AC86U vs EdgeRouter

[roadwrenchtech]

Ok. but what is your ISP WAN speeds? Is it a 1Gig connection?
The routers CPU is what handles actual routing, where as local network traffic on LAN is done by switching. At least, that is what I have read so far.

You are quite right. The only traffic moving "through" the router (in my system) is traffic entering lan from wan or vise versa. My ISP WAN speed is 100Mbs. My point was that the edgerouter does not introduce any lag or delay in anything in my system, and easily handles the tasks it is involved in. In multiple tests I have seen on gigabit isp connections the erx does between 950Mbs and 980Mbs up or down. If you run full up and full down at the same time it drops to around 500Mbs up and 500Mbs down. Bear in mind the X is the baby of the bunch. Step up to the ER-Lite or above and you can realise full up and down simultaneous on gigabit connections.

 

[speedingcheetah]

This is crazy. Stop drinking the Ubiquity cool-aid! No the ER-12 won't do ISP or QoS at 1 gbps. The reason nobody at the Ubnt forum is not helping is they know this and they are fanboys with big F. They refuse the simply fact that Ubiquiti routers are terrible underpowered. Multi-cores likely wont help with better WAN performance since it is very single-core extensive.

Ubnt fans are almost a cult. They keep praising the product and always recommended it to everyone. It is like a religion and they want to spread the "good message" since they now are "blessed". All the BS with "enterprise gear" is so stupid but one of the mantras that are kept used as a argument. Just like all other religion it is these kind of vague statements that are difficult to define or test that are used because it is not directly measurable.

Dig deeper! Use Google and see through the BS. The performance of Ubnt devices are not better than everyone else and does not produce rainbows when using it. And the performance of their routers are terrible unless you turn of all the bells and whistles. Just ask about the performance of OpenVPN on the ER-12 vs RT-AC86. Nobody will answer because nobody wants their "faith" challenged.

Google it and do they research yourself. Nobody in the Ubnt fanbase will help you with this.

Then how about you stop mirroring them and stop just posting things that are just personal opinion and bias...and post actual facts, data, benchmarks, net stats....etc. To prove your claims. Asking for others experience, comparisons to other products and end results IS part of doing research.

You say the Ubuiquiti devices are under powered and can not handle routing at wire speeds. Why? How? Have you had personal experience with this? Any Speedtest.net images to share, or iperf test results to share to back this up?

What if I were to tell u that my previous router, a Asus AC68U hw V 1, with a CPU much less than the ER-12, a 2core 800mhz, handled my 1Gig WAN connection, even if it was just.

There is much more to it than just the raw cpu core count and clock speed though. Architecture and the firmware and processes running on it is a big key role. Ubquiti should have leaner, meaner, more efficient firmware with less overhead, as it dont have flashy Ui elements or cluod connected features and services it has to run....like consumer routers do.

 

[speedingcheetah]

This depends on how many networks you run in your home and whether you run a layer 3 switch or not. A layer 3 device is required when you go from 1 network to another network. It can be a layer 3 switch but if you don't have one then you need to use your router to route between local networks.

1 network for me. That is all that I need since any and all devices that are network capable need to do so to connect to the Internet for what ever reason. Though, I would not mind splitting up things, having just my primary computers on on network, and the others on a different network, but ultimately, it is not that important to me to setup as I see no practical benefits of doing so(no performance increase) other than just making things more complicated than they need to be.

What is the "switch" ports in the Asus AC86U (or any normal home router)? Is that a layer 2 or 3 switch?
I also have a Asus GX-D1081 unmanged switch and some other cheapo TP-LINK unmanaged switch, both, I believe are Layer 2 only.

 

[speedingcheetah]

An acquaintance has just had one of these delivered .

https://omnia.turris.cz/en/

He seems to be quite impressed so far.

That is quite interesting...but, outdated hardware now.
Dual core ARMv7 1.6Ghz.

The AC86U already has that beat with a
Dual core ARMv8 1.8Ghz.

Also, doesn't seem to be sold on a USA site, and international shipping cost is quite high these days.

 

[L&LD]

An acquaintance has just had one of these delivered .

https://omnia.turris.cz/en/

He seems to be quite impressed so far.

I must say, that looks interesting. Will keep my eye on that. Thanks.

Not the version they are currently selling, but possibly an update AX version in the near future.

