XG1v4 DVR / XG2v2 STB and Moca 2.0 home network setup advice

[Michael Nunes]

Due to some personal reasons I currently have internet service from both XFINITY and ATT (gigabit fiber). I also subscribe to XFINITY’s X1 platform for cable tv service. My wired (networks) are setup as follows...

XFINITY
Coax comes in through the attic and is terminated with a moca filter and then plugged into a PPC EVO 1-9-U/U “0 gain powered amplifier.” From there all but 3 of the taps (unused taps have 75ohm loads on them) have single RG6 runs to their respective coax outlets. There is one BAMF 2-way 5-2300mhz (3.5db of loss) in use where I’m putting the first moca adapter setup as follows.. coax > splitter > Xfinity modem (XB6)|moca adapter > XG1v4 DVR. The moca adapter is plugged in via cat6 to the back of my att gateway in order to provide internet via the att fiber to the moca adapter upstairs. Moca is turned OFF on the Xfinity modem. Also in use are two Xfinity XG2v2 set top boxes that allow playback of content from the XG1v4. The second moca adapter is plugged in upstairs where one of the XG2v2 is in use and setup as follows... coax > moca adapter > XG2v2.

ATT
The specifics of the ATT side of everything doesn’t really apply, but if you need to know anything just ask.

Alright with that out of the way, let me explain what I’m frustrated with and still trying to figure out. First off, the moca adapters I’m currently using are the Motorola MM1000 bonded 2.0 adapters. I also have two GOCOAX 2.5 adapters coming. When I got the motorolas last night I simply plugged them in as described above and got a connection, but it was flaky. Out of 100 pings, about 20% were lost across the link. The speed when working was nowhere close to gigabit. To say I was underwhelmed was an understatement. So I followed the manual and went to the configuration page on each adapter to see what I was working with and how I could improve things. The first thing I checked was the node info page and I noted that both adapters were joining a moca network that was already in place via one of the X1 boxes and the node from the X1 box was considered the node controller. Also all the phy rates I saw were all around 600mbps. The RF channel and band noted on the motorolas was 1150, band d extended.

For the next 3-4 hours I tried playing around with all the various options constantly going upstairs/downstairs turning the adapters on and off... it got to be too much to be honest. Anyhow, here are some things I noted...

1) No matter how many times I tried to enable security, the adapters would never save the information.
2) When the adapters were on frequency 1150 and the X1 box ended up being node controller the quality of the link was unusable in terms of reliability and speed.
3) At one point I was able to get both adapters on frequency 1400 band d hi and the quality of the link was stable, but it didn’t approach gigabit in performance at all, it was closer to 300mbps. At the same time it was noted that the phy rate of both adapters was ~600mbps when this link was working.

I started down this moca road in order to extend my gigabit att fiber to a rj45 upstairs so I could plug a ubiquiti wireless AP upstairs and get better WiFi signal to a few devices. Performance of 300mbps across a WIRED link isn’t worth it to me. I can get better performance via mesh on the ubiquiti gear. I’m unsure where to go from here and I’m incredibly frustrated with these Motorola adapters and their configuration page. The page is so hit or miss on every aspect of setting up the adapters to make things reliable it just makes you want to package them up and return them.

Can anyone give me any advice on how to try to get these adapters working in my network? Just to be preemptive let me say.. getting rid of x1 tv service/dvr is not an option and neither is running any new cable.

Thanks for the help and sorry about the long winded post.

 

[kpeters59]

Did you know that you could get a HPNP Adapter that will work with the uVerse stuff?

-KP

 

[Michael Nunes]

Did you know that you could get a HPNP Adapter that will work with the uVerse stuff?

-KP

No, never even looked into it. I’m guessing that would open up a whole other can of worms. What adapter do you have in mind?

 

[Samir]

I've had dual internet setups before so there's a couple of things that could be going on in addition to the wiring, but let's start with the wiring.

In the room where the AT&T is, do you need to use the coax for any cable functions? If not, the solution is actually super simple--connect the motorola in that room and then in the attic, disconnect that particular coax feeding that room and connect the other motorola to that cable. This way, you have nothing on that cable except the motorolas and you should hit 1Gb no problem.

Now, if you're connecting both xfinity and att to the same lan, there may be dual dhcp server issues unless xfinity is not using one, and that can also be an issue, but would appear as stuff working 100% and then just not working at all. Hope this helps!

 

[Michael Nunes]

Both networks are completely separate. The only way you can say they may be intertwined is by virtue of the lan of the ATT network existing over top the same coax as xfinity’s X1 moca network. Xfinity’s Internet is completely separate all together.

Also, it would never be possible to isolate the Motorola moca adapters from the Xfinity moca network. In both places where the adapters need to go there are multiple xfinity devices connecting to the same coax.

