WiFi performance Vs cable

[Kuro68k]

Looking at buying a new house and don't really want to start drilling and cutting to install ethernet cable in every room.

It's WiFi a reasonable replacement for hops between rooms? Say from downstairs to an upstairs room, or between upstairs rooms?

I will be transferring files to/from a NAS, and hopefully getting gigabit internet. Current LAN is gigabit and I'm happy with that.

I see some of the 6ghz stuff seems to be fast enough but latency seems very high in the tens of milliseconds.

Am I going to end up with power tools or is this doable?

 

[degrub]

Wired Cat6 will be more reliable, lower latency, and generally faster than wireless. If the cable run distances are reasonable, with quality cable and installation, you should be able to reach 2.5, 5, or possibly 10 Gbit/s ethernet.
IF you have coax RG6 installed strategically and isolated from DOCCIS 3.1 cable internet/tv, you can take advantage of MOCA2.5 or future 3 for at least 2.5 Gbit/s ethernet although MOCA does introduce a few msec of lag per pair of modems.

In short, wired will always end up more reliable and faster than wireless in the long run. No channel interference to be concerned about, wall type and thickness, etc.

Have the builder install , terminate, and certify it for full bandwidth before the walls are closed up. Then you can put 5 Ghz AC or AX access points wherever needed, even room by room if you want.

Don't know what your use case with all devices will really look like nor the construction of your new house.

My house is wood stud wall with gypsum board cover and wood floors.
That being said, i have Gbit fiber to the house ONT, a pair of GOCoax MOCA 2.5 modems for my home run from the ONT to the wiring closet, ISP modem/router, my router (RV325), a point to point star from wiring closet MOCA2 network ( i have coax to every room and no CAT 5E), and 4 RV371 AC access points strategically placed and oriented to cover a ~3200 ft2 two story house on 5 GHz bands only, no 2.4 GHz. i run OTA TV signal across the MOCA network to older TVs as well as use a HDHomeRun box for recording and digital distribution.
That supports two full time remote working, two college students working/gaming at home with nary a hiccup or pause.

So sure, wifi can do a reasonable job and save a little work running cable once the walls are covered. If you have close neighbors, you will see interference on 2.4 GHz but not as likely on 5 Ghz, but it depends on the physical environment..

 

[thiggins]

A lot depends on the size of the rooms and home construction material. If it's concrete or other stone, Wi-Fi isn't going to work. Even with sheetrock, wood stud construction, your requirements are a push.

Achieving > 1 Gbps from a Wi-Fi link generally requires four stream devices. Wi-Fi 6 link rate for two streams tops is 1201 Mbps maximum @ 80 MHz channel bandwidth. This typically yields maximum throughput in the 800 - 900 Mbps range, with very strong signal.

Latency depends on how heavily the airlink is loaded. 5 / 6 GHz latencies can be in the single digit milliseconds if you are only trying to pull low 100's of Mbps. If you fully load the link, latencies will rise to the tens of milliseconds.

 

[Kuro68k]

Thanks, that is a nice summary.

It's probably not a new new house, just new to me. Being in the UK where all houses are stupid and badly made it's not easy to run cables. We don't really do stud walls, for example.

Maybe I'll just have to pay someone to do the install. I was hoping that 5/6GHz would cover me and be relatively free from congestion, but it seems not.

 

[Crimliar]

If you do get someone in to do some cabling, make sure to get more than just one quote!

One option that you'll see in parts of the UK is to run a cable outside at the corner of a window, and then run it around the outside of the house (just like you would for extra satellite TV boxes), either using a cable that is none-too obvious or once tested is then painted! It's a popular option where the houses have been built using local materials, and that material happens to be granite!

 

[Kuro68k]

Yeah you see a lot of houses with cable on the outside here. It normally falls off the clips and starts to sag after a few years! In was thinking about it, maybe if we get air conditioning too because it's becoming needed thanks to global warming.

 

[Crimliar]

Yeah you see a lot of houses with cable on the outside here. It normally falls off the clips and starts to sag after a few years! In was thinking about it, maybe if we get air conditioning too because it's becoming needed thanks to global warming.

You have to use the right clips! drilling a hole and bashing a tiny nail into brick or mortar is NEVER going to work

*edit, because this is getting silly enough already! The idea is to do a neat job that is going to last. On externally run cables I've seen this done with the tiniest drop of PVA, Grip, or the best that I've seen small diameter sheath (insert own joke) such that it holds similar to a rawplug - if you really pull then it can be removed but will otherwise stay in place in the strongest gale! **Living in a UK house with stud internal walls.

