Wireless AP buying advice

[fizikz]

I see I'm not alone in having tried the same SSID and different channel setup. It's not perfect but seems to work well enough, at least so far. I think using different channels is important though as it made a difference in the stability of the signal. I did not realize this, but apparently there are 18 wireless networks around here, most of them weak, but one or two of them are quite strong, occasionally stronger than my own.

Now, after the wireless adapter upgrade, I'm having some problems and wonder if there is a link. In linux (Ubuntu 12.04) the system randomly started freezing. Total lockup, mouse freezes, no keys work, capslock does not toggle the light, ctr-alt-del does not reboot, nothing. I am forced to do a hard shutdown by holding down the power button.

At first I thought this was something related to software or drivers in linux, but now it happened in Windows XP as well (I dual boot). Both OSes were very stable until now.

Could the wireless adapter cause the system to freeze? Is there a known issue with Intel 5100 cards? What can I check to determine whether the wireless adapter is ok or not?

 

[stevech]

The number of or signal strength WiFi SSIDs you can detect isn't important. What is important, if you are on the same channel, + or - 3, of a neighbor who is using a LOT of air time - say, streaming HD or constant heavy downloading.

Usually, this isn't the case. Free WiFi survey software doesn't (bother to) show you the "channel utilization", up to 100%.

Simplification: WiFi is like the old telephone party line . Not an issue if you have no gabby people on your line.

 

[tipstir]

I've been at this too long today everyone going to do WiFi a different way. WiFi can be 100% strong signal and link quality strong as well. It varies per dwelling.

SSID is required. You can use the same SSID on all 802.11g and 802.11n also called a mixed network.

AP#1 802.11G

AP# 802.11N

Use to run it that way but today just run it in the mix as all these routers are mostly designed for. For me WiFi is very strong both signal and link quality. I test enough tablets both downs and up daily. Stream Netflix, Cloud, NAS, Play Store Updates and download. Again better WiFi better results.

Less in connections errors two. Buying WiFi AP or AP Router is fair game. If you get a gem you really don'g have to do much with it except to upgrade the ROM in it with a firmware patch update.

Always good to backup your configuration though. On the Windows 7/8 laptop or desktop for WiFi make sure you clean out the history for SSIDs that you don't use or have saved. This can pile up and just keep the one you use right now.

We shouldn't have too fiddle with your network settings or anything if we can prevent things. Sure hardware can fail or some odd driver for WiFi on the laptop can be a headache, just have to work to get it strengthen out.

 

[Fraoch]

Now, after the wireless adapter upgrade, I'm having some problems and wonder if there is a link. In linux (Ubuntu 12.04) the system randomly started freezing. Total lockup, mouse freezes, no keys work, capslock does not toggle the light, ctr-alt-del does not reboot, nothing. I am forced to do a hard shutdown by holding down the power button.

At first I thought this was something related to software or drivers in linux, but now it happened in Windows XP as well (I dual boot). Both OSes were very stable until now.

Could the wireless adapter cause the system to freeze? Is there a known issue with Intel 5100 cards? What can I check to determine whether the wireless adapter is ok or not?

Do both OSes use different drivers or did you use the same driver for both OSes (in Linux - the Windows driver through ndiswrapper)? If Ubuntu just auto-detected the wireless card and installed its own drivers then both OSes are using different drivers.

If you're using different drivers for each OS then this is some sort of hardware incompatibility with your PC and the wireless card.

If they are using the same driver, it could be buggy.

This is not a long-term solution obviously, but try disabling the wireless adapter and see if the problem goes away. If it does, it's the driver. If it doesn't, it's some sort of incompatibility issue, i.e. the wireless adapter merely being connected is causing issues.

A complete and total freeze of all functions is likely a hardware issue though, caused by some sort of incompatibility. This would be unfortunate as Intel makes some very good equipment, switching to something else would likely be a downgrade.

 

[fizikz]

Fraoch, both OSes use different drivers. In Ubuntu I'm using the iwlwifi drivers from the kernel and not ndiswrapper.

It's quite difficult to know what might solve the problem, since the freezes seem to happen at random, whether within an hour or after a day. Aside from the freezes, I have not observed any problems, and the wireless works just fine.

