With WPA3 some clients drop after exactly 12h (GT-AX6000 - do not think it is router specific)

[MDM]

I have one issue now that I have a router with AX/WPA3 capabilities, and I am practically Certain it is not FW or even router fault/related and instead just the client fault, but stil may be useful to post and discuss about it here...

Two of my phones POCO F3 (AX capable with MIUI 14/Android 13) and POCO X3 Pro (only AC but still WPA3 capable with MIUI 13/Android 12) if WPA3 or WPA2-WPA3 are selected in the router, drop and reconnect (sometimes the F3 does not for cca 30min) after exactly 12h - 43200 sec.
Since new WiFi router drivers did not help (had no high hopes it would ), I am not expecting to be able to do anything with the phones stupid WiFi drivers...
I have tried changing just in case if it would help, one by one all the WiFi setting the router has - no luck.

They are stable (no disconnection) with only WPA2 set in router though.


Does anyone have similar issues with a device (phone or other) with WPA3??

 

[ColinTaylor]

43200 seconds would exactly match the DHCP lease renewal time if you have it set on the default (86400 seconds). Coincidence? Try changing the DHCP lease duration to something else and see if the problem occurs at 50% of the new duration.

 

[bbunge]

Also, turn off random MAC on the phones. Renewing the DHCP lease may trigger a MAC address change on the phones. Shouldn't do that but it might...

 

[MDM]

43200 seconds would exactly match the DHCP lease renewal time if you have it set on the default (86400 seconds). Coincidence? Try changing the DHCP lease duration to something else and see if the problem occurs at 50% of the new duration.

Forgot to write it; No DHCP, static IP, and DHCP reservation on router (just in case)
Was before just on LAN reservation (all with nice custom icons, and IP adresses in the right order on a reserved pool part - OCP ), but for the sake of taking out the DHCP out of the equation (Yes, 12h made instantly think it was a IP renewal request from the phones - but then again why no such issues on WPA2?? ) I made it static (manual settings), and even have first tried the max lease of 7 days.

 

[MDM]

Also, turn off random MAC on the phones. Renewing the DHCP lease may trigger a MAC address change on the phones. Shouldn't do that but it might...

Turned off on all devices for home network (needed for the above)

 

[bbunge]

Turned off on all devices for home network (needed for the above)

Might be a good idea to dump the static IP addresses and the DHCP reservations, too. I've observed that the LAN client IP address on Asus routers seldom changes with just DHCP. I've had a Canon printer on three Asus routers and it gets the same IP address all the time. If you do not have a security reason for using WPA2/WPA3-Personal, just use WPA2-Personal. With mixed N, AC and AX (oh, forgot about the old G cam) I've learned that sticking with WPA2-Personal gives me fewer problems.

 

[MDM]

Might be a good idea to dump the static IP addresses and the DHCP reservations, too. I've observed that the LAN client IP address on Asus routers seldom changes with just DHCP. I've had a Canon printer on three Asus routers and it gets the same IP address all the time. If you do not have a security reason for using WPA2/WPA3-Personal, just use WPA2-Personal. With mixed N, AC and AX (oh, forgot about the old G cam) I've learned that sticking with WPA2-Personal gives me fewer problems.

I did also try to disable the the DHCP Server, same thing...
BTW it is normal for the router to remember and reassign the same IP to a bound MAC device, and not just ASUS routers.

Like I said, it most certainly is the MIUI - Xiaomi (POCO) WiFi drivers fault, OR the Android in general. Probably a wpa_supplicant version client issue (found the clue here and here).
No other device has acted as so: LG TV (AC but only WPA2), LapTop with Intel AX210 etc. That is why I wondered if someone noticed it with another brad phone on Android.

Well if I can use a more secure method, why not to use it and benefit from it (live in a densely populated buildings area with hundreds of neighbors seeing my network, and + on the street).
But at this point, while I have those phones and they do not fix the bizarre WPA3 behavior (small chance there ), I am back to WPA2 .

