Wifi Adapter for DIR-855

[Carnagerover]

I bought a D-link DIR-855 today here in the UK and it should be here tomorrow, i also bought a new Laptop. Unfortunately the new Laptop has a Expresscard slot instead of a PCMCIA type connector like my old one.

So i am left with a choice, D-link have the DWA-160 which is a Dual Band N USB device.

OR

DWA-643 which is a 2.4Ghz N Expresscard

I am un-sure what to do really, it would be nice to have the Dual band capability of the USB Device, but i am continually hearing from people that USB Wifi doesnt have the range of PCMCIA/Expresscard adapters.

I know that the built in Laptop wifi is better due to much longer ariel but these are my options.

At the moment in the UK there is only the Netgear dual band usb device and the Dlink one available. I know there is a Linksys Dual band expresscard available in the states but not over here currently.

Will i get better range on the 2.4GHz DWA-643 Express card compared to the USB 2.4Ghz of the DWA-160 ?

Any help would be ideal as i would like to get something sorted a.s.a.p


Thanks

Stu

 

[Carnagerover]

Anyone ?

Just cant make my mind up between the USB or the expresscard, if it wasn't for the Dual band i would get the Expresscard in a heartbeat.

I cant find a review with either the DWA-643 or the DWA-160 though at the moment.

 

[thiggins]

but i am continually hearing from people that USB Wifi doesnt have the range of PCMCIA/Expresscard adapters.

I'd like to know where that comes from. I don't have any data that supports this assertion.

I didn't have good luck with the DWA-160. Ended up using the NETGEAR WNDA3100 for my testing. The Express card uses an Atheros chipset, which would be ok too. Haven't tested it, however.

 

[Carnagerover]

Hi,

When it comes to the USB range, this just seems to be the consensus. I think alot of people tried them back when G was big and were unimpressed for one reason or another.

Everyone I have asked has turned there nose up at the thought of USB, this is why i was asking.

Comments i have seen regarding USB wifi devices;
They are not as portable, take up two USB ports if they are stacked, need line of sight to get a good signal, then even to get a good signal you have to have them placed on there stand causing the portability problem.

I have decided on the DWA-643 until a Expresscard version is released here in the UK. I should be able to stream my HD stuff fine, i really just wanted to have a play around with the 5Ghz as there are 6 other 2.4Ghz wifi networks detected by my Laptop. Thats what you get in the UK though with our mini houses and watered down Wifi.

The USB would take to much of my USB bandwith also if running at 300Mbps as i use most of my USB ports in my Laptop already.

I've just had a quick look on DIR-855 box, haven't had chance to have a go yet, it is revision A2 and comes with the latest firmware 1.11EU though so that is at least refreshing.

Are there plans to do Expresscard, Cardbus, USB style reviews on netbuilder, i couldn't find a review for with the DWA-160 or DWA-643 anywhere on the net. I got most of my opinions of both devices from user comments which can never really be taken without a pinch of salt.

Thanks for the reply

Stu

 

[thiggins]

Many USB adapters come with cables so that they can be moved away from the port. A little Velcro is all it takes to stick them to the back of a notebook screen. At any rate, I wouldn't rule them out.

I don't generally do adapter reviews, as such, but test wireless routers with "matching" cards, i.e. from the same product family.

I may have to do an article comparing USB and CardBus adapters to put this rumor to the test.

 

[Carnagerover]

Hi,

Apologies for the length of the post once i get going there's no stopping me

The article on Cardbus vs USB sounds ideal as there are a lot of confused people out there including me

Update on my current situation;

DIR-855

I am returning the device for two reasons, the first is that it came with a screen defect and scratches all over the OLED display.

Now the more important reason,

I couldn't get the 2.4GHz wireless to go higher than 3MB\s no matter what i did, i tried everything, and for me it has to be the worst 2.4GHz wireless i have had in ages. I followed the instructions from Dlink to the letter, put the router in N only mode, WPA PSK 2 with AES cipher to achieve 300mbps.

