AC86U vs EdgeRouter

[speedingcheetah]

uy? If they gave them free I might use them, to spend my money for one is inconceivable!

Direct response from Ubquiti:

The reason this changed - from sending out Beta units for free to the EA store several years ago - is simple: the vast majority of units sent out for evaluation/test for free never had any hard data returned to UBNT by those who received them. In one case there were actually more than 100 units sent out, and IIRC there were less than 10 responses sent to UBNT about them. So they changed to the EA store where anyone who wants to experience and test a brand new unit can buy one, so they have some skin in the game.



And it's been very successful. In most cases the units in EA sell out in a couple of days or even sooner - one recent device I know about sold out in 10 minutes. And the feedback levels have been much better, both in quantity and quality. This accomplishes both getting in-the-field testers to try out the units, and to make sure those who do really intend to do serious testing and give useful feedback. So don't expect UBNT to change this to some other plan - the current one is working just fine...

Jim

 

[L&LD]

Of course, it's been successful to charge for them. No argument there.

The rates of how fast something sells out is not an indication of its value.

 

[speedingcheetah]

The rates of how fast something sells out is not an indication of its value.

Perhaps not, but if u read further, the point they make is the return of contact/feedback for each unit sent out is FAR greater than before where units were free. That is what matters.

 

[L&LD]

Perhaps not, but if u read further, the point they make is the return of contact/feedback for each unit sent out is FAR greater than before where units were free. That is what matters.

I read the entire post. Doesn't change my valuation of the product, as-is.

 

[wojowojo16]

This is crazy. Stop drinking the Ubiquity cool-aid! No the ER-12 won't do ISP or QoS at 1 gbps. The reason nobody at the Ubnt forum is not helping is they know this and they are fanboys with big F. They refuse the simply fact that Ubiquiti routers are terrible underpowered. Multi-cores likely wont help with better WAN performance since it is very single-core extensive.

Ubnt fans are almost a cult. They keep praising the product and always recommended it to everyone. It is like a religion and they want to spread the "good message" since they now are "blessed". All the BS with "enterprise gear" is so stupid but one of the mantras that are kept used as a argument. Just like all other religion it is these kind of vague statements that are difficult to define or test that are used because it is not directly measurable.

Dig deeper! Use Google and see through the BS. The performance of Ubnt devices are not better than everyone else and does not produce rainbows when using it. And the performance of their routers are terrible unless you turn of all the bells and whistles. Just ask about the performance of OpenVPN on the ER-12 vs RT-AC86. Nobody will answer because nobody wants their "faith" challenged.

Google it and do they research yourself. Nobody in the Ubnt fanbase will help you with this.

I have been an ASUS fanboy for years, all I ever ran. Recently at my firehouse we upgraded our wifi and used some UNIFI AP PRO's with Netgear 24 port POE switch and a Netgear Router (the ASUS Router and TP Link AP's weren't cutting it anymore) and wifi performance was wonderful.

I moved ~ 2 year ago to a larger house and used my trusty AC87U for a few months, then switched to AC66U Maybe with AI Mesh (either side of house) with 1 TP link POE AP in far corner of garage. Worked ok, but would have issues.

I scrapped that entire setup and went with Unifi. I have there Gateway, 24 Port POE Switch, 1 AP in 2nd floor hallway for House, 1 AP in far corner of Garage, and 1 In Wall AP in my sunroom. Great wifi everywhere, system has been robust, reliable, easy to manage, etc.

As for Performance, the USG is fine unless you turn on QOS, DPI, etc. Then yes, there are limitations. Absolutely it is frustrating, but its also a $130 Router with some pretty nice features. I'll be honest, going from 75/75 FIOS to GIGe, I noticed LITTLE TO NO DIFFERENCE in my everyday browsing or streaming. Only difference is downloading files. I can turn on QOS, and be limited to ~ 100Mbps up/down, but in all reality my "internet" experience is the same.

I've also been able to setup separate networks for my HOME and IOT stuff (VLANs, SSIDs) and have some firewall rules in place to deny traffic from IOT -> Home. Not something that can really be done with consumer grade, and putting IOT on a guest network isn't the same. I can tag VLAN's on my Switch, etc.

ASUS has been very very good to me for many many many years, and for a home router I'd recommend for anyone. As for me, I outgrew it....am I a fanboy of Ubiquiti? I certainly like it, its good stuff.

 

[L&LD]

I have been an ASUS fanboy for years, all I ever ran. Recently at my firehouse we upgraded our wifi and used some UNIFI AP PRO's with Netgear 24 port POE switch and a Netgear Router (the ASUS Router and TP Link AP's weren't cutting it anymore) and wifi performance was wonderful.