 

[drinkingbird]

I did also try to disable the the DHCP Server, same thing...
BTW it is normal for the router to remember and reassign the same IP to a bound MAC device, and not just ASUS routers.

Like I said, it most certainly is the MIUI - Xiaomi (POCO) WiFi drivers fault, OR the Android in general. Probably a wpa_supplicant version client issue (found the clue here and here).
No other device has acted as so: LG TV (AC but only WPA2), LapTop with Intel AX210 etc. That is why I wondered if someone noticed it with another brad phone on Android.

Well if I can use a more secure method, why not to use it and benefit from it (live in a densely populated buildings area with hundreds of neighbors seeing my network, and + on the street).
But at this point, while I have those phones and they do not fix the bizarre WPA3 behavior (small chance there ), I am back to WPA2 .

The router/DHCP server doesn't remember anything. Client requests the same IP in the renewal request and if it is in the scope and not in use, DHCP server will give it the IP. Release your IP, reboot the router, renew IP, you will get a different one (unless your leases persist router reboot like mine due to being on JFFS).

 

[ZANGIEF]

The same problem occurs with RT-AX86U.
RT-AX86S used in media bridge reconnects 12 hours after connection.
This does not occur on other devices.

I have tried multiple FWs, such as setting the DHCP lease time to 2 days, fixing the IP of the RT-AX86S, but the problem was not fixed.

I addressed the issue by using cron and a script to restart the RT-AX86S Wi-Fi during unused hours.
Since this is a process on the child device side, it does not affect other devices.

This is the first time I've learned that WPA2 does not cause problems.
I am not particular about WPA3, so I may change the way I handle this.

 

[drinkingbird]

I have one issue now that I have a router with AX/WPA3 capabilities, and I am practically Certain it is not FW or even router fault/related and instead just the client fault, but stil may be useful to post and discuss about it here...

Two of my phones POCO F3 (AX capable with MIUI 14/Android 13) and POCO X3 Pro (only AC but still WPA3 capable with MIUI 13/Android 12) if WPA3 or WPA2-WPA3 are selected in the router, drop and reconnect (sometimes the F3 does not for cca 30min) after exactly 12h - 43200 sec.
Since new WiFi router drivers did not help (had no high hopes it would ), I am not expecting to be able to do anything with the phones stupid WiFi drivers...
I have tried changing just in case if it would help, one by one all the WiFi setting the router has - no luck.

They are stable (no disconnection) with only WPA2 set in router though.


Does anyone have similar issues with a device (phone or other) with WPA3??

Did a google search and there are similar complaints on Ruckus and Fritz!Box. I know there have been issues with WPA2+WPA3 mixed which forces PMF on which some WPA2 devices don't like. Is it all devices having issues or just ones connected at WPA2 or WPA3? If all your devices happen to support 3, then switch to WPA3 mode only (or if you're already on that, try WPA2+WPA3 mixed)

 

[MDM]

The router/DHCP server doesn't remember anything. Client requests the same IP in the renewal request and if it is in the scope and not in use, DHCP server will give it the IP. Release your IP, reboot the router, renew IP, you will get a different one (unless your leases persist router reboot like mine due to being on JFFS).

Ah yes, the client remember, not the router, my bad.

 

[MDM]

The same problem occurs with RT-AX86U.
RT-AX86S used in media bridge reconnects 12 hours after connection.
This does not occur on other devices.

I have tried multiple FWs, such as setting the DHCP lease time to 2 days, fixing the IP of the RT-AX86S, but the problem was not fixed.

I addressed the issue by using cron and a script to restart the RT-AX86S Wi-Fi during unused hours.
Since this is a process on the child device side, it does not affect other devices.

This is the first time I've learned that WPA2 does not cause problems.
I am not particular about WPA3, so I may change the way I handle this.

Easy to try!

