AC1900 First Look: NETGEAR R7000 & ASUS RT-AC68U

[PrivateJoker]

The only negative though, is what I notice with this generation of Broadcom wireless chips or the amps in use. They chirp and screech when wireless is in use. I have sensitive hearing and I actually returned a Linksys because it was soooo audible. This is audible too but not as much. But the speed that you can feel with this router is amazingly different. I have not tested USB transfers yet but I think Higgin's results speak for themselves.

The Linksys was generating a noise out of the router itself, or you were using a Bluetooth speaker or headset and heard squealing over it?

With any pattern of rhyme or reason? There are a ton of Broadcom wifi chips in routers, laptops, cell phones, etc.

Did you ever try to measure the freq you were hearing? That's pretty interesting.

 

[twitchyzero]

Advice Needed

Hi, 1st post on this informative site. Looks like a nice community here.

I'm looking to retire my aging DIR-655/665...currently on 50mbps down/10 up..so I was dead set on getting the AC68U then I see this article (thank you Tim BTW). I need something that will last me for years.

I don't care too much about wireless performance...I have a number of heavy downloaders/streamers on my LAN and I get poor wired online gaming latency so here's what's most important to me.

1. QoS
2. ability to handle tons of connections (no dropped connection/minimal power cycling)
3. 3rd party FW support

right now I also stream 1080p to PS3 from my PC. In the future I hope to game stream to my HTPC via SteamOS and possibly add a NAS.

I'm VERY interested in the R7k...its brute performance and cloud-databased QoS are looking extremely attractive...butI only haven't pulled the trigger because of all the not-so-stellar failure stories/lack of support of their old Netgear hardware.

It seems like ASUS would have the upper hand in wide 3rd party support, longer FW support from the company itself.

ASUS looks to be a safer bet but Netgear looks like they got a real winner as long as it can stay reliable.

I can't decide...advice is appreciated!

 

[thiggins]

Twitchy:

http://www.myopenrouter.com/download/51635/DD-WRT-Firmware-for-NETGEAR-R7000-Wi-Fi-Router/

 

[Shikami]

The Linksys was generating a noise out of the router itself, or you were using a Bluetooth speaker or headset and heard squealing over it?

With any pattern of rhyme or reason? There are a ton of Broadcom wifi chips in routers, laptops, cell phones, etc.

Did you ever try to measure the freq you were hearing? That's pretty interesting.

The router itself, and with patterns. A while ago the EA6700 was made available to the US. I picked one up to try it out and was very disappointed due to many factors (firmware, controls, etc). The major issue was how audible wireless transmission was on both frequencies.

There was even a periodical click, as like a old hard drive. The sound is similar to a hiss from a distance, but when close you can hear a screech, almost like grinding steel on steel sound. The R7000 is audible, but not nearly as much as the 6700 was. I never heard any wireless transmission do this before, but noises from electronics is very common, and have sent back motherboards in which the ferrite cores were too audible for an entirely different motherboard. I think this might be inaudible for some older people 45+ range may not hear this, and I do not have any equipment to test such.

If I get time I will try to make a video of this. I would like others to try it out with this recent Broadcom genration. It is really easy to hear it, if your hearing range is good enough.

As for the router so far I am impressed. But get this, there are new features that will be implemented in firmware, which Netgear is notorious for but none of them are a deal breaker. The only negative so far is that the Open VPN does not support iOS not Droid devices, and the audible noise that is not bad at all. The chassis keeps this router very, very cool but is big'ish. The lights are very bright and can be a nuisance if the router is going to be in a bed room-much brighter than a night light. The USB transfers are quick too with backup software available.

Also to test for the sound just set up a burst of transmission, such as a file transfer or a simple speed test. On the R7000 it is audible on the left side facing router. With the 6700 you can just be near it didn't matter facing.

 

[Razor512]

When a router makes noise like that when there is wifi activity, is that a defect, or does the company likely know about the issue and it is a design flaw?

 

[llc00ljoel]

Well it didn't take Asus to comeback with a response firmware...now if there was a way to re-bench the AC68 router again with this...


-------
Version 3.0.0.4.374.217

Description ASUS RT-AC68U Firmware version 3.0.0.4.374.217
Added:
- 2.4GHz beamforming UI option.
- Roaming assistant: allow to set the minimum RSSI to disconnect clients and let clients reconnect to Ap with better signal.
- Enhanced the USB and NAT throughput.

Fixed:
- Fixed quick internet setup UI issues when setup the router by wireless client.
- Fixed WPS push button related issues.
- Fixed IPv6 related issues.