I moved ~ 2 year ago to a larger house and used my trusty AC87U for a few months, then switched to AC66U Maybe with AI Mesh (either side of house) with 1 TP link POE AP in far corner of garage. Worked ok, but would have issues.

I scrapped that entire setup and went with Unifi. I have there Gateway, 24 Port POE Switch, 1 AP in 2nd floor hallway for House, 1 AP in far corner of Garage, and 1 In Wall AP in my sunroom. Great wifi everywhere, system has been robust, reliable, easy to manage, etc.

As for Performance, the USG is fine unless you turn on QOS, DPI, etc. Then yes, there are limitations. Absolutely it is frustrating, but its also a $130 Router with some pretty nice features. I'll be honest, going from 75/75 FIOS to GIGe, I noticed LITTLE TO NO DIFFERENCE in my everyday browsing or streaming. Only difference is downloading files. I can turn on QOS, and be limited to ~ 100Mbps up/down, but in all reality my "internet" experience is the same.

I've also been able to setup separate networks for my HOME and IOT stuff (VLANs, SSIDs) and have some firewall rules in place to deny traffic from IOT -> Home. Not something that can really be done with consumer grade, and putting IOT on a guest network isn't the same. I can tag VLAN's on my Switch, etc.

ASUS has been very very good to me for many many many years, and for a home router I'd recommend for anyone. As for me, I outgrew it....am I a fanboy of Ubiquiti? I certainly like it, its good stuff.

Thank you for the counterpoints!

My network usage is a little more demanding than yours (but, not by much) and I would easily see a 10x reduction in raw throughput. I am also more aware of the responsiveness of a given network than you seem to be, QoS is not optional, it is a requirement to provide the fastest responding network possible while simultaneously offering the highest throughput too.

I get that Ubiquiti is reliable, easy to use and robust. The performance deficit incurred at Gbps ISP levels though is too much when the additional (I feel, 'essential') services are also used or turned on.

 

[Trentors]

I have been an ASUS fanboy for years, all I ever ran. Recently at my firehouse we upgraded our wifi and used some UNIFI AP PRO's with Netgear 24 port POE switch and a Netgear Router (the ASUS Router and TP Link AP's weren't cutting it anymore) and wifi performance was wonderful.

I moved ~ 2 year ago to a larger house and used my trusty AC87U for a few months, then switched to AC66U Maybe with AI Mesh (either side of house) with 1 TP link POE AP in far corner of garage. Worked ok, but would have issues.

I scrapped that entire setup and went with Unifi. I have there Gateway, 24 Port POE Switch, 1 AP in 2nd floor hallway for House, 1 AP in far corner of Garage, and 1 In Wall AP in my sunroom. Great wifi everywhere, system has been robust, reliable, easy to manage, etc.

As for Performance, the USG is fine unless you turn on QOS, DPI, etc. Then yes, there are limitations. Absolutely it is frustrating, but its also a $130 Router with some pretty nice features. I'll be honest, going from 75/75 FIOS to GIGe, I noticed LITTLE TO NO DIFFERENCE in my everyday browsing or streaming. Only difference is downloading files. I can turn on QOS, and be limited to ~ 100Mbps up/down, but in all reality my "internet" experience is the same.

I've also been able to setup separate networks for my HOME and IOT stuff (VLANs, SSIDs) and have some firewall rules in place to deny traffic from IOT -> Home. Not something that can really be done with consumer grade, and putting IOT on a guest network isn't the same. I can tag VLAN's on my Switch, etc.

ASUS has been very very good to me for many many many years, and for a home router I'd recommend for anyone. As for me, I outgrew it....am I a fanboy of Ubiquiti? I certainly like it, its good stuff.

I have tried the USG + AC Pro setup because I bought into the hype and found it very limited compared to my old RT-AC3200 I had back then. The Wifi performance was just objectively lower even on 2x2 clients. I measured around 350 mbps which is also in line with SMB reviews. The current GT-AC5300 I have now can get up to 500+ on the same client. And on 3x3 devices it difference is higher. But the routing performance is also bad if you enable any feature as you also mention.

You may not notice any difference in daily use and that is good for you but we hardly know how extensive your usage is so the only objectively correct thing to do is using tools to measure the speed. Just compare your AC87U with the performance of the Pro's. Even though the AC87U is NOT a good router it should seriously outperform them.

I not trying to be mean but I always see these "excuses" for using Unifi. Like this where you are saying "it feels the same". And you don't need IPS, QOS and DPI etc. But no matter what, the performance is lower and it is a compromise you have to live with if you are going down that path. I could not live with this limitation and I don't understand where all this Unifi love is coming from when the products have so much lower performance.