I also received the DWA-643 this morning, and this was nearly also going to go back as i thought that the new adapter was causing my speed issues,so i dug out my old Netgear DG834N and tried that with the new adapter. My wireless speeds shot up to 8MB/s. I had a friend come around with a DIR-655 and that also registered the same speeds as the Netgear.

I usually run my wireless with no encription, hiding the SSID and using a network or mac address filter to couter any WPA encryption speed loss and stop unwanted quests, but that made no difference to the DIR-855 at all. I am totally disappointed with the hardware, maybe mine was faulty but it was just shocking.

So what now,

I have ordered a Belkin N1 Vision, I wanted something with Gigabit LAN and excellent wifi, i know i could have gone for the DIR-655 but i really like the look of the Belkin and the review and wireless performance charts swung it for me.

I want this device to tide me over until some good Expresscard dual band adapters and 2nd generation dual band routers come out, as it would seem that to get good 2.4GHz performance we will have to wait a little longer,which is again disappointing for me as i thought the DIR-855 was that solution. The fact is thought that Dual Band adapters or just not prolific over here yet so i makes sense to wait rather than have a Dual Band router with less than average 2.4GHz performance.

I currently have trouble streaming HD content, i dont think that this will change however when i receive the Belkin tomorrow, i tried my friends DIR-655 with the DWA-655 and that had the same trouble as the 855. Also my Netgear DG834N cant seem to do it either.

Although i get 7-8 MBps i must assume that it is some sort of interference causing my problems, there are up to 6 other routers that my WIFI card picks up at any one time so i can only imagine that they conspire to hamper my 2.4GHz performance.

When i am upstairs which is one floor directly up from the router which is located in the living room, i see 4 green bars on the Dlink utility, I have 95% signal strength, 300Mbps connection and i am currently one channel 1.

When i stream HD content though the bars start to change, going down to 1 in some cases and sometimes going red altogether, when this happens my videos start to stutter for a period and then come back. It is strange as when i am not streaming video the bars stay on 4 all the time.

From what i remember though i did return a D-link PCMCIA N adapter some time ago for the very same type problem, however seen as though i have tried 3 routers and 2 different cards i am not inclined to blame the DWA-643 this time.

What makes me question this a little though is the fact that my built in WIFI which is 802.11g can stream most of my HD videos fine, it cant handle the bigger ones but that is to be expected, where as when i play the same ones with the DWA-643 they still stutter at certain points, even when connected solely at 802.11N. The only reason i can think that this is happening is that the DWA-643 can't sustain enough bandwidth for the videos to play properly maybe due to antenna size, this is why is moves around so much on the signal connection bar when streaming. Even though i have a 95% connection at 300Mbps according to the utility.

I could opt to try a different Expresscard but i dont think this is my problem, i know that Belkin does a N Expresscard but from what i have seen on the Belkin it uses a Atheros chipset so i should have good interpolation between the devices anyway.

So basically i will have to wait for some decent 2.4/5GHz equipment to come out in the UK as the Linksys and Dlink for me so far dont seem to have the 2.4GHz legs.


Any advice on any points i have made about my WIFI connection would be most welcome

 

[thiggins]

If you have many in-range networks, they could be causing some of your problems. Set your channel to 1, 6 or 11, choosing whichever channel has the fewest networks on it.

You should be using 20MHz bandwidth mode, not auto or 40MHz mode. That will definitely cause problems with the surrounding networks.

Getting a good solid HD stream with wireless is very difficult, especially in the crowded 2.4GHz band. Try installing Netmeter and run it while you are streaming an HD file that has problems to get an idea of what you need for bandwidth. Do this with an Ethernet connection to find the actual bandwidth requirements.

 

[Carnagerover]

My conclusive findings on my DIR-855,

After trying ever setting from A to Z i am convinced the DIR-855 is not up to the 2.4GHz task, saying that i may have a faulty router so this may not be the same for everyone.

