ZyXEL Introduces Cheaper UTM Gateway

[AdvHomeServer]

First to market with what? They're not the first UTM.

Absolutely correct. Please consider the reality they're the first, or close to the first, to segment the home market. Zyxel utm, as it currently exists, will never be in most homes. A descendant of the Bitdefender Box might. Stop thing engineering. Start thinking who buys this stuff.

 

[thiggins]

Absolutely correct. Please consider the reality they're the first, or close to the first, to segment the home market. Zyxel utm, as it currently exists, will never be in most homes. A descendant of the Bitdefender Box might. Stop thing engineering. Start thinking who buys this stuff.

Well, ok. You could check with the Yoggie guys to see how they did.

ZyXEL is already in many homes since they supply many telcos. They are actually better positioned than a startup to get UTMs into the residential market if they wanted to.

 

[thiggins]

Maybe cynical, but from my experience with customers AV tales, it does seem realistic.

The most infected PC's I have seen are the ones with paid for AV software installed.

I also have seen incorrectly installed AV, multiple AV, expired licenses, etc.

That's why protection has to be central and managed / updated by somone who knows how. Relying on consumers to do it has partially brought us to where we are.

 

[AdvHomeServer]

Well, ok. You could check with the Yoggie guys to see how they did.

ZyXEL is already in many homes since they supply many telcos. They are actually better positioned than a startup to get UTMs into the residential market if they wanted to.

You're living the dream. Zyxel may be making enough money to be happy, but they don't own the mass market ... or even register. Even this site concentrates on Asus, Netgear, and TPlink more than all other routers. I'm absolutely sure their product is superior in all respects. it will never be in my brother-in-law's house or anyone he knows. I would consider the UTM machine if annual fees weren't higher than the Amazon cost of the router. They're in the wrong market. They're using the ink jet printer model except the router is also expensive and the ink is sky high, if I understand the pricing correctly.

My point exactly about the 'home market' It's wide open and the next big thing. Anyone who thinks products more complicated than a microwave will prevail are dreaming. If you understand the concept of a mathematical limit, zero should be what the difficulty approaches while cost is low and performance is high. Now, put the engineers to work who want some business.

Look, if Comcast can toss in free Norton Internet Security for each pc on my network, down the road they can do the same with my gateway once the market is developed.

 

[Jay_S]

It's not unit volume, it's profitability. Even though fewer units are sold, profit margin is higher and the category makes more money than others.

Like I said, you would know better than I would. I have no finger on this pulse. I was looking at it from the perspective: mainstream gear = bread & butter low margin, high volume; enthusiast gear = low volume, high margin. It's probably in any OEM's interest to have a horse in both races.

That's a good point. Hell, my telco/ISP keeps sending me Smart Home pitches. I would be more receptive to an internet security offering (beyond an AV program bundle), provided they had the right partner.

Taking it a step further, since our ISPs are already doing deep packet inspection (for marketing and law enforcement), why not just let them scan for viruses too?

 

[L&LD]

I also have seen incorrectly installed AV, multiple AV, expired licenses, etc.

That's why protection has to be central and managed / updated by somone who knows how. Relying on consumers to do it has partially brought us to where we are.

That's where we disagree. That is not protection - that is giving some random person the keys to the front door and the car keys too.

Sure, most consumers are not the brightest bulbs when it comes to computers, let alone the securing of them, but those are problems that are best attacked with education.

Not by babysitting them and thereby keeping them ignorant.

 

[AdvHomeServer]

I just took another look at the zyxel page for the USG40HE. It looks like a great product that fills a need. They are the forerunners of an industry yet to be developed. My specific issues are:

The page makes no mention, specifically, of what the router does without a subscription to the software. Which functions are software dependent and which ones work without paying a subscription fee?

What is the subscription fee for base services?

What is the subscription fee for the supplemental AV and antispam services?

Do the VPN services carry a fee beyond a certain operational level?

Are there any other charges not made obvious?

(Yes, someone here mentioned what they thought the prices are after calling Zyxel. Why not post them and show exactly what the paid for services accomplish over not having them.)

You can call them up for a free 30 minute install talk. Why not a Youtube Video? Or a how-to tutorial with pictures. Pfsense has a fantastic how-to section on their site. Lots of other mfgrs do YouTube.

They appear to have experience in this market. The problem is NOT being able to figure out how to make it an impulse purchase or a passion. They may end up developing a product that someone else emulates at lower cost for mass market consumption. Perhaps, as an exercise, they can do an "As Seen On TV" role play ... What would it be and how much would it cost to be able to sell it on as seen on tv? Then, make one and mass market it - in traditional channels.