 

[L&LD]

Then how about you stop mirroring them and stop just posting things that are just personal opinion and bias...and post actual facts, data, benchmarks, net stats....etc. To prove your claims. Asking for others experience, comparisons to other products and end results IS part of doing research.

You say the Ubuiquiti devices are under powered and can not handle routing at wire speeds. Why? How? Have you had personal experience with this? Any Speedtest.net images to share, or ipref3 test results to share to back this up?

What if I were to tell u that my previous router, a Asus AC68U hw V 1, with a CPU much less than the ER-12, a 2core 800mhz, handled my 1Gig WAN connection, even if it was just.

I too had an RT-AC68U (v1) and while it was fine when I had an ISP provided 300/300, it wasn't providing the best I know my network could be when I upgraded to an ISP 1000/1000 connection. The responsiveness of the network took a big hit with that router being used as the main.

The RT-AC3100 that replaced it brought back that responsiveness and then some. With nothing else enabled (running it just as a plain-jane router), but it doesn't make sense to buy for such a use. When I get a fully tested RT-AC86U in, I will be selling the RT-AC3100, if I don't use it as an AP just for 'testing' purposes.

Still, the RT-AC3100 was not hitting the peaks that a pfSense box I built could do, but the network still ran better than through the also plain-jane configured router-only mode of the pfSense box (i5, 16GB RAM, SSD, 2x Intel NICs). The pfsense box just did not give me the responsiveness in my network that the Asus routers do when they're properly matched to the loads they can (easily) handle. I have mostly given up on a pfSense solution as of now.

 

[speedingcheetah]

I too had an RT-AC68U (v1) and while it was fine when I had an ISP provided 300/300, it wasn't providing the best I know my network could be when I upgraded to an ISP 1000/1000 connection. The responsiveness of the network took a big hit with that router being used as the main.

The RT-AC3100 that replaced it brought back that responsiveness and then some. With nothing else enabled (running it just as a plain-jane router), but it doesn't make sense to buy for such a use. When I get a fully tested RT-AC86U in, I will be selling the RT-AC3100, if I don't use it as an AP just for 'testing' purposes.

Still, the RT-AC3100 was not hitting the peaks that a pfSense box I built could do, but the network still ran better than through the also plain-jane configured router-only mode of the pfSense box (i5, 16GB RAM, SSD, 2x Intel NICs). The pfsense box just did not give me the responsiveness in my network that the Asus routers do when they're properly matched to the loads they can (easily) handle. I have mostly given up on a pfSense solution as of now.

I did look into Pfsence, but that seems far more complicated to setup and get working that what I want to do.
Also, their pre-built hardware is incredibly expensive and overpriced. Also, the power cost to run one 24/7 would be higher than a normal router.

 

[L&LD]

I did look into Pfsence, but that seems far more complicated to setup and get working that what I want to do.
Also, their pre-built hardware is incredibly expensive and overpriced. Also, the power cost to run one 24/7 would be higher than a normal router.

Complicated I can usually do, illogical is something that drives me up the wall. pfSense is not logical, at least to me.

The pfSense box I used was just with parts left over. Cost for me was just a few dollars for the 2x Intel NICs. The install of pfSense takes less than 5 minutes, but just left at basic/default settings the network responsiveness would vary from lightning fast, to what happened? Not something I would recommend to any customer, let alone use myself!

While I'll admit I was to blame for not being able to use it stable with anything past the defaults, the main issue above was enough to stop this experiment.

I have a feeling that the 'free' software is highly unoptimized for anything but their prebuilt hardware for a reason. To justify the high prices charged. If, I can only assume, that the network remains stable and also very responsive when used on their hardware.

I might try this to see if that responsiveness improves when I get a chance in the next few weeks.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/01/numbers-dont-lie-its-time-to-build-your-own-router/

 

[speedingcheetah]

Never suggested the AX lineup.

I very much was about to get an AX model, as it has the top cpu (4core 1.8ghz) and a 8 port built in switch...that alone is better than the ER models i was looking at.

However, I then read many reviews and the threads of folks using Merlin firmware on the AX models....and...its no where near as stable as the current AC routers, even performing worse in many cases for the vast majority of users. Also, seems to be draft AX wifi spec. Price, is also too high, but that is to be expected for something so new.

