Windows 12 Subscription? What the...

[drinkingbird]

Yes, that is one take on it.

But I prefer to see how it actually plays out. Rumors are boring and counterproductive.

My perspective? MS365 is immediately identified as a MS product, while 'office', is not.

Simple is usually closer to the truth. And further strengthens your branding.

And even if it changes in the future, it is not changing now.

Worrying about it won't affect the future outcome one iota.

It may have been coincidence but it was right around the time of the name change to MS that they started offering corporate licenses that included Windows and office (and hosted email if you wanted it). I assumed that was the reason for the change, but pure speculation. Makes sense though, as more and more moves to subscription, fits better to have it fall under a single product name.

 

[L&LD]

It may have not been coincidence, but the important fact is that it is an optional product, today.

 

[Ripshod]

Ubuntu Pro is free for up to 5 machines currently. Has been for all the time I've been using it.

 

[drinkingbird]

Ubuntu Pro is free for up to 5 machines currently. Has been for all the time I've been using it.

Linux has its place, but it just isn't a viable alternative for the vast majority of users. I've been a computer guy for decades and I wouldn't run it as my primary OS. Every time I've toyed with the idea it is just a long process of finding stuff that "kinda works like" software on windows or "may" have most of the features, etc. The fact is, Windows is still the primary thing that most software is being designed for. Even just from a hardware perspective, the drivers frequently do not include a lot of the features, even some NICs that have excellent hardware offloading in windows will consume much more CPU in linux, so then you have to buy a NIC specifically that has good hardware support in Linux (same for Video card, etc etc).

But I have an old laptop with Ubuntu on it and it is very handy for a lot of different tasks. For me it is a secondary OS, and for many "average users" it isn't an option at all.

 

[drinkingbird]

It may have not been coincidence, but the important fact is that it is an optional product, today.

I already pay for MS 365 (actually had a glitch that after paying for 2 years at $40 per year, it gave me another 3 free just by enabling and disabling auto-renew repeatedly). But if they added windows for another $3 to $5 a year or something like that, it might make sense. Though to date, the only windows I ever paid for was 3.1 (and maybe the 3.11 upgrade) and 95. I did pay for DOS 6.0 and the 6.2 and 6.22 "step ups". Since then its always been free, I had MSDN at one job, then Technet for years, then 10 and 11 have been free (and mixed in there were the days of keygens and cracks). Also got various free copies at MS conferences, OEM copies included with PCs, etc. So I'd like to keep that streak going

A ton of sites have popped up selling stolen keys for windows and office ever since they started charging for windows again and made people subscribe to 365. I suspect that would just get even more popular if they change windows to subscription model.

 

[Ripshod]

Linux has its place, but it just isn't a viable alternative for the vast majority of users. I've been a computer guy for decades and I wouldn't run it as my primary OS. Every time I've toyed with the idea it is just a long process of finding stuff that "kinda works like" software on windows or "may" have most of the features, etc. The fact is, Windows is still the primary thing that most software is being designed for. Even just from a hardware perspective, the drivers frequently do not include a lot of the features, even some NICs that have excellent hardware offloading in windows will consume much more CPU in linux, so then you have to buy a NIC specifically that has good hardware support in Linux (same for Video card, etc etc).

But I have an old laptop with Ubuntu on it and it is very handy for a lot of different tasks. For me it is a secondary OS, and for many "average users" it isn't an option at all.

I'm in agreement, both OSes have their place. My response was directly to the "assumption" that ubuntu pro is a paid for service. To the average user it's free.
I run dual boot win11/ubuntu for reasons other than "I just can". At work, in the office windows with office 365 has to be used for documents as OpenOffice messes with document layout. It's okay to edit and print but not save - fine for a one-off document but not for sharing. However, many of the on-site diagnostic tools I use are aimed at Linux. Just the built-in tools seem a lot more powerful (read useful) to me.
Both OSes have their strengths so don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing anything here, just correcting assumptions.

 

[drinkingbird]

I'm in agreement, both OSes have their place. My response was directly to the "assumption" that ubuntu pro is a paid for service. To the average user it's free.
I run dual boot win11/ubuntu for reasons other than "I just can". At work, in the office windows with office 365 has to be used for documents as OpenOffice messes with document layout. It's okay to edit and print but not save - fine for a one-off document but not for sharing. However, many of the on-site diagnostic tools I use are aimed at Linux. Just the built-in tools seem a lot more powerful (read useful) to me.
Both OSes have their strengths so don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing anything here, just correcting assumptions.

Yeah we have a unix jump server which for logging into and switching between multiple routers, running scripts, etc is very useful. But that's all I use it for at work. All our office docs use various proprietary add-ons for identity confirmation, classifying the sensitivity of documents, SharePoint and teams integration, simultaneous editing (which I hate) retention policies and versioning, etc. They won't even open in open office (or on a non company PC) so that isn't even an option.