DIR-855 N only mode, 300Mbps 2.4GHz

5MB\s is the most i can get out of the device at a 5 foot range
I can however get 6MB\s by putting the DIR-655 antennas on the DIR-855, it improves my wireless speeds by around 1MB

DIR 655 N only mode 300Mbps 2.4GHz

10MB\s at 5 feet range creeping up to 11MB\s at certain points

I have done 2 days of testing on this device and as much as i want to keep it because of the 5GHz, i dont think i will be able to. I know that when you buy something so cutting edge there are bound to be problems but can 5MB\s really be adding to the 2.4GHz by improving the firmware.

I had considered the Linksys Dual Band WRT610N but that just seems to have a ton of problems with 5GHz and dropping connections.

I have the Belkin N1 Vision sat here now in its Amazon box decided whether to open that and just use that for the foreseeable.

Someone said to try it in a different room as i may have been saturating the bandwidth being so close to the router, so i tried it upstairs directly above the Router which is in my lounge downstairs. These are my results;



You may see that the connection is at 1 bar, that changes when the router is streaming or moving files, it goes back to 4 bars upstairs at 87% signal straight after.

 

[Carnagerover]

Faulty or poor i just don't know

The only thing i can come up with is that all the reviews were done on frimware version 1.10, my router came with 1.11EU on there and the 855 isn't even on the Dlink UK website yet so there is little chance of me getting the 1.10 firmware.

I Would normally run the US firmwares i did that on the DIR-655 but there is a warning on the Dlink US website saying once it has been flashed to 1.11 it cant be flashed back to 1.10.

Maybe that is the key to the back performance ?

Mode Rate (Mbps) Signal (%)
802.11n (2.4GHz) 78 86

That is 1 foot away from the device i had a look when i was changing some settings

 

[thiggins]

I have lost track. But I think you are doing all of these tests with the same adapter?
Also, how are you measuring the bandwidth?

You should be able to get ~20 Mbps from a plain 802.11g card in the same room as the router. Does your laptop have built-in WiFi? If so, what does that give you for speed?

 

[Carnagerover]

Hi,

Yes i have done all the tests so far with the same adapter, the DWA-643.

I am using the information provided by vista when copying a file to determine the speed. The 802.11g works fine and i get around 2.5 / 2.7MB\s with the Laptops on board G.

As i said though i can get around 5MB\s with the DWA-643 when using the DIR-855 but i get 10-11MB\s with the DIR-655, i don't have another adapter to use to try anymore testing.

 

[thiggins]

First, the data Vista provides includes file transfer overhead. So it will be low compared to the throughput data that my tests provide, which have no application protocol overhead.

Second, we need to change bytes/s into bits/sec by multiplying by 8.
So your 11g transfer is ~21 Mbps, 5 MB/s is 40 Mbps, which isn't too bad for the DIR-855, but low for 11n.

10-11 MB/s is 80-88 Mbps, which is normal for 11n.

 

[Carnagerover]

Thanks for the quick reply,

This is a sample of the DIR-855 and DWA-643 performance, i am sat in my lounge around about 7 feet away from the router;



Why doesn't the DIR-855 use the same 2.4Ghz as the DIR-655 as that seems to fly compared to this. I am really struggling now, that sort of performance does not impress when i paid £170.

Why is the 2.4GHz so much weaker on these type of devices ?

 

[thiggins]

Why doesn't the DIR-855 use the same 2.4Ghz as the DIR-655 as that seems to fly compared to this.

What do you mean "use the same 2.4GHz"?

Different products have different performance, particularly draft 802.11n.
The technology (chipsets and firmware) and spec is still changing.
Contrary to what manufacturers would like you to believe, this technology is not fully-baked yet.

If you want something stable, stick with 802.11g.

Why is the 2.4GHz so much weaker on these type of devices ?

So much weaker than what?

 

[Carnagerover]

What do you mean "use the same 2.4GHz"?