This Intel 5100AGN is in my Asus G1 laptop, which I upgraded from a 3945ABG. I purchased 2 5100s, and put the second in an Acer Aspire One netbook running Ubuntu. The netbook has never crashed (so far). I also switched the identical cards between the laptop and netbook, and once again, the laptop has crashed but the netbook has not.

Given that both 5100 adapters actually work fine, and that the problem seems to be OS independent, it would seem like it could be some kind of hardware incompatibility with my laptop. I don't see a way of definitively showing this, though.

I may try putting the old 3945 back in, but since it can be quite a while between freezes, it's never clear what worked. It is frustrating, since I did not even change brands with the upgraded wireless adapter, and there is no blacklist/whitelist issue with the Asus BIOS.

 

[Fraoch]

Fraoch, both OSes use different drivers. In Ubuntu I'm using the iwlwifi drivers from the kernel and not ndiswrapper.

It's quite difficult to know what might solve the problem, since the freezes seem to happen at random, whether within an hour or after a day. Aside from the freezes, I have not observed any problems, and the wireless works just fine.

This Intel 5100AGN is in my Asus G1 laptop, which I upgraded from a 3945ABG. I purchased 2 5100s, and put the second in an Acer Aspire One netbook running Ubuntu. The netbook has never crashed (so far). I also switched the identical cards between the laptop and netbook, and once again, the laptop has crashed but the netbook has not.

Given that both 5100 adapters actually work fine, and that the problem seems to be OS independent, it would seem like it could be some kind of hardware incompatibility with my laptop.

Yes, that's what it looks like unfortunately...the worst part is there's not much you can do about it. The laptop looks to be from about 2006 so it's unlikely that ASUS would issue a BIOS update to address this (if it can even be solved through the BIOS, that is).

It would appear the card is still supported by Intel though. You could try contacting their support. Nothing may come of this, they may say it's up to ASUS, but it's worth a try.

 

[fizikz]

I might as well contact Intel for support, but I don't know what they can do considering the wireless is working and the drivers are up to date. I have seen forum posts about freezing systems and the response from Intel has been that they do not support user upgrades as there can be hardware incompatibilities, and that the manufacturer of the laptop should be contacted.

I've sent a support ticket to Asus about the problem and to ask which wireless adapters they support. In the meantime, if anyone knows of wireless adapters which have worked well on an Asus G1, please do let me know.

This issue is pretty confusing, since right now, I've been running my laptop with the 5100 for over a day with no freezes. However, those freezes usually come at the most inopportune moments, and I cannot risk losing work or corrupting files for a 5$ card...

 

[fizikz]

Intel replied to my inquiry by saying they do not support user upgrades, and directed me to contact the manufacturer. Asus replied that they only support the laptop in its original state/configuration, and have no list of supported upgrades. So that's that...

Interestingly and confusingly, I have not had any freezes or crashes with the 5100 in the last 2-3 days, whether in XP or Ubuntu. The wireless has been working just fine, as has the rest of the system. I'm very puzzled, and I would prefer to know the problem and solution, but at long as it's stable, I'm happy.

 

[Fraoch]

Intel replied to my inquiry by saying they do not support user upgrades, and directed me to contact the manufacturer. Asus replied that they only support the laptop in its original state/configuration, and have no list of supported upgrades. So that's that...

Figures...but it was worth a try.

Interestingly and confusingly, I have not had any freezes or crashes with the 5100 in the last 2-3 days, whether in XP or Ubuntu. The wireless has been working just fine, as has the rest of the system. I'm very puzzled, and I would prefer to know the problem and solution, but at long as it's stable, I'm happy.

Well let's hope your luck holds. If you do get more problems, Intel has a full-fledged wireless connection program (as opposed to the bare driver) that provides access to all the settings of the card. There are some very arcane settings you may want to alter and see if it helps. It solved an issue I was having with my Intel 5300 - I unchecked the "allow computer to turn off this device to save power" setting and it stopped the wireless seizing up if I left the laptop alone for more than 30 seconds...

It's called "Intel PROSet/Wireless".

 

[fizikz]

Well let's hope your luck holds. If you do get more problems, Intel has a full-fledged wireless connection program (as opposed to the bare driver) that provides access to all the settings of the card. There are some very arcane settings you may want to alter and see if it helps. It solved an issue I was having with my Intel 5300 - I unchecked the "allow computer to turn off this device to save power" setting and it stopped the wireless seizing up if I left the laptop alone for more than 30 seconds...