 

[Shikami]

When a router makes noise like that when there is wifi activity, is that a defect, or does the company likely know about the issue and it is a design flaw?

Unfortunately, it would be nothing but speculation. However, truth has a habit of being somewhere in the middle of it all. Since, both routers used the BCM4360 for their radios, I am going on a limb to say that it seems to be "intrinsic" to it, or something with it (such as the amps). And I am almost sure that all of the routers using this Broadcom combo can be heard. Having two entirely different boards and makes of the same logic being used and having the same symptoms is with out a doubt is an "issue" of some sort.

The personal aspect of using something is always "the" missing element in many tests. However, as I said before this is usually not something that many are sensitive to.

Tim is it possible for you to do a simple test and and see if you hear it too?

 

[Poseidon]

For 5GHz testing, in the article it states that BOTH routers were set to 80MHz.....however I don't see an option to select/change that with the Netgear R7000. It's not available on their gui router page.

I'm wondering how Thiggins changed this for his testing?

 

[Fraoch]

Weird, I'm sure no one's interested in previous-generation technology, but I was curious about my ASUS RT-N66U. I downloaded the latest Fedora ISO over 5 GHz and sure enough, it makes a "fluttery-buzzy" sound, very faintly, from the right.

I had to hold my ear right to it and my hearing's not perfect (I'm 40) but sure enough, it does emit a faint sound.

Not enough to bother me sitting 2 feet away from it and it's washed out in fan noise from my main PC, but it's there.

 

[RMerlin]

When a router makes noise like that when there is wifi activity, is that a defect, or does the company likely know about the issue and it is a design flaw?

Quite often it's a QA issue. You might get another router of the same model and have zero noise.

Same happens with a lot of these modern electronic devices that are being sold these days. Companies are trying to maximize their profit margin, sometimes by saving 5 cents on a component by going with a cheaper one that has a wider variation in its specs. Sell 1M of these devices, and you just earned enough money to pay an executive.

 

[Shikami]

For 5GHz testing, in the article it states that BOTH routers were set to 80MHz.....however I don't see an option to select/change that with the Netgear R7000. It's not available on their gui router page.

There is not much in the way of wireless configuration. That is one thing I don't like much, again not a deal breaker though. Personally I remove all legacy b/g and use nothing but n. To be able to only choose preamble, CTS, and fragmentation was a bit limiting, I felt.

Weird, I'm sure no one's interested in previous-generation technology, but I was curious about my ASUS RT-N66U. I downloaded the latest Fedora ISO over 5 GHz and sure enough, it makes a "fluttery-buzzy" sound, very faintly, from the right.

Yep like a buzzy electrical sound; crickets on crack as I like to call it. The EA6700 was really, really loud-very. I can be at the entrance to my room and hear it 6-8 feet away. With the R7000 I have to be closer too, which made me happy, but still disappointed that there is an audible attribute. I wonder if any other ac logic has this issue too?

Quite often it's a QA issue. You might get another router of the same model and have zero noise.

In defense of others, it may not be audible, or it may be in a tolerable limit (a standard) already set that does not warrant anything.

 

[Lazz]

Well it didn't take Asus to comeback with a response firmware...now if there was a way to re-bench the AC68 router again with this...


-------
Version 3.0.0.4.374.217

Description ASUS RT-AC68U Firmware version 3.0.0.4.374.217
Added:
- 2.4GHz beamforming UI option.
- Roaming assistant: allow to set the minimum RSSI to disconnect clients and let clients reconnect to Ap with better signal.
- Enhanced the USB and NAT throughput.

Fixed:
- Fixed quick internet setup UI issues when setup the router by wireless client.
- Fixed WPS push button related issues.
- Fixed IPv6 related issues.

Well, this is interesting! I sure hope the USB throughput improves from the first look numbers.. I'd hate if the theories on lack of shielding panned out, as the big drawback for the R7000 is lack of USB3.0 support for me.

It hasn't made a difference until now as consumer routers haven't had the horsepower to drive a fast USB bus (from what I can understand), but on this latest batch of routers it seems there's the possibility of decently fast data transfer over USB.

 

[twitchyzero]

Twitchy:

http://www.myopenrouter.com/download/51635/DD-WRT-Firmware-for-NETGEAR-R7000-Wi-Fi-Router/

weird how the DD-WRT page doesn't list QoS?
Yeah I saw this CFW out of box support...I'm curious of Merlin or Shibby's Tomato will eventually make it to the R7k.
Do you have any experience with the cloud-based QoS yourself Tim?

merlin...what are the chance of you bringing merlin to the R7k given that you will be working on the ac68u? Would same chip but different radios/firmware make it very difficult to code over?

