Wired AP vs Mesh with ethernet backhaul

[jdibber]

I have found many write-ups of wired APs vs wireless Mesh Wifi, but no luck finding comparisons of wired APs vs wired Mesh Wifi systems, e.g. mesh with ethernet backhaul. From what I can tell, most of the APs are small business oriented and highly configurable, whereas the Mesh Wifi seems more consumer friendly, plug and play ready. From a performance standpoint, how similar would these systems be? thanks

 

[cplay]

Wireless backhaul is dependant on the distance between nodes and main router.

If you can get nodes and router within -50db from each other via 5ghz backhaul you could get 2000+ link rate on two AC86u but 2.4 would never be that fast. Good luck also getting them with that signal to one another and then for roaming to work well between nodes.

Anything else will always be slower than using 5e/6 ethernet cable topology between access points running at 1gb speeds.

 

[Klueless]

IMO APs and "mesh" are pretty much the same thing.

You start with a router (or maybe an all-in-one wireless router). Then you need wireless access to a far corner of the house so you buy an AP and run a wire from it to the router. Can't run a wire? Then you connect the AP to the router over WiFi. Now you need WiFi to the garage or back yard pool / patio? Another AP.

And that's all that mesh is. But ... with Klueless-friendly software. If I can wire them then all the better but basically plug 'em in and off you go. The software will help you properly place your mesh nodes (which are just APs), if there's a wire it'll use it, if not it'll use a WiFi radio as the backhaul, it it's tri-band it'll dedicate one radio for the back haul and the other two for clients. If a wire breaks it'll self-heal, if a mesh node breaks it'll self heal. Depending on how many nodes and locations it'll decide whether to "home-run" them to the router or daisy chain them. (Warning, not all mesh systems live up to all expectations : -)

With mesh it's typically a single vendor / kit solution. (Speaking for myself, if I'm not going to hard-wire my nodes I would look for tri-band.)

With APs you can mix and match vendors. At one site I've a simple all-in-one home router augmented with two high end Ruckus APs (how silly is that, each AP was like double the cost of the router ; -)

Speaking for myself, for two nodes (wireless router and a single AP) I'd roll my own. For three (or more) nodes I'd seriously consider mesh.

 

[jdibber]

I ran ethernet to one corner of the house to support a Tivo and a converted Verizon G1100 to an AP (as signal was nonexistent). At the other end of the house, I have a another G1100 connected to the ONT box. I loathe the verizon equipment (they store my Wifi passwords online) and looking to upgrade. With my setup, I want to take advantage of ethernet, either with a router and APs or a mesh kit with wired backhaul capability. I'm also looking at the Asus aimesh. With APs, it seems more complicated, as I will need an AP with ethernet out port for the Tivo, or add a switch at that location. Many APs are ceiling mount and don't have the additional ethernet port. The aimesh seems like a good solution, but I've read more bad reviews than good on how well it works. Most of the wireless mesh reviews don't get into the wired backhaul, plus there not many with it, or have the extra ethernet port that I need. I was hoping to take advantage of roaming/hand off capabilities with the new setup, as well.

I'm leaning towards the AP solution, but was wondering if there is a Wifi mesh kit with ethernet backhaul that gives similar performance without the setup hassle. I don't mind tinkering around my network, but to be honest, I'd rather spend the time fishing.

 

[whsbuss]

I ran ethernet to one corner of the house to support a Tivo and a converted Verizon G1100 to an AP (as signal was nonexistent). At the other end of the house, I have a another G1100 connected to the ONT box. I loathe the verizon equipment (they store my Wifi passwords online) and looking to upgrade. With my setup, I want to take advantage of ethernet, either with a router and APs or a mesh kit with wired backhaul capability. I'm also looking at the Asus aimesh. With APs, it seems more complicated, as I will need an AP with ethernet out port for the Tivo, or add a switch at that location. Many APs are ceiling mount and don't have the additional ethernet port. The aimesh seems like a good solution, but I've read more bad reviews than good on how well it works. Most of the wireless mesh reviews don't get into the wired backhaul, plus there not many with it, or have the extra ethernet port that I need. I was hoping to take advantage of roaming/hand off capabilities with the new setup, as well.

