers included in v384.15_0 release.

I'm with you @Phil Outram. In my test I had my AX88 sitting between (2) laptops (within a foot) and I lost almost half of the signal strength using .15 versus .14. Throughput was ok 1 foot away, but other clients throughout my house could only connect for a short time if at all. M&M didn't make any difference, power cycling didn't make any difference either, disabling 5 didn't help, and trying different combinations within the 2.4 settings did not make a difference either. So this is why I'll stay on .14 til I have time to mess with it some more.

This is an invalid/unreasonable test. WiFi needs a minimum distance to 'form' fully from the antennae, 'within a foot' is at least 10x less than optimal from any router I have tested myself that has also been optimally set up.



I'll state again the conclusions of my testing above. The drivers are obviously using that antennae output to 'sense' and/or 'test' and/or 'configure' what other parameters it should apply for the 2.4GHz band. Putting a 4M 'extension' on the antennae port is not something that the driver expects, nor should it.

I'll also state again that I have no problem believing that others may have issues with the 2.4GHz band with the latest firmware/driver. But with my RT-AX88U, there are only benefits that I see in my normal use.

 

[Val D.]

I have been intending to try the same antenna game on my AC86U

Don't waste your time, most likely you won't see anything unexpected. RT-AC86U is an AC router. As far as I understand, the so called "issue" with RT-AX88U 2.4GHz radio came with ASUS enabling in firmware some AX specific features. You don't have those changes in RT-AC86U firmware.