 

[speedingcheetah]

I have tried the USG + AC Pro setup because I bought into the hype and found it very limited compared to my old RT-AC3200 I had back then. The Wifi performance was just objectively lower even on 2x2 clients. I measured around 350 mbps which is also in line with SMB reviews. The current GT-AC5300 I have now can get up to 500+ on the same client. And on 3x3 devices it difference is higher. But the routing performance is also bad if you enable any feature as you also mention.

You may not notice any difference in daily use and that is good for you but we hardly know how extensive your usage is so the only objectively correct thing to do is using tools to measure the speed. Just compare your AC87U with the performance of the Pro's. Even though the AC87U is NOT a good router it should seriously outperform them.

I not trying to be mean but I always see these "excuses" for using Unifi. Like this where you are saying "it feels the same". And you don't need IPS, QOS and DPI etc. But no matter what, the performance is lower and it is a compromise you have to live with if you are going down that path. I could not live with this limitation and I don't understand where all this Unifi love is coming from when the products have so much lower performance.

Well, this thread has gotten off topic...lolz.

It WAS supposed to be comparing the performance of the EDGE Router 12 to the Asus router....

Yes...yes, it seems the current Unifi product line gateway and perhaps wifi aps are infact, lower performance than a single top end Asus AIO router..but, that seems to be changing, with the new AIO Ubquiti device called Dream. Routing power, wifi power (better AC wifi chip than my 86U).

I have decided to hang off buying into the current Unifi products until the Dream comes out, as that product is best suited for what I want. In the mean time, I am getting a 10G NIC for my desktop, and a Thunderbolt 3 to 10G adapter for my Intel NUC, and a Asus 2port 10G + 8port 1G unmanaged switch. (I wanted a 3 or 4 port 10G switch, but they are still really highly priced around $600, this 2p one was $200 and sold at local MicroCenter.)

 

[Trentors]

Yes the dream machine could be the thing Unifi needs to stay competitive (and maybe hw accelerated IPS/QoS) so it is going to be interesting to see where it goes.

And they DO have proper APs these days with their HD APs. But they are not exactly cheap.

 

[speedingcheetah]

So...I ended up getting a deal on a ER-4. Don't need the switch on the ER-12 anymore since I now have an Asus XG-U2008 unmanaged switch that has 2 10G ports and 8 1G ports, so all my wired devices are hooked up to that now.

Having enabled HWoffload for everything, and having DPI enabled....the ER-4 does in fact handle my 1Gig ISP symmetrical (and simultaneous) connection fine. Same speeds reported with a direct wall jack to computer test, 920-940megs up and down, with bursts a bit higher at times. CPU barely shows any activity.

I reset and put my Asus AC86U into AP mode and have that as a Wifi AP...for now. For some reason, downloading files from LAN file share to wifi laptop tops out at 35MB's where as before, when the Asus was the main router for everything, I saw speeds of around 50MBs, and uploading files to a LAN device gets that ~40 to 50MB's. Not sure why that is happening, I did try mess around with the settings on the Asus, but I had set it up the exact same way I had it before, same exact settings (i took screen shots before hand). Probably will pick up a Ubquiti Unifi NanoHD AP at some point and give the 86U to a buddy.

With the ER as my main router and now having things split up with switch and a AP, I have noticed a positive difference overall. Websites and videos load a bit faster, smoother, everything just feels more fluid and over all, consistent in performance. Even over wifi, devices just act smoother and zippier. Apps on my phone like FB or Twitter, would sometimes lag a bit to load up things, smooth as butter now. It has only been 2 days though...I have always power cycled my Asus routers every month as things did seem to just slow down a bit after a while, and power cycle seemed to "refresh" things a bit. But even then, things didn't feel quite this zippy.

And just because Ubquiti (or others) are "enterprise" or "business" grade hardware, I still say that is not an excuse to make a product with a very ugly, outdated, and un-intuitive GUI setup. Its freaking 2019, not 1999. I can see why folks much prefer the CLI to configure the EdgeRouter products as the GUI is just terrible. I ended up using CLI for most of what I needed to setup, which, was just the very basics. I did get UMNS setup in Ubuntu, that does provide a much more appealing GUI interface and management option. However, it is very much geared towards enterprise/business deployments in its design and usability (no surprise there). I got the Unifi controller server also installed, for my future AP. Unfi is quite similar UMNS in how it looks and works, but is more geared towards the pro home user, but I would not say it is as simple and straight forward as consumer routers like Asus or Netgear firmwares is, again, no surprise.