I'm leaning towards the AP solution, but was wondering if there is a Wifi mesh kit with ethernet backhaul that gives similar performance without the setup hassle. I don't mind tinkering around my network, but to be honest, I'd rather spend the time fishing.

I have been using a Gen-2 eero 3-node mesh with ethernet backhaul for over 2 years. Coverage has been outstanding along with great internode speed. I'm looking for a wifi-6 mesh but will wait till there's more data on their performance.

 

[jdibber]

thanks for input

 

[Trip]

@jdibber - No one has really answered you regarding the core differences of consumer mesh vs wire-first APs on wired backhaul, so I'll take a stab at it.

The first set of differences are specific to the wire itself:

1) PoE - Almost all wire-first APs are designed with PoE as the optimal power source, for all the obvious reasons. I don't know of a single consumer mesh product that supports PoE; consumers are more apt to plug-power their nodes I guess, but for anyone wanting the ultimate in discretion or radio placement flexibility, PoE is the way to go.

2) Multi-Gig / LACP - Apart from a low number of AiMesh-compatible Asus all-in-ones with 2.5GbE LAN ports, practically zero consumer mesh systems offer multi-gig backhaul, and none support LACP, although that will probably diminish over time in favor of multi-gig on a single wire. Regardless, neither are really glaring omissions in most home networks, as you don't usually have enough client data per AP to saturate 1Gb, nor do most homes have access switches capable of multi-gig. But the point remains, it's a lot more available in wire-first AP products.

The following differences are irrespective of backhaul method, but are still as important, if not more so. In rough order of importance:

1) Seamless Roaming - In consumer mesh, most implementations of 802.11r/k/v, plus any assisted control plane intelligence (if you can even call it that) is somewhere between completely missing and almost-good -- with the exception of a very few select products, Eero being one of them. Controller-based APs tend to do this better; SMB gear by a fair bit (Omada, Cisco WAP), enterprise-grade gear by a lot (Aruba, Ruckus, etc.).

2) Fronthaul Channel Usage - APs can actually be set to use different, non-overlapping channels for 2.4 and/or 5 Ghz fronthaul (endpoint) broadcasts. No consumer mesh that I'm aware of allows for that (regardless of the backhaul connection method), which limits airspace usability and efficiency, especially when deploying more than two or three AP/nodes.

3) Traffic Control & Management - Just going to group all of these together. Bottom line: if you're at all serious about segmentation, management, AAA and/or policy-based anything, APs are your only option (VLANs, QoS, ACLs, 802.11x/RADIUS, SNMP, etc.).

Beyond that, some comments:

IMO APs and "mesh" are pretty much the same thing. [...] Can't run a wire? Then you connect the AP to the router over WiFi. [...] And that's all that mesh is. But ... with Klueless-friendly software.

I'm glad you added the "but"-with-software, as vanilla repeating between standalone APs is very different than real mesh, especially multi-point, multi-route mesh, which is an entirely higher-order beast.

if [mesh is] tri-band it'll dedicate one radio for the back haul and the other two for clients.

Apology for the pedantism, but not in all cases. Tri-band Eero Pro uses a mix of all radios for fronthaul/backhaul/split-duty depending on RF environment and traffic flow requirements -- one of several reasons why it's by far the best consumer mesh code base out there. And I would expect more products, both consumer and business, to start adopting more real-time radio re-purposing as mesh software standards mature.

With APs you can mix and match vendors.

While technically true if all one cares about is L2-unaware repeating/bridging, I recommended a single controller-based brand/ecosystem, in order to enjoy seamless roaming, central management and uniform scalability -- all things that have become more-or-less synonymous with multi-node wifi these days, and things that I'd argue are worth investing in, especially if you have a blank slate to start with.

Hope that helps to clarify things a bit for you @jdibber.

 

[Klueless]

pedantism

I had to look it up ... you are a most gracious young man (and bring a lot to the party ; -)

 

[jdibber]

Thanks, Trip. informative.