Ac86u vs ax86u vs ax86u pro

[Darkje]

So question guys. I have a ac86u and gt2900. And i got fiber 1g / 1g. Now i see that both routers are not able to get the proper speed as discussed before. After playing with pfsense I see that all is able to work properly.

I see openvpn speeds on my Asus for ac86u at 160mb same account on pfsense 500+ mb.

Will i see a good performance gain when I get myself a ac86u or the pro version (don't see a big difference between them tech wise) only slightly newer cpu and a few more build in tricks.

 

[drinkingbird]

So question guys. I have a ac86u and gt2900. And i got fiber 1g / 1g. Now i see that both routers are not able to get the proper speed as discussed before. After playing with pfsense I see that all is able to work properly.

I see openvpn speeds on my Asus for ac86u at 160mb same account on pfsense 500+ mb.

Will i see a good performance gain when I get myself a ac86u or the pro version (don't see a big difference between them tech wise) only slightly newer cpu and a few more build in tricks.

VPN performance will not come anywhere near 1G on any of these routers.

 

[Darkje]

It has hardware decryption so why shouldn't it be better. I see my gt is struggling with the 1gb as is and when 3 vpns are up all is getting just a bit to much.

So i want to move my gt as node and put the ax86u(pro) Infront as main router. And depending on the wifi signal also add the 86u.

The gt and the ax86 support 160mhz so that's why. My 86u dosnt.

 

[drinkingbird]

It has hardware decryption so why shouldn't it be better. I see my gt is struggling with the 1gb as is and when 3 vpns are up all is getting just a bit to much.

So i want to move my gt as node and put the ax86u(pro) Infront as main router. And depending on the wifi signal also add the 86u.

The gt and the ax86 support 160mhz so that's why. My 86u dosnt.

AES acceleration in the CPU means you can get 200 to 250M of VPN throughout instead of 50 (or less). Keep in mind that 250M is full size packets during a file download or speed test, normal internet usage is a mix of packet sizes so actual VPN throughout will be half that or less for that type of traffic.

If you want 500M or 1G at a somewhat reasonable price point you'll need an x86 setup with pfsense or opnsense, and even there you'll need pretty decent hardware to get near 1G.

Other than that you'll need to look for older used enterprise firewalls or routers with hardware encryption cards. But even then you're looking at a huge, loud, hot device to come near those speeds.

An x86 setup that supports wireguard is probably your best bet if you need more than 200 to 250 which is where these routers seem to max out. The Pro has a slightly faster CPU but won't make much difference.

Don't get too excited about 160mhz. All AX Wifi has it but many/most can't actually use it. But 80Mhz ax can come close to 1g on a 2 stream client so that should be plenty.

 

[RMerlin]

It has hardware decryption so why shouldn't it be better.

So do the GT-AC2900 and RT-AC86U. It's just instructions that optimise AES processing, and they are a big part of why these routers can hit around 200 Mbps, while previous routers without these instructions were hitting more around 50-70 Mbps.

 

[Darkje]

@RMerlin So iam confused, this is not a upgrade compared from the gt and the 86u?

 

[drinkingbird]

@RMerlin So iam confused, this is not a upgrade compared from the gt and the 86u?

It should bump you from 160 to between 200 and 250. But you also need to make sure the VPN client is using the correct MTU/MSS settings, that can get you better throughput. A client that supports wireguard will also be typically the fastest/most efficient. But if you want 500M or more, an Asus (or just about any home based wifi router) won't cut it.

You might be able to get more from your current setup by playing with MSS settings in the VPN configuration, also see if your VPN provider supports wireguard and install that profile, that is the most efficient VPN right now.

If your ISP supports 1500 MTU then I believe the VPN clients typically automatically set the correct MTU and MSS but I'm not positive, it may be worthwhile adjusting the mss using mss intercept feature in the VPN client to ensure you aren't having packet fragmentation.

Another consideration is what your VPN provider supports. A single connection may not be able to get 1 gig no matter how good your end is, or that may be a premium charge, etc. I know some have to load balance multiple VPN providers or connections to get full speeds.

May want to go over to the VPN forum, there are lots of discussions in there about this topic.

 

[ElmerFudd]

I’d skip the ax86u pro and go for the ax88u pro which can be found for $20 more at micro center. The ax88u comes with and extra multi gig port and is wall mountable to boot.

See Review Dong posted.

 

[Darkje]

@ElmerFudd the ax86u pro is the same as gt-6000 and ax88u pro regarding chipset and cpu. So why would that bring me more?