It's called "Intel PROSet/Wireless".

Isn't that for Windows only? Wouldn't the changes only be applied in Windows? I saw the setting you mentioned in the Windows Device Manager properties dialog box for the wireless adapter, but I didn't change anything since it's working fine right now.

 

[Fraoch]

Isn't that for Windows only? Wouldn't the changes only be applied in Windows? I saw the setting you mentioned in the Windows Device Manager properties dialog box for the wireless adapter, but I didn't change anything since it's working fine right now.

Oh yeah, I forgot, and I'm a Linux guy!

If problems do crop up again you may want to try some of the settings in this software in Windows, and in Ubuntu you may want to download Intel's driver here. It may provide access to all the settings - Intel does actually have very good Linux support. Plus it's newer than the driver built into Ubuntu unless you're using the newest 13.04 - the build date on the driver is 1/9/2013.

 

[fizikz]

Have you actually downloaded wireless drivers from Intel? I thought they're built into the kernel. Swapping adapters was totally seamless in linux, and easier than in Windows. Upon booting after the hardware switch, the correct driver modules were loaded, requiring no intervention on my part.

My main system is running Ubuntu 12.04, which uses version 3.2 of the linux kernel, while my more experimental testing system is on Ubuntu 13.04 with the 3.8 kernel.

 

[Fraoch]

Have you actually downloaded wireless drivers from Intel? I thought they're built into the kernel.

I haven't downloaded the drivers as I don't run Ubuntu on my laptop. Yes they are built into the kernel but with the build date listed as January 2013 the ones on the Intel site are probably newer, at least for Ubuntu 12.04 but maybe even for 13.04 as well.

 

[fizikz]

I might have missed it, but I did not see any download downloads available.

One hiccup I've enountered is that the Ubuntu 13.04 system (Acer Aspire One 110) is not seeing the SSID on the 5Ghz band, while the Ubuntu 12.04 system (Asus G1) sees it and connects just fine. Both are of course using the Intel 5100 adapter. The

 

[Fraoch]

I might have missed it, but I did not see any download downloads available.

Yes, actually it looks like if you have the current "iwlwifi" package and the current "linux-firmware" package you have the current driver.

Looks like the latest firmware is at http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/iwlwifi but it looks like you have to compile it yourself into a custom kernel.

 

[fizikz]

Yes, actually it looks like if you have the current "iwlwifi" package and the current "linux-firmware" package you have the current driver.

Looks like the latest firmware is at http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/iwlwifi but it looks like you have to compile it yourself into a custom kernel.

I looked in /lib/firmware and I seem to have a more recent firmware than the files hosted there. In any case, Ifor ease of use and maintenance would not want to be compiling custom kernels on most systems.

One further observation is that in Ubuntu, the link rates reported are the maximum values for single stream, while the adapter and router are actually dual stream, at least in the download direction. Have you noticed this on your systems? In Windows I see the correct link rates for dual stream.

This table has a convenient list of the link rates for different scenarios: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009#Comparison

 

[Fraoch]

One further observation is that in Ubuntu, the link rates reported are the maximum values for single stream, while the adapter and router are actually dual stream, at least in the download direction. Have you noticed this on your systems? In Windows I see the correct link rates for dual stream.

Unfortunately my Linux system is wired so I don't use wireless drivers there.

 

[fizikz]

Unfortunately my Linux system is wired so I don't use wireless drivers there.

Ok, thanks anyways.

Now, unfortunately, after several days of stability, I've had a series of crashes again. I have no idea why, or where to look for causes.

 

[Fraoch]

Now, unfortunately, after several days of stability, I've had a series of crashes again. I have no idea why, or where to look for causes.

It really sounds like some sort of physical (electrical/hardware) incompatibility of the card to function in that laptop as it applies to two OSes using different drivers.

 

[fizikz]

It really sounds like some sort of physical (electrical/hardware) incompatibility of the card to function in that laptop as it applies to two OSes using different drivers.

I'm hoping this is not the case, but hope is not usually useful in troubleshooting. I will get the opportunity to borrow an Intel 6200 for a few days, so I'll give that a try. I will also have to make myself a half-mini to full-mini pci-e adapter.

I had originally thought that getting the older 5100 would be better for compatibility with my older laptop.

I wonder how many cards I have to try to find one that works well...