 

[MDM]

Did a google search and there are similar complaints on Ruckus and Fritz!Box. I know there have been issues with WPA2+WPA3 mixed which forces PMF on which some WPA2 devices don't like. Is it all devices having issues or just ones connected at WPA2 or WPA3? If all your devices happen to support 3, then switch to WPA3 mode only (or if you're already on that, try WPA2+WPA3 mixed)

You did not read all my posts carefully it seams.

My link is about Ruckus too, but the point is it was client side fault same as for me (mixed mode or not). I said in first post witch 2 phones do dat, and I meant only they do.
Tried all of that, mixed or just WPA3 same thing. And I said it in my last post that LG TV is WPA2 only (and some others).

 

[MDM]

Newer thought I'd say this, but Now I get the point of a 3-band+ router...
Could just have one 5G for WPA3, and the second 5G for the WPA2 lovers...

Well next (WiFi 7) will probably be multi band anyway...

 

[sfx2000]

Two of my phones POCO F3 (AX capable with MIUI 14/Android 13) and POCO X3 Pro (only AC but still WPA3 capable with MIUI 13/Android 12) if WPA3 or WPA2-WPA3 are selected in the router, drop and reconnect (sometimes the F3 does not for cca 30min) after exactly 12h - 43200 sec.

What do you see in the router's syslog?

 

[MDM]

What do you see in the router's syslog?

Just the usual device leaving disconnect, nothing strange before or after that. (And eventually reconnect)

That's what helped blaming the device instantly, and I was right, (could be the router stil, but after all I tried, it clearly isn't) since it is only the 2 POCO phones that do that and on WPA 3 only.
Since the laptop AX210 is rock stable (WPA3 and 2x2 100/160 - full 2.400 mbps) no mater what I do at the router...

 

[drinkingbird]

Newer thought I'd say this, but Now I get the point of a 3-band+ router...
Could just have one 5G for WPA3, and the second 5G for the WPA2 lovers...

Well next (WiFi 7) will probably be multi band anyway...

Which would really be no more secure than WPA2. Technically what you're running now isn't really any more secure, if they can hack your WPA2 (relatively easy) they can snoop most of your network traffic even if some devices are running WPA3.

WPA2/WPA3 mixed mode is just meant to allow a period of migration. It is not really any more secure than WPA2 until you totally get off of WPA2. Yeah it adds some benefits and PMF but if it is causing issues and hassle, is it really worth it? There isn't much point running it long term, its basically there to allow you to go around and update devices then disable WPA2 when complete.

 

[drinkingbird]

Just the usual device leaving disconnect, nothing strange before or after that. (And eventually reconnect)

That's what helped blaming the device instantly, and I was right, (could be the router stil, but after all I tried, it clearly isn't) since it is only the 2 POCO phones that do that and on WPA 3 only.
Since the laptop AX210 is rock stable (WPA3 and 2x2 100/160 - full 2.400 mbps) no mater what I do at the router...

Yeah I guess I didn't read thoroughly enough, if it is two of the same brand (and possibly model?) devices having the issue and nothing else, you've already got your smoking gun.

It is a new technology, even some Samsungs had/have issues with it. May just have to give it some time to mature. If those devices allow it, set them to use WPA2. If they still have the issue (and it is critical) may have to drop back to WPA2 on the router, who knows whether it is WPA3 the phones are having issues with or PMF.

 

[MDM]

I know even WPA3 isn't a miracle security solution, has a weakness since conception but still...

Read 1 post again ; two models, work normally with WPA2.
Didn't dig deep enough to know which part of their WPA3 implementation is the culprit; too little info anyway, and no real (simple) access to driver. Now to use Wireshark etc., no point since I can't fix it myself


From start I know it is the devices, no much doubt there (oh yes I am an IT service guy - mainly software), so just wanted to share my experience and findings here; and mainly also to hear if someone else has similar issues (and to maybe report it to the manufacturer/Android with this tread in attachment).

 

[MDM]

Really, no one else is having issue with any client drop at 12h on WPA3 similar to me..?
Except ZANGIEF above, but that is another router not really a client (still similar)...