I very much like the Unifi products Ubquiti offers, the central management ability, and in depth control. However, the hardware it self is lacking, underpowered compared to the Edge series. Has not been updated in some time. Also, i realize that I do not actively or frequently monitor or configure my network, I and only one other, on occasion, use it, so, the fancy professional level of a management abilities of Unifi...I would not really use, after the initial setup.

 

[speedingcheetah]

Ran some tests with iperf3 and my Asus AC86U.
Getting around 954 - 976 Mbits/sec in my tests between the 3 computers I normal send files to and from.
Dont see a peep out of the routers CPU.

Any ideas how to use iperf to test WAN to LAN?

 

[Trentors]

Then how about you stop mirroring them and stop just posting things that are just personal opinion and bias...and post actual facts, data, benchmarks, net stats....etc. To prove your claims. Asking for others experience, comparisons to other products and end results IS part of doing research.

You say the Ubuiquiti devices are under powered and can not handle routing at wire speeds. Why? How? Have you had personal experience with this? Any Speedtest.net images to share, or iperf test results to share to back this up?

What if I were to tell u that my previous router, a Asus AC68U hw V 1, with a CPU much less than the ER-12, a 2core 800mhz, handled my 1Gig WAN connection, even if it was just.

There is much more to it than just the raw cpu core count and clock speed though. Architecture and the firmware and processes running on it is a big key role. Ubquiti should have leaner, meaner, more efficient firmware with less overhead, as it dont have flashy Ui elements or cloud connected features and services it has to run....like consumer routers do.

Why? You can just google it. Use the ER-4 as your primary search parameter since it is more popular and has same routing performance (same CPU).
I have tried the USG and it performed fine until you turned on any features. But these numbers are easy to find. Just google it and study yourself instead of relying on what others are saying (and avoid everybody repeating everything eternally).
Reddit is full of people literally asking the same questions over and over again. It is such a waste of time but some people refuse to dig deep them self and always rely on others to do it for them. No asking for advice is hardly research. You can find all these data yourself so what you get is not people willing to do that work for you but instead people who are highly opinionated enough to bother answering (like me).
Anyways.
Yes every router handles 1 gbps WAN fine but not with all the bells and whistles (as I wrote). Think DPI, IPS and QoS. I NEVER wrote it wont do basic routing but IPS (think I mispelled it ISP) or QoS and it wont! It is in Ubiquiti official performance statements:
https://community.ubnt.com/t5/EdgeM...geRouter-software-release-v1-7-0/ba-p/1287631
Yes I agree there is more than clock speed - however you seem the most obsessed about it. The flashy UI elements and cloud connected features does not affect routing performance. First of all the flashy UI is processed on the client (come on!) and the cloud stuff can use one of the dormant cores (and be disabled). But the architecture is exactly it. IPS and QoS on AsusWRT is working with hardware acceleration and it does not on EdgeOS. You already bought into the "cult" it seems with a lot of assumptions on how it works and already using the "consumer" label as it were really relevant here. Go buy the ER-12. You already made up your mind it seems.

 

[speedingcheetah]

Why? You can just google it. Use the ER-4 as your primary search parameter since it is more popular and has same routing performance (same CPU).
I have tried the USG and it performed fine until you turned on any features. But these numbers are easy to find. Just google it and study yourself instead of relying on what others are saying (and avoid everybody repeating everything eternally).
Reddit is full of people literally asking the same questions over and over again. It is such a waste of time but some people refuse to dig deep them self and always rely on others to do it for them. No asking for advice is hardly research. You can find all these data yourself so what you get is not people willing to do that work for you but instead people who are highly opinionated enough to bother answering (like me).
Anyways.
Yes every router handles 1 gbps WAN fine but not with all the bells and whistles (as I wrote). Think DPI, IPS and QoS. I NEVER wrote it wont do basic routing but IPS (think I mispelled it ISP) or QoS and it wont! It is in Ubiquiti official performance statements:
https://community.ubnt.com/t5/EdgeM...geRouter-software-release-v1-7-0/ba-p/1287631
Yes I agree there is more than clock speed - however you seem the most obsessed about it. The flashy UI elements and cloud connected features does not affect routing performance. First of all the flashy UI is processed on the client (come on!) and the cloud stuff can use one of the dormant cores (and be disabled). But the architecture is exactly it. IPS and QoS on AsusWRT is working with hardware acceleration and it does not on EdgeOS. You already bought into the "cult" it seems with a lot of assumptions on how it works and already using the "consumer" label as it were really relevant here. Go buy the ER-12. You already made up your mind it seems.