So far, I am impressed. I was gonna wait for the Unifi Dream Machine to come out of Early Access, but who knows when or if that will happen. And from what I have read in the beta forums, the firmware on it is a ground up new OS, not the same as on the other Unifi hardware....and it is very much in beta condition with many issues and bugs.

 

[roadwrenchtech]

Good to hear your liking the edgerouter. My ER-x has been rock solid reliable, and I too experienced the zero lag, 1ms ping zippyness when going that route. I have two more ERXs on other installs and they too are fast and reliable.

 

[coxhaus]

I know what you guys feel with the network feeling more fluid with separates. I see it with my Cisco separates especially after my layer 3 switch. It is the network as a whole not just testing 1 client.

 

[L&LD]

I get that feeling too with each new(est) Asus router I've used ('N66U, 'AC66U, 'AC68U, 'AC3100, 'AC5300, 'AC86U).

And lately, that feeling has stayed even with many/all features enabled including a handful of scripts too, running on USB 2.0 storage speeds on my RT-AC3100.

Of course, the 'AC3100 can't handle 1Gbps up/down ISP speeds, but it still feels fast up to about 784/784 Mbps up/down.

I will try one of these 'enterprise' router solutions one day. But there are obvious responsiveness improvements that I see in each firmware release for the routers I use long-term too. The latest being, not surprisingly, 384.10 from RMerlin.

Btw, with all it is asked to handle, the RT-AC3100 can still give me 1ms ping times too. The RT-AC86U I briefly had while I was setting it up last week for a customer was at a different level once again.

 

[coxhaus]

1 ms ping time is very good if you are going out on the net. I wish I could get that low of latency. I am on the outskirts of Austin and my ping times suck. 15 years ago back in the old DSL days I remember 9 ms ping times but now days I am twice that using cable.

 

[L&LD]

1 ms ping time is very good if you are going out on the net. I wish I could get that low of latency. I am on the outskirts of Austin and my ping times suck. 15 years ago back in the old DSL days I remember 9 ms ping times but now days I am twice that using cable.

Cable is not very good for ping times. Yes, I am getting a reported (speedtest.net) between 0 and 1 ms depending on the time of day on the 'net with a Fibre connection. Currently 1Gbps up/down. But even at 150/150, it was the same (a couple of years ago now), also on Fibre back then too.

 

[speedingcheetah]

I am still bugged that my 86U cant do more than ~20-35MB's transferring files from my LAN computer Windows SNB shares over 5ghz now that it is in AP mode and connected to my switch. Something is odd. My laptop a Dell Precision 5510 and Intel AC8260 2x2 card should do better than that and was when everything was just done via the Asus router.

I am in a very crowded environment, a large apartment complex. There are no free channels. There are at least 35 to 55 separate wifi networks detectable at anytime anywhere in my unit. (several at least ~15, of those are those damn Xfinity WiFi open hotspots cause many folks here have Comcast Internet and routers) Despite this, my unit itself is small enough that I am never that far away from my own AP, so speed has not been much an issue. I only use 2.4g for my Wyze cams, and everything else is on 5ghz, ch40, 80mhz.

I am gona pick up a Unifi NanoHD AP and see how that compares to the AC86U as far as wifi speeds.
I have had issues in the past with new firmware on the Asus causing wifi slowness.

 

[L&LD]

I am still bugged that my 86U cant do more than ~20-35MB's transferring files from my LAN computer Windows SNB shares over 5ghz now that it is in AP mode and connected to my switch. Something is odd. My laptop a Dell Precision 5510 and Intel AC8260 2x2 card should do better than that and was when everything was just done via the Asus router.

I am in a very crowded environment, a large apartment complex. There are no free channels. There are at least 35 to 55 separate wifi networks detectable at anytime anywhere in my unit. (several at least ~15, of those are those damn Xfinity WiFi open hotspots cause many folks here have Comcast Internet and routers) Despite this, my unit itself is small enough that I am never that far away from my own AP, so speed has not been much an issue. I only use 2.4g for my Wyze cams, and everything else is on 5ghz, ch40, 80mhz.

I am gona pick up a Unifi NanoHD AP and see how that compares to the AC86U as far as wifi speeds.
I have had issues in the past with new firmware on the Asus causing wifi slowness.

You may want to see this post.

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/ac86u-smb-tweaking.44729/

It may not help in your network environment with it being so crowded (WiFi is shared userspace), but then again it may be what helps too.

 

[speedingcheetah]

You may want to see this post.