I've had dual internet setups before so there's a couple of things that could be going on in addition to the wiring, but let's start with the wiring.

In the room where the AT&T is, do you need to use the coax for any cable functions? If not, the solution is actually super simple--connect the motorola in that room and then in the attic, disconnect that particular coax feeding that room and connect the other motorola to that cable. This way, you have nothing on that cable except the motorolas and you should hit 1Gb no problem.

Now, if you're connecting both xfinity and att to the same lan, there may be dual dhcp server issues unless xfinity is not using one, and that can also be an issue, but would appear as stuff working 100% and then just not working at all. Hope this helps!

 

[degrub]

How did you do your speed test to get the 300mbit/sec result ?
Were the two modems indicating "bonded" ?
i think this uses two channels.

 

[Michael Nunes]

How did you do your speed test to get the 300mbit/sec result ?
Were the two modems indicating "bonded" ?
i think this uses two channels.

Ookla speedtest plus others. They were all the same.

Also, like I mentioned the adapters configuration page isn’t very friendly and I don’t remember if giving any indication as to whether it was 2.0 bonded or not.

 

[Jumpstarter]

Due to some personal reasons I currently have internet service from both XFINITY and ATT (gigabit fiber). I also subscribe to XFINITY’s X1 platform for cable tv service. My wired (networks) are setup as follows...

XFINITY
Coax comes in through the attic and is terminated with a moca filter and then plugged into a PPC EVO 1-9-U/U “0 gain powered amplifier.” From there all but 3 of the taps (unused taps have 75ohm loads on them) have single RG6 runs to their respective coax outlets. There is one BAMF 2-way 5-2300mhz (3.5db of loss) in use where I’m putting the first moca adapter setup as follows.. coax > splitter > Xfinity modem (XB6)|moca adapter > XG1v4 DVR. The moca adapter is plugged in via cat6 to the back of my att gateway in order to provide internet via the att fiber to the moca adapter upstairs. Moca is turned OFF on the Xfinity modem. Also in use are two Xfinity XG2v2 set top boxes that allow playback of content from the XG1v4. The second moca adapter is plugged in upstairs where one of the XG2v2 is in use and setup as follows... coax > moca adapter > XG2v2.

ATT
The specifics of the ATT side of everything doesn’t really apply, but if you need to know anything just ask.

Alright with that out of the way, let me explain what I’m frustrated with and still trying to figure out. First off, the moca adapters I’m currently using are the Motorola MM1000 bonded 2.0 adapters. I also have two GOCOAX 2.5 adapters coming. When I got the motorolas last night I simply plugged them in as described above and got a connection, but it was flaky. Out of 100 pings, about 20% were lost across the link. The speed when working was nowhere close to gigabit. To say I was underwhelmed was an understatement. So I followed the manual and went to the configuration page on each adapter to see what I was working with and how I could improve things. The first thing I checked was the node info page and I noted that both adapters were joining a moca network that was already in place via one of the X1 boxes and the node from the X1 box was considered the node controller. Also all the phy rates I saw were all around 600mbps. The RF channel and band noted on the motorolas was 1150, band d extended.

For the next 3-4 hours I tried playing around with all the various options constantly going upstairs/downstairs turning the adapters on and off... it got to be too much to be honest. Anyhow, here are some things I noted...

1) No matter how many times I tried to enable security, the adapters would never save the information.
2) When the adapters were on frequency 1150 and the X1 box ended up being node controller the quality of the link was unusable in terms of reliability and speed.
3) At one point I was able to get both adapters on frequency 1400 band d hi and the quality of the link was stable, but it didn’t approach gigabit in performance at all, it was closer to 300mbps. At the same time it was noted that the phy rate of both adapters was ~600mbps when this link was working.

I started down this moca road in order to extend my gigabit att fiber to a rj45 upstairs so I could plug a ubiquiti wireless AP upstairs and get better WiFi signal to a few devices. Performance of 300mbps across a WIRED link isn’t worth it to me. I can get better performance via mesh on the ubiquiti gear. I’m unsure where to go from here and I’m incredibly frustrated with these Motorola adapters and their configuration page. The page is so hit or miss on every aspect of setting up the adapters to make things reliable it just makes you want to package them up and return them.

Can anyone give me any advice on how to try to get these adapters working in my network? Just to be preemptive let me say.. getting rid of x1 tv service/dvr is not an option and neither is running any new cable.

Thanks for the help and sorry about the long winded post.

Have you setup with all moca splitters and moca PoE filters for devices you want to seperate from your moca pathway?

Using only Moca splitters allows for you to make sure when your signals get split, that they are split with the right frequencies, and the PoE filters on devices that you want to separate from the moca setup attenuates the frequency on those devices ensuring they are not interfering with your Moca adapter setup.