 

[Tech9]

The OpenVPN performance of the newer routers is about the same. None of those will give any significant improvements including in Wi-Fi. Your 160MHz goal is uncertain and only AX devices in closer range will have speed improvements. How many AX devices do you have and how many are 160MHz capable? Your routers are good. Both can do 550Mbps throughput to common 2-stream AC client. You're investing hundreds of dollars in mostly speedtest like many others around. If you want to keep your pfSense appliance better invest in PoE switch and proper VLAN capable access points with PoE.

 

[Darkje]

@Tech9 thnx bro, pfsense is really difficult to maintain with vpn routing. Even the power consumption is like whoehoe... Biggest issues now is that the gt or the 86u don't manage to keep up with my network. +/- 40 devices.
So choice is a new router I have multiple ax devices. But they sell the pro version pretty cheap. And the gt is giving me some issues like no Gui loading and stuff. Iam a Merlin junkie really like the works. And i believe Asus will enable hw offloading with wire guard. And that will not be enabled on the ac devices.

 

[Tech9]

I would replace both with RT-AX86U Pro then, but don't expect miracles in performance improvement. Your daily Internet experience is perhaps going to be exactly the same. RT-AX86U Pro is more compact size, better price, newest hardware available, Pro firmware features coming and you may re-think your pfSense appliance when the routers support VLANs. The other two suggestions GT-AX6000 and RT-AX88U Pro are basically identical hardware in different clothes and one extra 2.5GbE port. I personally don't like the looks of GT-AX6000 and the size of RT-AX88U Pro.

 

[Darkje]

I ordered one.. if no good ill return it. Should be delivered tomorrow. I can play around 30days.

 

[Darkje]

I personally don't like the looks of GT-AX6000 and the size of RT-AX88U Pro.

I actually bought the ac86 for that reason. Then it died due to the power thingies. I bought the gt version crappy same device as ac86u I found out after opening my ac86 for repair. I even had the unit run as a gt but I didn't find any benefits only 160mhz for a few clients.

 

[drinkingbird]

And i believe Asus will enable hw offloading with wire guard.

What leads you to believe that? It requires more than just a firmware or driver tweak, it requires hardware support.

The other issue is that on many routers simply enabling VPN disables hardware acceleration for standard traffic, cutting your entire throughput way down.

To be clear, as of now, all VPN on asus routers is processed by CPU (a CPU which is assisted by AES instruction set), not hardware offloaded to a dedicated ASIC or anything like that. This is going to be your bottleneck. Even worse, it can only use a single CPU core.

 

[Darkje]

What leads you to believe that? It requires more than just a firmware or driver tweak, it requires hardware support.

The other issue is that on many routers simply enabling VPN disables hardware acceleration for standard traffic, cutting your entire throughput way down.

Rumors nothing more

 

[Tech9]

What leads you to believe that?

This:

WG Server test with flowcache bypass

I'm not done backporting Asus' flow cache bypass yet (only server part is done, client is more complicated because of having to port from VPNFusion -> VPN Director), but this is the performance the WG server is able to hit now, with the client running on a Windows laptop...

www.snbforums.com

 

[drinkingbird]

This:

WG Server test with flowcache bypass

I'm not done backporting Asus' flow cache bypass yet (only server part is done, client is more complicated because of having to port from VPNFusion -> VPN Director), but this is the performance the WG server is able to hit now, with the client running on a Windows laptop...

www.snbforums.com

Not really a hardware offload, just allowing it to not slow down your regular internet when VPN is in use. Still not up to the speeds OP is looking for. But at least Asus or Broadcom are starting to catch on. Maybe they'll figure out a way to let it use all CPU cores.

 

[Darkje]

If the ax86u pro don't fulfill my needs then I'll pack it and return it. I'll know in 10 minutes .

It has newer architecture and 4 cores instead of 2. So I'll make a node of my gt. And keep the ac86 for backup. It ain't a bad router.

 

[drinkingbird]

If the ax86u pro don't fulfill my needs then I'll pack it and return it. I'll know in 10 minutes .

It has newer architecture and 4 cores instead of 2. So I'll make a node of my gt. And keep the ac86 for backup. It ain't a bad router.

Unfortunately you'll mostly only be using 1 core, at least for VPN and routing. But let us know the performance with WG. Try the latest beta firmware, I believe the FC bypass has been implemented in 388.2? Not positive on that. That should help your non-VPN traffic hit full speed even when WG is running. I suspect you'll be in the 300-400 range for VPN based on what merlin showed for WG test results in the above quoted post (assuming your provider can support that speed).

Maybe do some research on multiple VPN tunnels and load balancing, might be able to get more performance that way.