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/ac86u-smb-tweaking.44729/

It may not help in your network environment with it being so crowded (WiFi is shared userspace), but then again it may be what helps too.

IDK about that....I don't even know how to use those scripts or change things on the Asus on a code level.
I may be blind, but I can't seem to find the CLI button or option to mess with all that.....I swear I seen it at some point, buried in some setting page, though I would thing it would be under System or Tools.

But anyway, I just got a Unifi NanoHD. And after getting it setup, i am getting pretty much the same results.
So it must be something else in this segmented component setup that is causing the WLAN to LAN slow down. As, again, when I put back my Asus 86U to be the main router and AP, transfers from LAN computers are faster. O well, I don't often transfer very large files over wifi, so the bit of lower speed is not that big a deal in the big picture as the positives of my new setup overall, are greater.

I can also mount the AP in a better place, on a wall in a more central spot of my unit. Though, where my Asus was covered the whole unit and then some just fine.

Also a thing i discovered, the NanoHD alows use of ALL the channels. 100 to 144 in particular. Those the ASUS lacks. can use then in 20,40, or 80mhz. I have it in 80mhz and am always topping out the speeds There are NO other wifi APs using these channels anywhere in my entire complex. Sweet. Yes....i know DFS channels can sometimes be wonky when it detects Radar...or something like that. I did see a alert message from Unfi Controler "radar detects. dfs waiting..or something. but has not come back.

I did try enabling VHT160mhz, but it did not like that as spit an error and ended up doing a fall back to channel 386 40 mhz...maybe a bug or it can't do 160mhz even though the fimrware has the option. No matter, I have no devices that can make use of that.

 

[L&LD]

IDK about that....I don't even know how to use those scripts or change things on the Asus on a code level.
I may be blind, but I can't seem to find the CLI button or option to mess with all that.....I swear I seen it at some point, buried in some setting page, though I would thing it would be under System or Tools.

But anyway, I just got a Unifi NanoHD. And after getting it setup, i am getting pretty much the same results.
So it must be something else in this segmented component setup that is causing the WLAN to LAN slow down. As, again, when I put back my Asus 86U to be the main router and AP, transfers from LAN computers are faster. O well, I don't often transfer very large files over wifi, so the bit of lower speed is not that big a deal in the big picture as the positives of my new setup overall, are greater.

I can also mount the AP in a better place, on a wall in a more central spot of my unit. Though, where my Asus was covered the whole unit and then some just fine.

Also a thing i discovered, the NanoHD alows use of ALL the channels. 100 to 144 in particular. Those the ASUS lacks. can use then in 20,40, or 80mhz. I have it in 80mhz and am always topping out the speeds There are NO other wifi APs using these channels anywhere in my entire complex. Sweet. Yes....i know DFS channels can sometimes be wonky when it detects Radar...or something like that. I did see a alert message from Unfi Controler "radar detects. dfs waiting..or something. but has not come back.

I did try enabling VHT160mhz, but it did not like that as spit an error and ended up doing a fall back to channel 386 40 mhz...maybe a bug or it can't do 160mhz even though the fimrware has the option. No matter, I have no devices that can make use of that.

I am in the process of documenting my change from the RT-AC3100 to the RT-AC86U on my network and I'm currently testing 'todays' best channels.

So far, the worst is 7.6Mbps download on Channel 11. The best is 118 on Channel 1. This is on the 2.4GHz band, of course. With a 1Gbps up/down ISP connection.

Can you adjust the Channels manually? Try each one. It can make a big difference.

 

[speedingcheetah]

I am in the process of documenting my change from the RT-AC3100 to the RT-AC86U on my network and I'm currently testing 'todays' best channels.

So far, the worst is 7.6Mbps download on Channel 11. The best is 118 on Channel 1. This is on the 2.4GHz band, of course. With a 1Gbps up/down ISP connection.

Can you adjust the Channels manually? Try each one. It can make a big difference.

Yes of course u can set the channel manualy. And believe me...there is NO good or unused channels to chose from. (Except for 5ghz 100 to 144. no one has an AP that can do those.) Otherwise, I have been using 2.4g chan 10(20mhz) and 5g chan 40 (80mhz). Those chans seemed to be the "best"/most stable in my personal tests.

If only my 3 Wyze cams supported 5ghz, I would just disable 2.4 band entirely.

With dual band routers now the norm for years now, pretty much everyone has one and in a large apartment complex, it gets ridiculously crowded airwaves. And throw in Comcast/Xfinity and their annoying gateway/modem devices, that broadcast the users wifi AND the Xfinity WiFi hotspot.....my brain is being cooked with wifi radiation!!