No. the ER-4 and its reviews are not really fair to compare. It does not have a switch chip and thus would be wired and configured different.

I have googled things..and reviews/stats etc for the ER-12 is very lacking.
Even more so when specifically comparing it to Asus routers and an 1gig WAN connection.
I have found many redit threads that may be of use to me...all F*ing locked and can not comment on to ask further questions on.

If all you are gonna post is "just go google things" and " Ubiquiti is a cult" then kindly stay out of this thread. Or be reported to Admins for trolling or flaming.

 

[sfx2000]

This depends on how many networks you run in your home and whether you run a layer 3 switch or not. A layer 3 device is required when you go from 1 network to another network. It can be a layer 3 switch but if you don't have one then you need to use your router to route between local networks.

Not really - one has to grok the OSI stack, and see that Layer 2 is one thing, and Layer 3 is another - and where to manage the traffic, that's all...

I've seen folks that try to manage Layer 2 at the Layer 3 level, and get into trouble with performance, and the inverse as well, and much of this goes into vendor interpretations, which can be problematic.

Always be explicit with everything - as there can be implicit things if not defined - there's been more that a couple of forum members caught out by this very item.

 

[sfx2000]

An acquaintance has just had one of these delivered .

https://omnia.turris.cz/en/

He seems to be quite impressed so far.

Nice little units - one can do the same thing with a second-hand WRT1900acv2/WRT1200/WRT3200* to the same effect with OpenWRT for Routing, and it's not that much different than the SolidRun ClearFog, or pfSense SG3100 running FreeBSD...

They're all based on the same reference platform 0 Marvell Armada 38x - and it's a hella chip - know this first hand with my past startup and follow thru to the new owners.

 

[sfx2000]

I recently was shown a friends Ubiquity setup who uses Ubuquiti Unifi equipment and is enterprise level robust and "better" than normal consumer grade stuff.

I been doing some research and I am thinking about the EdgeRouter ER-12 model as has the best hardware for my needs. Switch chip, and a 4 core 1ghz cpu. Then use the 86U as my wifi AP.

My question for anyone with more knowledge and experience on these products, will I see any kind of performance gain in routing and switching speeds by using this router instead of my AIO Asus AC86U?

Depends on your needs actually - the UBNT stuff is kinda nice, but not the be-all/end-all... It's not "Better", it's different, and focused outside of the "Joe Six-Pack" basic needs...

Joe's needs are likely covered by the common "Routers" over at BestBuy, Fry's, etc... Plug them in and they generally work, and swap them out every couple of years, as this is typically the turnaround...

Joe doesn't need VLAN's and managed switches and getting into the depths of networking, mostly because it's not his jobby-job - he just wants his email, web, and adult entertainment, along with good WiFi coverage...

Linksys, Netgear, Asus - they have turn-key solutions that solves Joe's problem, and they do it well enough.

Keep your RT-AC86U and be happy - it's a nice router, and in a couple of years, there will be something else that works just as well...

 

[John Davis]

You say the Ubuiquiti devices are under powered and can not handle routing at wire speeds. Why? How? Have you had personal experience with this? Any Speedtest.net images to share, or iperf test results to share to back this up?

I'm running a 1gbs connection on a 'lowly' er-x - and can hit nearly full wirespeed, trick is no QOS/DPI so it can fully leverage the hardware offloading on the mt7621. The cavium based edgerouters (e3lite, er4, er12) still rely heavily on hardware offloading - same as most 'consumer' routers running QCA chips

Ubquiti should have leaner, meaner, more efficient firmware with less overhead, as it dont have flashy Ui elements or cluod connected features and services it has to run....like consumer routers do.

actually it's the other way around - as UBNT are running a much more complete linux there's slightly more overhead (but also more flexibility in what you can run on the router as a result). Remember ASUSwrt is a fork originally of DD-WRT - in my own tests running current openWRT on the er-x there's is definitely slightly better thruput on openWRT vs EdgeOS

 

[speedingcheetah]

Depends on your needs actually - the UBNT stuff is kinda nice, but not the be-all/end-all... It's not "Better", it's different, and focused outside of the "Joe Six-Pack" basic needs...

