Starting to despair

[maxbraketorque]

A couple of thoughts:

- Definitely disable all the MIMO stuff.
- I've not had a problem with Universal Beam Forming on any of the ASUS routers I've owned, but couldn't hurt to try turning it off.
- It looks like you have enabled AX for the 2.4 GHz band. Is the Fritzbox also running AX in the 2.4 GHz band? I personally see no point in using AX on the 2.4 GHz band because I only put low bandwidth stuff on 2.4 GHz. So I always set 2.4 GHz to N-only.
- If Channel 11 is constantly occupied by a neighbor, bail on it.

 

[drinkingbird]

The ISP router is an AX router.

They don't have a baby and there's some distance between their rooms and where I have the router mounted (roughly in the centre of my home).

That was just an example of one of the many things that can interfere.

These are the options I have, so how would I disable 802.11b?
View attachment 51861

Take a close look at that picture and your text I've put in bold.

One note - Auto + Disable B will result in all legacy rates being disabled which is good, with two caveats:
1. Some older devices especially IOT may not be able to connect, even though they are N.
2. If a G device is detected it may re-enable some of the legacy rates unbeknownst to you

The alternative is to set it to "N only" which will leave the 5.5 and 11 meg legacy rates enabled but increases compatibility (while still disabling the slowest legacy B rates).

You can try Auto + disable B first and if everything can connect that's probably fine to stick with (you'd have to go into the CLI to monitor if it is detecting G devices and re-enabling some legacy rates though, but G devices are pretty rare these days).
I use N only (which automatically disables B and greys that box out) since I have a couple old N devices which don't like the 5.5M rate being disabled. Works fine for me.

Disabling USB 3.0 didn't make any difference, which is why I decided to give the official firmware a try to see if that made any difference.

You said in a previous post it made a significant difference, just not on channel 11.

It seems very strange that ASUS are releasing products that require expert tweaks to get them to work properly and what use is the auto setting for the Wi-Fi channel if it can't pick the best channel to use? Do they really expect us to have to keep checking our network settings each day to keep things running at their best?

But they aren't - the default is auto channel. You're the one that changed it to static channel.

Given the state of 2.4ghz, this is not an Asus problem, it is an everyone problem. It picks the best channel at the time the wifi comes up. But the 2.4ghz environment can change frequently throughout the day. I've never seen my router pick a new channel without rebooting or bouncing the wireless, but other users have reported that it will do it, but only if there is pretty severe interference.

 

[drinkingbird]

The guest channel is just being used for an IoT device (a Honeywell thermostatic radiator valves controller).

That's fine, just making sure it is the same AP/Asus and not a separate AP using the same channel which would obviously be an issue.

Begs the question then why did the router decide to choose that channel?

Because as you've said, sometimes channel 11 is fine, so when you rebooted the router, 11 was clear and thus 9 was also. Then when whatever it is that kills channel 11 fired up, your channel 9 suffered, and like I said in my other post above, routers and APs tend to be pretty "sticky" until you reboot or bounce the wireless and they can re-scan. Eventually it probably would have moved away from channel 9 as it appears to be pretty severe interference, but it is not changing channels constantly, that would cause all kinds of outages throughout the day.

Since your environment seems fairly clear with only a couple neighboring networks (definitely nothing like you'd see around me), you can try hardcoding channel 1 and hope that your neighbors devices see that anytime they select a channel and stay away from it. See how that works over time.

 

[drinkingbird]

A couple of thoughts:

- Definitely disable all the MIMO stuff.
- I've not had a problem with Universal Beam Forming on any of the ASUS routers I've owned, but couldn't hurt to try turning it off.
- It looks like you have enabled AX for the 2.4 GHz band. Is the Fritzbox also running AX in the 2.4 GHz band? I personally see no point in using AX on the 2.4 GHz band because I only put low bandwidth stuff on 2.4 GHz. So I always set 2.4 GHz to N-only.
- If Channel 11 is constantly occupied by a neighbor, bail on it.

AX actually brings some benefits to 2.4ghz but at the same time it can also be much more sensitive to interference (non-wifi interference, as it is well designed to co-exist with other wifi, especially other AX 2.4 wifi). So it is one of those YMMV things, AX on 2.4 may be good for some and bad for others. Your question is valid though, if the ISP device is only running N on 2.4Ghz, that could be why it is dealing with that unknown interference better.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

Thanks for all your suggestions and comments. If the interference is back by tomorrow, I'll try setting N only and see if that makes any difference.

 

[drinkingbird]

Thanks for all your suggestions and comments. If the interference is back by tomorrow, I'll try setting N only and see if that makes any difference.

So are you basically saying that if you can't get your router to operate at full 2.4ghz speeds on all 11 channels you will return it? I'll save you a lot of time and hassle, just return it.

For your particular situation (lucky to have very little neighboring wifi) I'd see how it works hardcoded to 1. If it is consistent and your neighbors avoid it, you're good to go, on to bigger and better things.

How many 2.4ghz only devices do you have anyway? How much bandwidth do they really need?