 

[thiggins]

Service pricing

All pricing is U.S. MSRP.

[FONT=&quot]MSRP USG40HE + IDP + CF bundle[FONT=&quot]: [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]$279[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MSRP for Anti-Virus and Anti-Spam service if consumers want to add[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]AV 1 Year: $75[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]AV 2 Year: $130[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]AS 1 Year: $135[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]AS 2 Year: $235[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MSRP for Content Filtering and IDP service renewal [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CF 1 Year: $110[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CF 2 Year: $190[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]IDP 1 Year: $75[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]IDP 2 Year: $130[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MSRP for total service renewal package AV+IDP+CF+AS[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]UTM Bundle [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Year: $230[/FONT]

 

[AdvHomeServer]

All pricing is U.S. MSRP.

[FONT=&quot]MSRP USG40HE + IDP + CF bundle[FONT=&quot]: [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]$279[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MSRP for Anti-Virus and Anti-Spam service if consumers want to add[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]AV 1 Year: $75[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]AV 2 Year: $130[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]AS 1 Year: $135[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]AS 2 Year: $235[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MSRP for Content Filtering and IDP service renewal [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CF 1 Year: $110[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CF 2 Year: $190[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]IDP 1 Year: $75[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]IDP 2 Year: $130[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MSRP for total service renewal package AV+IDP+CF+AS[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]UTM Bundle [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Year: $230[/FONT]

$279/yr for software. The router costs about that much with a 1 year sub included, unless some of the $279 is for extra cost items.

If Comcast can give me Norton Internet Security Software, the whole package, for free for all my PCs with my internet subscription, this pricing seems a little high. Also, is the router any different from all other routers without a subscription? If so, in what way?

I don't understand the animosity. This is a breakthrough product for the home market if someone can figure out how to package it properly.

 

[thiggins]

I don't understand the animosity. This is a breakthrough product for the home market if someone can figure out how to package it properly.

What animosity? Yes, pricing is key.

 

[vnangia]

Funny. About two years ago, I started looking at improving network security and had considered the ZyXel USG20 and was basically told by more learned folks here to stop worrying about it. Given the budget realities and the advice, I had stopped worrying about it, though every so often I've asked around for advice, with varying results.

At any rate, it's still bothering the heck out of me and I've stopped rolling out any more internet-of-things type of devices until I have time and money to look into it seriously. I have put together a long, long list of potential devices and have found is that most numbers are meaningless since they're specced for no/max one service running, not using an internet mix of traffic but evenly sized 1500 packets. Where throughput numbers were available, pricing wasn't. I did find Virtual Graffiti's list of firewall and UTM product providers extremely useful, since they largely do carry the entire range of products and break out pricing. The throughput numbers, as always, are pretty meaningless since no one seems to review this category of product for SOHO networks.

I'm traveling with poor internet connectivity until the end of the month, but if people are interested, I can update and post that radar chart I had built for devices I was considering a year or so ago. My budget then - as now - is $750 for the device absolute maximum, under $500 strongly preferred. Annual cost of under $250 for gateway AV and IDS/IDP. Has to handle a 75/75 symmetric fiber line, and ideally should be able to handle 100/100 for future growth, and a 10/2 backup line. And of course, I really wanted to not spend every waking hour on the device installing updates, approving and denying internet traffic and so on. I was willing to look into pfSense, but even with Snorby, snort was impossible to manage the last time I looked.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

PFSense shouldn't even be in a thread about UTMs.....even with snort 'n clam, it can't find a herpe in a mexican w@#$&house.

If you want to toss free *nix UTM firewalls in the mix, look at Endian or Untangle...especially Untangle since it has several other modules in it which actually deal more with web based malware..

However...I see some comments about how UTMs will never make it into homes, and have little chance in SMBs. Baloney! We're an SMB IT services consulting group with over 300 active SMB clients....and the vast majority of our clients are behind UTMs. We push very hard for biz clients to be behind them. And we layer that security with safe DNS services, and a different brand antivirus on the desktop and servers, and combine with managed updates (including web player updates..java, flash, etc). Layered security is where it's at.

And for residential people...all it takes is a few times of their home PCs getting hosed with malware, and a bank account jacking...or a few e-mail account jackings...and they're onboard a UTM. We done it for a few.

I think it's great to see ZyXELs more entry level UTM gateway, and I'm looking forward to Bitdefenders Box to hit the shelves....they both utilize AV engines that have been in the top 3 of AV-Comparatives for a few years in a row now. Great great products.