At home I mostly use that laptop with my lab routers as it is more conducive to multiple sessions and desktops, and it has a lot of stuff built in that you'd need to install and configure on windows (or that just isn't readily available like TCP ping etc).

 

[thiggins]

@AndreiV , @follower No personal attacks or you’ll get a timeout. Use the ignore button or just don’t respond.

@L&LD Same goes for you.

 

[L&LD]

@thiggins, may I respectfully ask you to point out a personal attack from my end in this thread? I'm trying to have a conversation here.

I believe I'm not engaging in that activity at all here. I too, am interested in correcting assumptions on the thread topic, and of course, particularly assumptions about me. I ignored all the personal attacks on me and replied in a civilized manner. I am allowed to defend my posts/myself, correct?

 

[L&LD]

@drinkingbird, I can agree with most of your points, however, MS hasn't forced anyone to use MS365. The option to have a single payment for Office is still available.

 

[cptnoblivious]

I already pay for MS 365 (actually had a glitch that after paying for 2 years at $40 per year, it gave me another 3 free just by enabling and disabling auto-renew repeatedly). But if they added windows for another $3 to $5 a year or something like that, it might make sense. Though to date, the only windows I ever paid for was 3.1 (and maybe the 3.11 upgrade) and 95. I did pay for DOS 6.0 and the 6.2 and 6.22 "step ups". Since then its always been free, I had MSDN at one job, then Technet for years, then 10 and 11 have been free (and mixed in there were the days of keygens and cracks). Also got various free copies at MS conferences, OEM copies included with PCs, etc. So I'd like to keep that streak going

A ton of sites have popped up selling stolen keys for windows and office ever since they started charging for windows again and made people subscribe to 365. I suspect that would just get even more popular if they change windows to subscription model.

You don't need stolen keys: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...-windows-for-customer-after-activation-fails/

As for Linux vs. Windows, millions of kids and young adults are growing up with Chromebooks right now. I've worked for large enterprises that have moved to Chromebooks for non-tech / accounting users with lower demands (i.e. support staff etc).

But it's a curve. Whenever these arguments come up, people naturally pick a side.

If the right is extreme tech skills, and the left is "can't operate an old school flip phone", most people are in the middle. For those of us with experience in systems, being able to switch is greatly dependent on the tech stack of the place we work.

Linux is difficult to run in an enterprise settings when everything is setup for on-prem Windows (AD, Exchange etc), which is becoming less and less prevalent. Bit easier if it's in the cloud with Azure / M365, but not nearly as easy as running the companies "main supported OS". And it's still more work to run for personal use than Windows, in many ways.

Having said that, I've made the switch over the last few years (and I'm an old-school MS guy, systems engineer from the NT days, through Win2k etc).

Whether "you" or "someone" can switch is a combo of not just skill, but work or hobby environment. The support isn't as great as on Windows for many applications, but there are a number of distros that are actually really easy to get started with. Not Ubuntu IMO, but ZorinOS and Linux Mint would be my top choices for someone new starting out.

In the end, people are going to need to pick what they care more about, the pain, cost and potentially lack of privacy of running MS products, or something on the Linux side. And then there are wildcards such as ChromeOS which frankly would do for the majority of users who only do basic web-based tasks, which are a lot of folks on the left side of the above curve. With the expanded OS support recently announced for Chromebooks, maybe it's becoming an even better option.

Just my $0.02.

 

[drinkingbird]

@drinkingbird, I can agree with most of your points, however, MS hasn't forced anyone to use MS365. The option to have a single payment for Office is still available.

Nope, not forcing anything for sure, but certainly pushing it heavily as the main option and gradually making it harder and harder to find the perpetual license options (and reducing the duration of support too). The direction is clear, just a matter of how far they'll take it and how strict they'll get I guess.....

 

[drinkingbird]

You don't need stolen keys: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...-windows-for-customer-after-activation-fails/

The average person is just going to buy the $5 or $10 key they see advertised on facebook, especially when it links through a site like bleepingcomputer, groupon, zdnet, etc and appears "legit". But yes there are and always have been many ways around activation, though it is a lot harder now than it used to be, and often the cracked installs will stop working at some point. I have a feeling if they just bump the price of MS365 up a bit and include windows, most will be fine just paying that.

As for Linux vs. Windows, millions of kids and young adults are growing up with Chromebooks right now. I've worked for large enterprises that have moved to Chromebooks for non-tech / accounting users with lower demands (i.e. support staff etc).

But those kids and people aren't using anything advanced, and ChromeOS is a very dumbed down version of Linux too. Obviously for a large subset of people, especially the ones that do most stuff on their phone and only turn to a computer to type a document or something, Chrome or Linux is a very reasonable alternative and Chromebooks have gained a ton of market share (though still just a fraction). Probably part of the reason Windows has been essentially free for many years now, they want to make sure you're on a system that can accept an MS365 subscription.

As far as data collection, Chrome is likely a far worse offender than MS (though MS is doing their best to catch up).