 

[TheLyppardMan]

OK, I'm now mildly optimistic! Earlier this evening I set the 2.4 GHz band to "N only" and since then, although the speeds have dropped a bit (no issue at all for the half a dozen devices I have that use that band), they are much more consistent (see latest results - you can clearly see where changed the setting). In the last half an hour, I have reinstalled the latest Merlin build and used the last configuration file I saved from that build. I just had to reset the 2.4 GHz band to "N only" and manually set the Wi-Fi channels to use 1 & 44 (the latter seems to give the best results on the 5 GHz band). I've also set the USB flash drive to use 2.0 mode, although I'm still not sure it was causing any problems when set to 3.0 mode, but it doesn't need to be on 3.0, so best to be safe than sorry. Incidentally, as others have commented, the Samsung flash drive was getting really hot, so I have added a small extension to it, which has solved the problem. I've used one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09Q8ZDP5F/?tag=smallncom-21

I've leave the monitoring on overnight and review the situation in the morning.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

So are you basically saying that if you can't get your router to operate at full 2.4ghz speeds on all 11 channels you will return it? I'll save you a lot of time and hassle, just return it.

I didn't say that at all.

For your particular situation (lucky to have very little neighboring wifi) I'd see how it works hardcoded to 1. If it is consistent and your neighbors avoid it, you're good to go, on to bigger and better things.

How many 2.4ghz only devices do you have anyway? How much bandwidth do they really need?

 

[A Purohit]

It seems very strange that ASUS are releasing products that require expert tweaks to get them to work properly and what use is the auto setting for the Wi-Fi channel if it can't pick the best channel to use? Do they really expect us to have to keep checking our network settings each day to keep things running at their best?

A casual user would never notice that their speeds were slower, because the wouldn't even know to check speed tests and such. For those people, they'd leave it on auto, never look, and never really realize that their service is slow. At worst, they'll buy a "newer" or "faster" router, which may solve the problem for them temporarily... but it could still go bad.

I think of my parents and in-law-parents. They would have no clue on any of this, and probably don't even know their router has a webpage or how to get to it. And, as I can attest, they'll just buy a replacement whatever to make it go faster, if they even notice. They've done this many times...

So, if you want to look with a bigger microscope, then you'll see where things are not quite "great"... and then, yes, you'll need to go in there and "fix" it. But you can't claim you are a novice, and then dive in tinkering, and then complain when things don't work. You have to learn the advanced stuff if you're going to be in there... or stop looking... or buy your way out of it.

EDIT: In most cases, the mfgs will choose what's most COMPATIBLE. Not what's the highest performance. If you want more performance, you may need to disable things to get there... or clean up your environment to replicate the test/marketing specs. Short answer, you can't always control your environment, and so those things will ALWAYS keep changing.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

A casual user would never notice that their speeds were slower, because the wouldn't even know to check speed tests and such. For those people, they'd leave it on auto, never look, and never really realize that their service is slow. At worst, they'll buy a "newer" or "faster" router, which may solve the problem for them temporarily... but it could still go bad.

I think of my parents and in-law-parents. They would have no clue on any of this, and probably don't even know their router has a webpage or how to get to it. And, as I can attest, they'll just buy a replacement whatever to make it go faster, if they even notice. They've done this many times...

So, if you want to look with a bigger microscope, then you'll see where things are not quite "great"... and then, yes, you'll need to go in there and "fix" it. But you can't claim you are a novice, and then dive in tinkering, and then complain when things don't work. You have to learn the advanced stuff if you're going to be in there... or stop looking... or buy your way out of it.

EDIT: In most cases, the mfgs will choose what's most COMPATIBLE. Not what's the highest performance. If you want more performance, you may need to disable things to get there... or clean up your environment to replicate the test/marketing specs. Short answer, you can't always control your environment, and so those things will ALWAYS keep changing.

I had no choice to "tinker" in my case because things got so dire that my network printer stopped working. Initially I thought it was the printer dying, but after reinstalling the drivers a few times I discovered something else on my network wasn't working, so then I turned my attention to the router and that's how all this got started. ASUS lull people into a false sense of security by having the default setiings to "auto". If it can't cut the mustard, then what's the point of it? If it can't make sensible decisions when there are only a few competing Wi-Fi networks around, what chance has it got in more crowded environments. I would have expected something better from a high-end router.

 

[A Purohit]

I had no choice to "tinker" in my case because things got so dire that my network printer stopped working. Initially I thought it was the printer dying, but after reinstalling the drivers a few times I discovered something else on my network wasn't working, so then I turned my attention to the router and that's how all this got started. ASUS lull people into a false sense of security by having the default setiings to "auto". If it can't cut the mustard, then what's the point of it? If it can't make sensible decisions when there are only a few competing Wi-Fi networks around, what chance has it got in more crowded environments. I would have expected something better from a high-end router.

Valid direction, but, again, a casual user would buy a new printer or router... never diving into the settings. Hell, some might even just use a USB cable and call it a day. I promise you they'd never look into the router.