With homes having multiple computers now, and smart devices, and paying so much for internet connections and all their tech gadgets....the cost of a UTM and its subscription is a drop in the bucket!

And it does not replace the desktop AV...think "layered security"...should still have a different brand AV on the nodes.

 

[vnangia]

PFSense shouldn't even be in a thread about UTMs.....even with snort 'n clam, it can't find a herpe in a mexican w@#$&house.

If you want to toss free *nix UTM firewalls in the mix, look at Endian or Untangle...especially Untangle since it has several other modules in it which actually deal more with web based malware..

However...I see some comments about how UTMs will never make it into homes, and have little chance in SMBs. Baloney! We're an SMB IT services consulting group with over 300 active SMB clients....and the vast majority of our clients are behind UTMs. We push very hard for biz clients to be behind them. And we layer that security with safe DNS services, and a different brand antivirus on the desktop and servers, and combine with managed updates (including web player updates..java, flash, etc). Layered security is where it's at.

And for residential people...all it takes is a few times of their home PCs getting hosed with malware, and a bank account jacking...or a few e-mail account jackings...and they're onboard a UTM. We done it for a few.

I think it's great to see ZyXELs more entry level UTM gateway, and I'm looking forward to Bitdefenders Box to hit the shelves....they both utilize AV engines that have been in the top 3 of AV-Comparatives for a few years in a row now. Great great products.

With homes having multiple computers now, and smart devices, and paying so much for internet connections and all their tech gadgets....the cost of a UTM and its subscription is a drop in the bucket!

And it does not replace the desktop AV...think "layered security"...should still have a different brand AV on the nodes.

Is it possible to get a pricing figure on Untangle or Endian? I searched and searched and the only options seemed to be to contact them. I do not have a sense of exactly how many devices are on my network at any given time, but given that most run dual-stack, it's at least in the 100ish range.

Do you have a specific recommendation for my situation? Specifically, needs to handle a 75/75 fiber line (ideally 100/100) under IMIX conditions with gateway AV and IDS/IDP? Nothing else needed. Device should be well below $750, subscription should be under $250 annually.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Is it possible to get a pricing figure on Untangle or Endian? I searched and searched and the only options seemed to be to contact them. I do not have a sense of exactly how many devices are on my network at any given time, but given that most run dual-stack, it's at least in the 100ish range.

Do you have a specific recommendation for my situation? Specifically, needs to handle a 75/75 fiber line (ideally 100/100) under IMIX conditions with gateway AV and IDS/IDP? Nothing else needed. Device should be well below $750, subscription should be under $250 annually.

Both Endian and Untangle have "free" editions....you can install them on your own hardware....be it a repurposed computer with 2x NICs...or a special hardware appliance (such as NexGenAppliances).

They also sell subscriptions which get you additional "modules"...such as a second AV scanner, and support....various "ala cart" options, or whole bundles. The free version includes Virus Blocker Lite....which is just based on ClamAV. You can get a feeling of Untangles prices on their website....it's based on what module(s) or bundle you want, combined with how many devices you have on the network. So the price can go from "free" if you use the Lite (free) version on your own repurposed old computer....to a lot of money if you purchase a higher end package and put it on a fancy hardware appliance like an NG-50 from NexGen.

Even the free version does quite well at blocking malware....since it has a module in addition to the basic AV, the Malware Blocker. Toss in the free module of AdBlock Plus (so you run adblocker at the gateway)...and you help cut down on exposure to web based threats fairly well. Combine that with using a Safe DNS service like OpenDNS and you're layering the protection on your network quite well for free. If you'd like to add the second Virus Blocker component...which is pay for, for 10x devices on the network that would cost just over 100 bucks/year. It uses the Bitdefender engine.

From years of experience in putting various versions of Untangle in business clients networks...even the free Lite version has shown to be effective in cutting down malware calls. On my clients that pay us fixed monthly MSP fees for supporting their network...if I can't sell them on a pay for version on a nice small appliance, I will build a little Untangle Lite box on a little small form factor computer and put it on their network to reduce the calls we get for cleaning malware. Spending two hours building and installing one will save us many hours of malware cleaning over a years time...and for fixed monthly rate MSP clients we have...less time spent cleaning malware equals a more profitable client.

 

[AdvHomeServer]

And for residential people...all it takes is a few times of their home PCs getting hosed with malware, and a bank account jacking...or a few e-mail account jackings...and they're onboard a UTM. We done it for a few.

I think it's great to see ZyXELs more entry level UTM gateway, and I'm looking forward to Bitdefenders Box to hit the shelves....they both utilize AV engines that have been in the top 3 of AV-Comparatives for a few years in a row now. Great great products.
.