I remember seeing an animated graphic of OSs over the past 30 years and once windows 95 came into the picture, every version of windows has just dominated the market share with each new major version very quickly taking the #1 spot. So they've done a great job so far, we'll see if anyone is able to crack into that at some point. The phone generation could very well be the ones that make that shift happen.

 

[L&LD]

Nope, not forcing anything for sure, but certainly pushing it heavily as the main option and gradually making it harder and harder to find the perpetual license options (and reducing the duration of support too). The direction is clear, just a matter of how far they'll take it and how strict they'll get I guess.....

I don't see getting the perpetual license version harder and harder to get. Go into any tech store and ask for it. And it's yours for the going price.

 

[drinkingbird]

I don't see getting the perpetual license version harder and harder to get. Go into any tech store and ask for it. And it's yours for the going price.

More referring to via MS website, pretty buried in there typically, especially for home versions, and when you do find it often it is the student version without Outlook etc.. Also I used to be able to get perpetual licenses via the company's Home Use Program for $10 (then it went to $15) now they offer a discount on 365 (which is still more expensive than just buying one of the $40 1 year bundles from newegg).

For the $400 or so you're going to pay in a store, that's definitely going to sway people toward either 365 or illegitimate keys.

Not saying it is gone or even going away, just saying it is harder to find (I mean literally find, on their website, you end up in an Ikea maze of 365 on the way there).

They're not shy about making it clear which way they want you to go.

 

[L&LD]

I don't find that online options are what defines availability.

My first stop is a physical brick-and-mortar store. Always. Never had an issue getting the perpetual version I wanted/needed for myself or my customers.

 

[drinkingbird]

I don't find that online options are what defines availability.

My first stop is a physical brick-and-mortar store. Always. Never had an issue getting the perpetual version I wanted/needed for myself or my customers.

Eh even BestBuy and Staples (the only two places that really have it around here anymore) everything is a card for 365 and somewhere mixed in you may or may not find a card to bring to the register for them to go out back and get you the dusty perpetual box. Personally I can't see paying $440 for office pro (which you can activate twice before it makes you start doing phone activation) when I can get 10 years of 365 (that can be installed on unlimited PCs and active on 5 or 6 at a time) for less that that and it includes 1TB of storage.

Believe me, I'm not a fan of the subscription model, but with many things I use, there is either no option anymore or they've made the perpetual option so expensive and unreasonable, it sort of becomes a no brainer.

 

[L&LD]

I don't buy at big box stores. There are other options.

And many times, you're right, the subscription is the cheaper and more value added option too. Some customers refuse to believe it though!

 

[sfx2000]

And many times, you're right, the subscription is the cheaper and more value added option too. Some customers refuse to believe it though!

As previously mentioned, not a big fan of subscriptions, but at the same time, played well, and tying this to the Microsoft Account...

One could log in to any Windows PC, and get all the features you've paid for - and that would include everything on Windows (Pro/Home), Office (if you've done that), XBox Game Pass, and any media solutions that MS has done over the time...

At the core - Win 12 would be s-mode, much like a chromebook, and only capable of running things from the MS Store...

I know that this sounds a bit dystopian, but I could see this happening - recall that Ballmer was all about monetizing Windows, now that Nadella is in charge, it's all about services...

 

[drinkingbird]

As previously mentioned, not a big fan of subscriptions, but at the same time, played well, and tying this to the Microsoft Account...

One could log in to any Windows PC, and get all the features you've paid for - and that would include everything on Windows (Pro/Home), Office (if you've done that), XBox Game Pass, and any media solutions that MS has done over the time...

At the core - Win 12 would be s-mode, much like a chromebook, and only capable of running things from the MS Store...

I know that this sounds a bit dystopian, but I could see this happening - recall that Ballmer was all about monetizing Windows, now that Nadella is in charge, it's all about services...

My latest work laptop went to something along those lines, it comes brand new sealed from Lenovo but they've pre-registered some identifier in it. When you get to windows setup it detects that it is a managed PC and takes you to a custom login screen, you sign in with work credentials, and it downloads the corporate "wrap" from Azure and does all your permissions etc, even enables the Win Pro features. Installs all the apps I'm entitled to like Visio etc. This is with Windows 10 even. I can then log into any other PC that has this management model and all my account stuff automatically pops up, onedrive populates my desktop and documents, Edge populates my favorites (OK those two things are nothing new), and I can even install Visio or one or the other apps I have special entitlements for and use it on their PC, as long as mine isn't running.

Pretty handy to be honest, no more needing someone to image it then send it, it can be overnighted right from the distributor. We have our own corporate wrap of the MS Store and install approved software from there.

Of course the only disadvantage is they're locked down tight. Even with my admin account I can't install anything that isn't approved, my printer works far better with the old full feature drivers but I have to use HP Smart as that's all they've approved. It has no ability to scan over the network so when I do expense reports have to fire up my personal PC. Nothings perfect I guess.