 

[BreakingDad]

It's probably not a new new house, just new to me. Being in the UK where all houses are stupid and badly made it's not easy to run cables. We don't really do stud walls, for example.

You mean we used to build houses properly, with proper plaster directly onto brick. Most new builds have internal stud walls and external dot and dab walls.

I know which I'd rather have.

 

[Kuro68k]

You mean we used to build houses properly, with proper plaster directly onto brick. Most new builds have internal stud walls and external dot and dab walls.

I know which I'd rather have.

Generally speaking bricks are an environmental disaster and stud walls at least make it easy to make changes. But the real issue with British houses is that they aren't really "designed" at all. The builders employ architectural engineers whose only concerns are making it as cheap as possible while meeting all the regulations, then tart them up with a few nice fixtures in the show homes. Some I have looked at are so bad you find things like doors that hit each other if you open both of them, or garages too small to put a car in.

The most important thing from their point of view is maximising profit, which means as narrow as possible to reduce the amount of road they have to build. UK houses are the smallest in Europe and even smaller than Japanese homes. Combined with poor layout and usability it's very, very difficult to find a decent home here and that's why I'm keen to avoid modifying it as soon as I get in.

There are also some problems in specific areas, e.g. down on the south coast of Hampshire a lot of buildings are crumbling because of high sand content in the mortar and plaster. Here you literally can't hang a picture, if you put a nail in it falls out, along with a large chunk of plaster. Trying to add network points is going to be extremely messy and require a lot of fixing up afterwards. In fact one popular fix is to just build a stud wall over the existing brick/plaster, especially if it is wallpapered because it's easier and cheaper than trying to fix what is already there.

 

[BreakingDad]

Generally speaking bricks are an environmental disaster and stud walls at least make it easy to make changes. But the real issue with British houses is that they aren't really "designed" at all. The builders employ architectural engineers whose only concerns are making it as cheap as possible while meeting all the regulations, then tart them up with a few nice fixtures in the show homes. Some I have looked at are so bad you find things like doors that hit each other if you open both of them, or garages too small to put a car in.

The most important thing from their point of view is maximising profit, which means as narrow as possible to reduce the amount of road they have to build. UK houses are the smallest in Europe and even smaller than Japanese homes. Combined with poor layout and usability it's very, very difficult to find a decent home here and that's why I'm keen to avoid modifying it as soon as I get in.

There are also some problems in specific areas, e.g. down on the south coast of Hampshire a lot of buildings are crumbling because of high sand content in the mortar and plaster. Here you literally can't hang a picture, if you put a nail in it falls out, along with a large chunk of plaster. Trying to add network points is going to be extremely messy and require a lot of fixing up afterwards. In fact one popular fix is to just build a stud wall over the existing brick/plaster, especially if it is wallpapered because it's easier and cheaper than trying to fix what is already there.

While i'm not sure if this is the place for this discussion, I suppose it is as it's regarding network cabling, I also live in Hampshire but the North, and recognise the solidness of older houses over new ones. I agree new houses are not great I would always go for an older house, which were generally built much better and have bigger rooms.

I would much rather hang a picture / shelf etc into a solid wall with proper plaster, easy with a decent SDS masonary drill and rawl plugs. Fittings onto stud walls are terrible and no where near as solid.

Yes a lot of plasterers would rather hang up a new bit of board rather than replastering or skimming properly. It is perfectly possible to run cables through the joists etc and just chase up to network socket in these older buildings.

Not sure about Japan, from my little knowledge they live in very small apartments all in little rooms on top of each other, even the hotels I have seen seem tiny.

I've watched a few shows about American houses and they seem to be all built of timber and plywood and fall down at the slightest breeze. Yes they maybe easier to wire up or modify but again I prefer my solid 1935 house I know isn't going to fall down. Ask the three little pigs.

Regarding Bricks not being environmentally friendly, I would argue that using so much timber is worse. While Bricks, as in all manufacture produce some CO2 this can be fired by natural gas over other fossil fuels now, they are reusable often, clay is an abundant resource and requires only low level digging, they have a life of 100 years plus, old bricks can be crushed to make new building materials, they are a good insulator and are mold and fungus resistant. That and they look better than modular housing.

Good luck with your cabling.

 

[Kuro68k]

Japanese homes are on average quite a bit larger than UK homes. In big cities there are some small apartments, but even the average size of a city apartment is larger than the UK. It's really a bit of a myth that they all live in tiny homes, and British people don't realize how bad we have it.