Joe's needs are likely covered by the common "Routers" over at BestBuy, Fry's, etc... Plug them in and they generally work, and swap them out every couple of years, as this is typically the turnaround...

Joe doesn't need VLAN's and managed switches and getting into the depths of networking, mostly because it's not his jobby-job - he just wants his email, web, and adult entertainment, along with good WiFi coverage...

Linksys, Netgear, Asus - they have turn-key solutions that solves Joe's problem, and they do it well enough.

Keep your RT-AC86U and be happy - it's a nice router, and in a couple of years, there will be something else that works just as well...

Please to talk down in such a condescending and pessimistic manor.
Don't u think I know all that already...
I am not "Joe". I would not even know about this site, let alone be asking questions if i was "Joe".
While it has been some time since i have manged and setup enterprise equipment, does not mean that just because I have a home network, and not some huge cooperate office to manage, dont mean that there is any issue with using hardware designed for big and better things in the home. If for anything, just to gain experience in it.
I would have bought the ER-12 already and given it a try, but it is not for sale locally, or on Amazon (by Amazon). Only by Ubiquiti direct and they have a 15% restock fee and have to pay return shipping for a Return. So just buying one to try is a good risk there. And I wont buy it until I have enough confidence it is worth that risk. I have read that even the USG with its 2 core 500mhz cpu can do 1gig WAN fine, for most. But its a mixed bag.

 

[John Davis]

I have read that even the USG with its 2 core 500mhz cpu can do 1gig WAN fine, for most. But its a mixed bag.

'original' USG is same chipset as the ER3lite - so if you don't want all the security features of the USG (and the pretty management console) the er3lite will again run 1gig connections fine - plenty of people I know are using them for gigabit fibre connections here in NZ happily. Main downside is no integrated switch, and the 3lite has a reputation for killing the internal flash memory (I've personally replaced and reloaded a 3lite for a friend after it's flash went south).

Again, like the er4 & er12 you need to be aware that DPI or QOS will disable hardware offloading (and hence make it unable to route full 1gbs) - if you don't need QOS or DPI they'll be fine

 

[coxhaus]

Not really - one has to grok the OSI stack, and see that Layer 2 is one thing, and Layer 3 is another - and where to manage the traffic, that's all...

I've seen folks that try to manage Layer 2 at the Layer 3 level, and get into trouble with performance, and the inverse as well, and much of this goes into vendor interpretations, which can be problematic.

Always be explicit with everything - as there can be implicit things if not defined - there's been more that a couple of forum members caught out by this very item.

I don't know what you don't understand. What I said is true. You know I am talking about networks not VLANs as stated by me.

PS
You know I run 4 networks on my local LAN. I will never run VLANs without assigning a network to the VLAN. I always work at layer 3. I have no issues working at layer 3. To me it is a lot better than layer 2. But I have the skill set to do it.

 

[speedingcheetah]

'original' USG is same chipset as the ER3lite - so if you don't want all the security features of the USG (and the pretty management console) the er3lite will again run 1gig connections fine - plenty of people I know are using them for gigabit fibre connections here in NZ happily. Main downside is no integrated switch, and the 3lite has a reputation for killing the internal flash memory (I've personally replaced and reloaded a 3lite for a friend after it's flash went south).

Again, like the er4 & er12 you need to be aware that DPI or QOS will disable hardware offloading (and hence make it unable to route full 1gbs) - if you don't need QOS or DPI they'll be fine

QOS is only useful to prioritize traffic on a saturated network with many active users. Or for low bandwidth availability situations. I have only 2 users on my network, less than 20 devices, and hardley ever saturate my 1gig connection. At the most, I would have several torrents running, while media streaming from Youtube Hulu etc, and large file downloads, but those are done very fast, if the server I am downloading them from can even break 500megs (most i see are 350 to 550 megs) so i often still have plenty of bandwidth to spare.

er4 & er12 you need to be aware that DPI or QOS will disable hardware offloading

Not according to this: https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/arti...-Deep-Packet-Inspection-Engine-for-EdgeRouter

Says "Compared to the expensive and slow DPI methods in today’s router market, Ubiquiti’s proprietary DPI tool integrates with EdgeRouter’s hardware offload feature. "

My Asus has some sort of Traffic Anyaysis options. I have never messed with it. I would guess that uses DPI as well? No idea if it is HW offloaded though. Ill have to enable it and do some tests. It says that it only "collects network stats every hour on the hour".