I agree that this is the "right" way to resolve the matter, but that means you simply need to learn more about it and figure it out. It's not ASUS' fault that it doesn't work in your environment. They don't build them for "every" possible case, they just do what they can to cover the majority.

You're right, the auto "should" work better, but it's not that smart - on ANY router. My guess is, if it was left on auto, eventually it may jump off 11 and go elsewhere, resolving the issue. Maybe the algorithm didn't have enough time to figure it out. We don't know, as it's proprietary, unfortunately. It could be made smarter, it could be made better... but it can't cover ALL cases. As long as it covers most of them, no one else will notice. Sorry, but you're in the minority here.

Anyway, all that said, get off 11. Doesn't matter WHY it doesn't work for you... it doesn't today. Go to another, and call it a day. Frankly wifi is a terrible system. It works reasonably well for most... and that's why so many use it. I also use it a lot more than I expected to... I figured I'd stay on wired, but it's fast and good enough, but it's not perfect by any means. Here's an old article that discusses that as well: https://arstechnica.com/information...hat-a-deep-dive-into-why-wi-fi-kind-of-sucks/

So, in the end, you have an edge case... that's why auto doesn't work great for you. I (and MANY others) have used Auto in the past with no issues. I chose to switch off it, because I live far enough out that I know my neighbors won't bounce much... and I really only have 2 to worry about. Again, it works well enough for most... just because it doesn't work for YOU doesn't mean it's worthless or even "bad". You've heard of the 80/20 rule... well, I'd say that Auto works for >80%. It's too bad you're in the 20% (or less) group.

Also, the Asus is a highER end router, but it's not a HIGH end one. You want that, you need to go commercial. Bring your wallet. And even then, it may not solve your issue. Even commercial setups recommend changing and adjusting channels... that's why big companies have IT groups. If you want to buy a true HIGH end router and an IT department, you may get perfect performance more often. But even there, it won't last forever without adjustments.

 

[maxbraketorque]

OK, I'm now mildly optimistic! Earlier this evening I set the 2.4 GHz band to "N only" and since then, although the speeds have dropped a bit (no issue at all for the half a dozen devices I have that use that band), they are much more consistent (see latest results - you can clearly see where changed the setting). In the last half an hour, I have reinstalled the latest Merlin build and used the last configuration file I saved from that build. I just had to reset the 2.4 GHz band to "N only" and manually set the Wi-Fi channels to use 1 & 44 (the latter seems to give the best results on the 5 GHz band). I've also set the USB flash drive to use 2.0 mode, although I'm still not sure it was causing any problems when set to 3.0 mode, but it doesn't need to be on 3.0, so best to be safe than sorry. Incidentally, as others have commented, the Samsung flash drive was getting really hot, so I have added a small extension to it, which has solved the problem. I've used one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09Q8ZDP5F/?tag=smallncom-21

I've leave the monitoring on overnight and review the situation in the morning.

Was the Fritzbox running AX on the 2.4 GHz band?

 

[TheLyppardMan]

Was the Fritzbox running AX on the 2.4 GHz band?

I don't know, but I'll be trying it out again later today as you see from my next post.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

Well. my optimism was short lived. When I came down this morning I saw that all had been well over the night time period, thus:

But now look what's happening (and I'm still on channel 1, with very little other traffic on that channel):

 

[drinkingbird]

Well. my optimism was short lived. When I came down this morning I saw that all had been well over the night time period, thus:



But now look what's happening (and I'm still on channel 1, with very little other traffic on that channel):

So it appears to be you. What bluetooth device do you turn on/use when you get up, do you power up your mobile in the morning, etc?

Remember, inSSIDer is just showing you wifi networks. Not spectrum use/interference.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

I've found the answer to the latest "interference". I'd forgotten that my laptop (where I'm running the test from) does an automatic disk image backup to my NAS each morning. I've just tested it again using my ISP's router and got the same result. So, ignoring the last post, it seems like setting the Wi-Fi to use N only is the solution to this particular problem. A big thank you to you and everyone else for assisting me with this.

 

[maxbraketorque]

I'm still curious about whether the Fritzbox is set to operate in AX mode on the 2.4 GHz band.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

I'm still curious about whether the Fritzbox is set to operate in AX mode on the 2.4 GHz band.

I don't know, but you could check out the AVM website and/or send them a message if you really want to know.

 

[maxbraketorque]

I don't know, but you could check out the AVM website and/or send them a message if you really want to know.

I'm surprised that you aren't curious to know. Anyhow, no way for me to figure it out because even if you had told me the model number and that was an AX router, I have no way to know if AX was enabled. I guess you could consider checking as doing a favor for those who helped you out.

 

[drinkingbird]

I don't know, but you could check out the AVM website and/or send them a message if you really want to know.

Wow that's quite a response. Many people helped you but you can't even provide a piece of info that may help others in the future.

Throughout this thread you dismissed many fixes due to "when I woke up this morning it was crap again". But now we know that's because you were doing a backup every morning over the same connection. So at this point I guess this entire thread is moot, since the testing methodology was heavily flawed and there is no way to deduce what the issue or fix actually was.