 

[Michael Nunes]

Have you setup with all moca splitters and moca PoE filters for devices you want to seperate from your moca pathway?

Using only Moca splitters allows for you to make sure when your signals get split, that they are split with the right frequencies, and the PoE filters on devices that you want to separate from the moca setup attenuates the frequency on those devices ensuring they are not interfering with your Moca adapter setup.

Yes, there is a POE filter on the feed coax entering the attic and the only other splitter in the house is moca capable. It’s not possible to put moca filters anywhere else in house as the two places the adapters are going are pulling double duty... xfinity x1 devices and Motorola moca adapters.

 

[Jumpstarter]

try splitting the X1 platform away from the rest of your moca setup. when you make that split, you want to seperate the networks with a PoE filter. I have Xfinity X1 with my setup and this is what solved the issue for me.

 

[Jumpstarter]

this is the moca PoE I have separating the two coaxial networks.

and this is the type of splitter

note they make them able to split more devices if needed.

You would place the PoE filter in the position of the going Out part so that way anything on the going out end would strictly be for your Moca network. anything on the other end would not be need a filter would be for your X1.

 

[Jumpstarter]

notice there are other options in RF bands you can used as well.

 

[Jumpstarter]

View attachment 18492
View attachment 18493
View attachment 18494
notice there are other options in RF bands you can used as well.

Xfinity X1 Platform will drown out the higher band if it is on the platform with the Moca so it is either important to tell moca adapters to use a lower band, or to split off the moca adapter network to a separate coaxial network using a POE filter. This will keep all of the Moca adapter signals In and all the X1 signals out.

 

[Michael Nunes]

I don’t see how I could possibly split the two apart via filters when the two different networks are literally on the same coax (there is only one coax feeding each drop) at both drops? Do they have individual moca channel filters? I’m sure they do, but that would possibly break x1 in the future as I’m guessing Comcast is expecting access to more than one Moca channel?

 

[Jumpstarter]

Comcast representative comes out to your house this is what they are most likely going to do to resolve your issue.
So I have a X1 DVR and Several HD X1 Adapters that link to the X1 platform.
I have the main feed coming from out side with a moca filter to the street to prevent out side networks from interfering with comcast, then I have
my Comcast Industry Moca splitter setup with all of my X1 devices split among it along with my cable modem( I separate my cable modem by another moca splitter self supplied, with a POE filter this keeps X1 signals from bleeding in and over powering the moca adapters), All of my moca adapters are ran in tandem with the modems seperate coaxial feed coming in.

When I first setup the moca network I had issues with my X1 , this is when I had them connected on the same feed. My x1 platform would have hiccups constantly and my moca adapters would never achieve full signal ( at this time i didn't know I could adjust the bands on the moca adapters.)

I reconfigured it to separate the connections and my issues went away.

 

[Michael Nunes]

Comcast representative comes out to your house this is what they are most likely going to do to resolve your issue.

I don’t see how... all the possible filters and splitters are already in place. You can’t filter anymore then I’ve already done otherwise you’d be filtering out the frequencies both networks use to function.

 

[Michael Nunes]

You do realize that from the wall jack at BOTH locations that are to have a Motorola adapter there is only one coax and the same coax has to be used for both an x1 device and the Motorola adapter and that both devices utilize moca d band frequencies? Short of having another coax that runs between both locations it’s impossible to isolate the two different moca networks as far as I know.

 

[Jumpstarter]

You do realize that from the wall jack at BOTH locations that are to have a Motorola adapter there is only one coax and the same coax has to be used for both an x1 device and the Motorola adapter and that both devices utilize moca d band frequencies? Short of having another coax that runs between both locations it’s impossible to isolate the two different moca networks as far as I know.

you will probably require a comcast representative to wire in such away that it works for you. if you pay for their protection plan you can easily get a rep. out to rewire for you. Unless you adjust the Band of the moca adapter down to a lower Band.

With X1 it is still recommended to split the signals with a moca spitter instead of trying to send the X1 signal through the moca adapter.




splitter in (wall cable)


splitter out 1 (moca adapter) splitter out 2 (X1 Box)

 

[degrub]

Ookla speedtest plus others. They were all the same.

Also, like I mentioned the adapters configuration page isn’t very friendly and I don’t remember if giving any indication as to whether it was 2.0 bonded or not.

you should consider using iperf with the parallel stream options (search on here to get the exact iperf command). All you need are two laptops/pcs - ones as the iperf server and one as the client. That will confirm what the modems are able to do over the cable.

 

[Samir]

Oh my. I don't think you're going to have much luck with 2 moca networks on the same coax. It doesn't work well with powerline technology and I don't think it will with moca either.

If you haven't tried powerlines, those are an option and if you just want a steady 200Mbps, there are also vdsl boxes that can use just an old phone wire.