 

[Poseidon]

There is not much in the way of wireless configuration. That is one thing I don't like much, again not a deal breaker though. Personally I remove all legacy b/g and use nothing but n. To be able to only choose preamble, CTS, and fragmentation was a bit limiting,

I just purchased the Netgear R7000.

How do you disable b/g and use n only via the GUI settings page?

Also what is the recommended preamble setting for improved streaming/iPhone FaceTime performance? Default is long.

 

[Shikami]

How do you disable b/g and use n only via the GUI settings page?

I cant that was exactly what I said : "To be able to only choose preamble, CTS, and fragmentation was a bit limiting"

I always use a short preamble for my small home and users.

 

[thiggins]

When a router makes noise like that when there is wifi activity, is that a defect, or does the company likely know about the issue and it is a design flaw?

Could be neither. Probably some noise from the magnetics inside. It may bug some sharp eared folks. Most, including me, will never notice.

 

[thiggins]

There will be a retest

As stated in the review, I expected new firmware before the full review. So there will be a retest.

Don't expect USB 3 performance to improve. That requires a hardware fix. ASUS' solution of limiting the USB 3 port to USB 2 speed via software switch is not a proper solution IMO.

 

[Darknessrise]

There is not much in the way of wireless configuration. That is one thing I don't like much, again not a deal breaker though. Personally I remove all legacy b/g and use nothing but n. To be able to only choose preamble, CTS, and fragmentation was a bit limiting, I felt.




Yep like a buzzy electrical sound; crickets on crack as I like to call it. The EA6700 was really, really loud-very. I can be at the entrance to my room and hear it 6-8 feet away. With the R7000 I have to be closer too, which made me happy, but still disappointed that there is an audible attribute. I wonder if any other ac logic has this issue too?



In defense of others, it may not be audible, or it may be in a tolerable limit (a standard) already set that does not warrant anything.

I just made an account just to to add something to this. I guess I'm not crazy then.

I first noticed this happening with my R6250. It would be a light "screech." It would ONLY do it when a B network was on the same channel as you and was in range. Turning an AP to G or N made the Netgear instantly stop making that noise when the Netgear was transferring over 2.4 GHz.

I got annoyed by it so then I went to the EA6300(The fake EA6400). It wasn't happening for quite awhile until now. Lately it began making the same exact sound when transferring data over wireless. The faster the transfer, the more noise produced. This however makes the sound whether there's a B network or not.

Lastly, I also noticed my Netgear A6200 adapter made a similar but lower sound(at least I think it's coming from it too).

This screech, static, whatever sound is sort of annoying.

Here's a link to the sound file that describes the sound I hear:
http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/2094542~d179b89b7de56a6dd8d032e66c3483ab/IMG_0073.MOV

I took this a few months ago with an iPod laying against my R6250. Have to turn up your volume a bit to hear it. The screech/static is whenever there's a constant transfer going on. The tapping is when a video keeps buffering on and off. Throughout that black video with the sound, I made my phone stream a video on Youtube. Whenever I went to buffer ahead, it made the screech and tapped whenever it was buffering all it needed to.

This is obviously not what it sounds like a few feet away. From a few feet away, it only sounds like a slight buzz/staticy sound.

Seems like this is plaguing Broadcom setups. Netgear said that they tested this when I reported it, but they didn't hear any sound. I just wonder if they weren't listening close enough or not.

 

[Sky1111]

Twitchy:

http://www.myopenrouter.com/download/51635/DD-WRT-Firmware-for-NETGEAR-R7000-Wi-Fi-Router/

Did anyone try that firmware yet? For many people, availability and quality of 3rd party firmware makes or breaks the deal...

 

[Razor512]

Was able to do a little testing with the R7000, and can confirm that it does report the connection rate when in bridge mode.

When in bridge mode, the router is assigned an IP address by the main router.

If you enter in that assigned IP address, then click on the advanced tab, it tells you the connection rate that is currently in use.

I bridged the router to a WNR3500L V2, and for kicks, I bridged it to a WRT54GL


So overall, I am not sure why netgear told you that there is no way to monitor the connection rate.

The issue is that netgear does not list that page so you can consider it more as a hidden page. You enable bridge mode, then the router randomly enables a webpage on a different IP address (and does not inform you)


Screenshots:
http://i.imgur.com/rmI9voz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/J6Dxy1t.jpg