I mean why doesn't the DIR-855 use the same 2.4Ghz radio as the DIR-655, I admit i dont fully understand how it works, but i find it hard to believe is that the DIR-855 is a newer product than the DIR -655, yet the 2.4GHz is much slower.

Wouldn't they check this before they release it, and if so why release it when it is clearly slower, i just personally find that strange, but i am sure there is some technical reason for it.

So much weaker than what?

So much weaker than normal N 2.4GHz that you would find on the DIR-655

I am happy with N devices like the DIR-655, that works at 10MB\s and still gets around 7-8Mbps one level up. Compare that to the DIR-855 where i get 1.5MB\s one level up, it just doesn't compare.

 

[thiggins]

As I said, draft 11n is evolving and manufacturers are competing. Everyone is looking for an edge. If you're going to play with products based on draft standards, you need to expect this sort of thing.

The DIR-855 has had a long and difficult birthing. My testing showed that it didn't play well with its "recommended" dual-band adapter.

Return it and be done with it.

 

[Carnagerover]

Hi,

Well i have to be honest and say that i am disappointed as this seemed to be the answer to all my HD streaming problems. But i cant use the 5GHz right now and the 2.4GHz is so poor that i cant really live with it.

From what i have seen the Netgear Dual band offering isn't up to scratch and i was also tempted to get the Linksys wrt610n, but that also to seems to have 5GHz problems, as well as other mentioned in the Netbuilder review.

Looks like i will be opening the Belkin N that is sat in my lounge and having a go on that.

It just seems a shame when you look on all the websites, and they all claim the ability to stream HD, yet they just don't seem to deliver on these promises at the moment.

It looks as though i will have to look into some other way to get HD playback in the bedroom.

Maybe the better solution would be to wait for a cheaper 5GHz Dual Band router, buy that and just use it as an AP for streaming HD video, then leave a really good Draft N 2.4GHz router in place as the main router.

Just out of interest what kind of setup do you run at home if you don't mind me asking.

Also thanks for all the replies, i appreciate the help.

thankyou

 

[thiggins]

The pitching of draft 11n as the solution for HD streaming by consumer networking product manufacturers is optimistic at best. It is very difficult to get flawless streaming over any appreciable distance in either band.
HD Streaming Smackdown: Draft 11n vs. Powerline

As for my setup, I have Ethernet where I need it when the time comes for playing stored HD files. But all my HD comes via satellite TV box connected via HDMI directly to my plasma (yes, I know it's not "true" HD).
I do use the Roku Netflix box. It's not HD, but produces a decent SD DVD picture over my "3 Mbps" (actually 2.8 or so) DSL connection with no hiccups whatsoever.

 

[Carnagerover]

Your setup sounds ideal,

Thanks for the link, its totally weird really as i was just about to write a post saying that i had made my decision, and that was to buy a WNHDEB111, that was uncanny really.

Anyway i plan to use the Belkin N1 as my main router, as well as my main source of 2.4GHz wireless. Once there is a Dual Band Expresscard available in the UK i will buy both without hesitation, and then i will have the HD streaming that i desire. I am only streaming up through one level and i think my big problem is the amount of surrounding networks in my vicinity.

Thanks again

Stu

 

[thiggins]

I had the good fortune to be able to spec the network and install it (except for pulling the cables) since we designed and had our home built within the past 3 years.

The WNHDEB111 was surprisingly good. Not cheap, but it was good.
Surrounding networks can knock down your throughput. But if you go and look through my reviews at the Ixchariot 1 minute throughput plots you see a lot of throughput variation. The big "dropouts" you'll see are due to all the algorithmic magic that goes into MIMO, which is a big part of draft 11n's increased throughput.

Before you buy anything else, have a look at these two articles.
Video Streaming Need To Know: Part 1- Encoding, Bit Rates and Errors
Video Streaming Need To Know: Part 2 - The Real World

Note the difference between the streaming and file play methods. UDP streaming is very sensitive to packet loss, while TCP/IP file play isn't.