Agree with much of what you said. I believe firmly that the home UTM is the next big product for the home network, once manufacturers figure out exactly what to offer, how to price it effectively, and how to market it. I don't think that's a tall order if someone actually sits down to look at the state of technology, decide on a physical product, and price it so it's hard to say no ... all with a mind towards the home user. Bitdefender is making the effort. So can others.

I believe only a few noisy consumers really care about AC3200 or the infinity beyond .... at this time. Maybe in 2 or three years as average PC builds get there, AC infinity will become more popular. Protecting the home nanny cam from Chinese or Russian voyeurs makes the home UTM an easy sell if manufacturers stop trying to make maximum profit on each individual customer and start thinking about volume. Also ease of operations.

Although I have two AC routers (one is a 5GHz client bridge), technologically I could still be quite happy with N600. AC-infinity is just keeping the factories busy. The home UTM could make them productive.

For my own use, I've been kicking around a free Sophos home subscription with a dual nic small form PC if I ever decide to take the plunge. The dual nic pc has a cost, but the free for home use Sophos package makes the whole deal looks attractive. I don't know if I will take the plunge soon, however, because I still have an unused edgerouter lite littering a shelf .... I bought it on impulse because I believed some of the hype.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Yeah Sopho's UTM is a damn fine package (previously Astaro). I ran that at home for quite a while. Back in the days when it was Astaro one of their sales guys was calling me all the time to be a reseller...annoying and pushy. But yeah...a very nicely groomed, mature package.

 

[Waltski]

Dumb question - can I use this simply as a good IPv6 router with dual WAN capabilities? Seems like the hardware would be good for this, even without using the A/V subscriptions.

 

[L&LD]

Dumb question - can I use this simply as a good IPv6 router with dual WAN capabilities? Seems like the hardware would be good for this, even without using the A/V subscriptions.

I think that is the problem; if you can't get in to even configure it, it is just a paper weight.

 

[vnangia]

Both Endian and Untangle have "free" editions....you can install them on your own hardware....be it a repurposed computer with 2x NICs...or a special hardware appliance (such as NexGenAppliances).

They also sell subscriptions which get you additional "modules"...such as a second AV scanner, and support....various "ala cart" options, or whole bundles. The free version includes Virus Blocker Lite....which is just based on ClamAV. You can get a feeling of Untangles prices on their website....it's based on what module(s) or bundle you want, combined with how many devices you have on the network. So the price can go from "free" if you use the Lite (free) version on your own repurposed old computer....to a lot of money if you purchase a higher end package and put it on a fancy hardware appliance like an NG-50 from NexGen.

Even the free version does quite well at blocking malware....since it has a module in addition to the basic AV, the Malware Blocker. Toss in the free module of AdBlock Plus (so you run adblocker at the gateway)...and you help cut down on exposure to web based threats fairly well. Combine that with using a Safe DNS service like OpenDNS and you're layering the protection on your network quite well for free. If you'd like to add the second Virus Blocker component...which is pay for, for 10x devices on the network that would cost just over 100 bucks/year. It uses the Bitdefender engine.

From years of experience in putting various versions of Untangle in business clients networks...even the free Lite version has shown to be effective in cutting down malware calls. On my clients that pay us fixed monthly MSP fees for supporting their network...if I can't sell them on a pay for version on a nice small appliance, I will build a little Untangle Lite box on a little small form factor computer and put it on their network to reduce the calls we get for cleaning malware. Spending two hours building and installing one will save us many hours of malware cleaning over a years time...and for fixed monthly rate MSP clients we have...less time spent cleaning malware equals a more profitable client.

Yeah, unfortunately, with Untangle we're looking at the 51-150 band, really since we have about 45 web-facing devices, with about half running dual-stack so really about 60 "devices". I suppose we can probably, with some judicious work, create a unblocked network filled with devices that are safe to directly access the internet, but even then, the full package for 11-50 is over $1K a year. Fine for a business, but not really home-oriented. Even dual-WAN is $100 a year. Untangle is just not competitive for home use unless you're willing to use their free setup with a single ISP.

Now that I'm back from a longish trip, I'll finish the research and buy a device pretty soon. Just sad there are no FOSS efforts any longer.

 

[coxhaus]

I want to second Untangle.

I have been running the free addition since it came out. It is a very low maintain device. Most of the updates happen behind the scenes at night. The only thing is you need a standalone wireless device for Untangle.

Untangle runs in 2 modes. One is router mode and the other is transparent bridge mode behind an already installed router.