In Japan they build homes with a steel frame. There are upsides and downsides. They are very well built and strong (have to be due to frequent earthquakes) and it's easy to add new cabling. They are also much better designed in general.

The issue around here is not so much the type of clips but the fact that whatever you put them into just crumbles away after a while. Even the bricks, something to do with the way they were made in this area apparently. I'm looking to move somewhere better (the water around here is incredibly hard and there is only about 2 bar of pressure!) but most houses are terrible and it's hard to find anything good in our price range. Hence wanting to avoid expensive cable installs. Would ideally like to self build but that's also really expensive.

I was thinking about DIY. Get the floorboards up. Depends were we end up, around here an SDS drill would probably cause most of the plaster to fall off the wall. Then again we might end up in an area without fibre and only sub-100Mbps internet speeds so it all becomes moot. The UK is a bit of a backwater for internet.

 

[Adooni]

harness will be always better than wi-fi. What ever you will do it is better to have cable or fiber compering to wi-fi

 

[BreakingDad]

Japanese homes are on average quite a bit larger than UK homes. In big cities there are some small apartments, but even the average size of a city apartment is larger than the UK. It's really a bit of a myth that they all live in tiny homes, and British people don't realize how bad we have it.

In Japan they build homes with a steel frame. There are upsides and downsides. They are very well built and strong (have to be due to frequent earthquakes) and it's easy to add new cabling. They are also much better designed in general.

The issue around here is not so much the type of clips but the fact that whatever you put them into just crumbles away after a while. Even the bricks, something to do with the way they were made in this area apparently. I'm looking to move somewhere better (the water around here is incredibly hard and there is only about 2 bar of pressure!) but most houses are terrible and it's hard to find anything good in our price range. Hence wanting to avoid expensive cable installs. Would ideally like to self build but that's also really expensive.

I was thinking about DIY. Get the floorboards up. Depends were we end up, around here an SDS drill would probably cause most of the plaster to fall off the wall. Then again we might end up in an area without fibre and only sub-100Mbps internet speeds so it all becomes moot. The UK is a bit of a backwater for internet.

TBH I don't know why they don't wire up all new houses with network cabling, well I do know, it costs them more money.

 

[Kuro68k]

TBH I don't know why they don't wire up all new houses with network cabling, well I do know, it costs them more money.

Yeah, we are starting to see that some have a single network point in the living room where the TV is expected to go. Many living rooms in brand new homes still have a fake fireplace, which tells you a lot about where we are at with 21st century living.

 

[itpp20]

Yeah you see a lot of houses with cable on the outside here. It normally falls off the clips and starts to sag after a few years! In was thinking about it, maybe if we get air conditioning too because it's becoming needed thanks to global warming.

Keep in mind to use stainless-steal conduits outside or mice and rats will have a field day nibbling away at your cat5/6.

 

[Kuro68k]

Keep in mind to use stainless-steal conduits outside or mice and rats will have a field day nibbling away at your cat5/6.

Good tip. I was thinking of doing that anyway, it looks much nicer than having cable clipped on. I might need it anyway for an EV charger.

 

[heysoundude]

Yeah, we are starting to see that some have a single network point in the living room where the TV is expected to go. Many living rooms in brand new homes still have a fake fireplace, which tells you a lot about where we are at with 21st century living.

the 3rd decade of the 21st Century, no less.
mayhaps we might have it figured out by the midpoint...or by the turn of the century at least - that's within a lifetime...but by then we'll be pulling glass rather than copper, as some already are.

 

[Kuro68k]

the 3rd decade of the 21st Century, no less.
mayhaps we might have it figured out by the midpoint...or by the turn of the century at least - that's within a lifetime...but by then we'll be pulling glass rather than copper, as some already are.

I don't know if it's just British houses. They are the smallest in Europe, and usually extremely badly designed. I've noticed that new homes in Japan often have things like coax and ethernet in most rooms.

 

[itpp20]

No disrespect meant but the UK is just a big rock and most stuff is build using the same rock, hence most wires are above ground and you get very solid buildings which last centuries but running cables through it becomes a nightmare.

 

[leerees]

Asus is the best for WiFi mesh systems, I've tried Google, Netgear, Ubiqui and sent them all back. Latency and throughput was the primary reason I settled on Asus.

WiFi 5 will add around 2ms - 3ms, WiFi6 <1ms. If you use a mesh system, the satellites will add around 1ms - 2ms.

Current Asus AX routers will give you 1gbps over WiFi. Depending on the model, others will do more.