AC86U vs EdgeRouter

[speedingcheetah]

I recently was shown a friends Ubiquity setup who uses Ubuquiti Unifi equipment and is enterprise level robust and "better" than normal consumer grade stuff.

I been doing some research and I am thinking about the EdgeRouter ER-12 model as has the best hardware for my needs. Switch chip, and a 4 core 1ghz cpu. Then use the 86U as my wifi AP.

My question for anyone with more knowledge and experience on these products, will I see any kind of performance gain in routing and switching speeds by using this router instead of my AIO Asus AC86U?

(I have posted over on the Ubuiti forums, but the community there seem to not care to respond or be any-sort of helpful)

I have 1Gig fiber connection from my ISP.
WAN speed test show 934/939 Mbps consistently through router (which is the same as direct connect ISP wall jack to computer).
All my interior cables are CAT6A and all weird clients are Gig NICs.
With my 86U, when i run speed test/stress tests or download large files for WAN to LAN testing, I observe the Core1 of the 86U jumps up to around 90% while Core2 assumedly handles background tasks and stays in the 5 to 20% range during these load tests.

The 86U CPU is 2 core 1.8ghz and seems to handle my 1Gig WAN connection fine. But the EdgeRouter ER-12 is a 4 core 1Ghz CPU. More cores, but lower clock speed.
So, how would this CPU difference affect WAN to LAN performance?

LAN to LAN. The 86U CPU shows no usage when I transfer files among my 5 wired devices, I surmise do to the hardware off load to the switch chip. I get 109MB's to 119MB's transfer speeds(Win 10) thanks to Jumbo Frame enabled both on the 86U and the NICs. So it seems the 86U is also just fine for LAN switching at wire speeds. I am not certain if the ER-12 supports enable Jumbo Frames though.
So, would the ER-12 perform the same as the 86U for LAN to LAN performance?

Since I would have a separate router then separate WiFi AP setup, instead of a AIO device, would that affect WiFi to LAN/LAN to Wifi speeds? I can get about 45 to 75MB's transfer speeds with my 86U and my laptop currently. I would think that having the wifi chips right on the same board.device that also routers the wireline traffic would indeed be faster/more efficient then having to first send packets through the AP, to separate router then to device.

I also think that the AC86U has newer chipsets than the ER-12???

Any further insight/thoughts/opinions on comparing Asus to Ubiquiti or moving over to "enterprise grade" network hardware is very much welcome.

 

[L&LD]

A discrete router and separate WiFi AP would be ideal, all else being equal. Not only should it be better, if the AP was located optimally for the most used location/devices (as it should be, anyways, of course) it should be giving significantly better performance for those (near) devices too.

The switched performance of any semi-modern hardware will be effectively the same. Any differences will be within margins of error.

I have big doubts that the 4 core 1GHz CPU used by the ER-12 to be capable enough to handle anything beyond basic routing though, at Gbps speeds.

The RT-AC86U is said to handle Gbps speeds with the many features it offers enabled. That would be hard for me to give up (along with the RMerlin firmware too, of course).

I think this may be a sideways upgrade in many respects for you at this point.

If you can jump in with both feet and get a full enterprise level network installed, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

As you will be using some/most of the equipment you already have though? I think I would be saving my dollars right now.

 

[speedingcheetah]

A discrete router and separate WiFi AP would be ideal, all else being equal. Not only should it be better, if the AP was located optimally for the most used location/devices (as it should be, anyways, of course) it should be giving significantly better performance for those (near) devices too.

Wifi Range is not an issue for me. I live in a single level, 2 bed small apartment in the corner of a large apartment complex. So all my wifi devices are always quite close to the wifi ap. Router is centrally located already and I can pick up my wifi several units ways from me.

I am mainly considered as to raw performance gains/losses with moving to a EdgeRouter to handle wired devices. I do want a more robust and secure network setup and I have been told by many that Ubiquiti products is the best way to go.

 

[coxhaus]

I would rather have separate components than all in one. When the new wireless standards are out it seems way better to only replace the wireless devices rather than gut your network and start over with your whole network.

I think you are over emphasizing enterprise. Enterprise, think high end Cisco or etc, more than you would spend for a home unit.

PS
WiFi is a problem for me as I cannot cover my house with one unit.

 

[speedingcheetah]

Enterprise, think high end Cisco or etc, more than you would spend for a home unit.

I dont want a rack mount setup with loud fan cooled routing equipment etc.
I work for a IT Parts re-seller and refurbish severs and networking equipment all day long.
Those things are WAY over kill (and way more complicated) for my home needs.
I also dont realy like Cisco equipment.
They were in the tech news not to long ago of hinve some severe vulnerabilities they left unpatched for years and still are not patched..

 

[L&LD]

Wifi Range is not an issue for me. I live in a single level, 2 bed small apartment in the corner of a large apartment complex. So all my wifi devices are always quite close to the wifi ap. Router is centrally located already and I can pick up my wifi several units ways from me.

I am mainly considered as to raw performance gains/losses with moving to a EdgeRouter to handle wired devices. I do want a more robust and secure network setup and I have been told by many that Ubiquiti products is the best way to go.

I don't believe you'll see anything to be worth the cost of the ER-12 in your situation then.

I even have a suspicion that the performance or at least the experience may be a little (or a lot) worse.

What do you use on your RT-AC86U besides the defaults?

How many devices are on your network (wired/wireless)?

For further responsiveness, performance, 'security' or hardening of your network for the cost of a USB drive (which you may already have), I would suggest looking into the scripts by thelonelycoder (Diversion), the FreshJR QOS script and the scripts within the amtm script by thelonelycoder too such as Skynet, YazFi, Stubby DNS, or dnscrypt, and the included utilities such as the ability to give your router a swap file and much more.

The ER-12 may already have or soon catch up to what the Asus/RMerlin based community here already has, but until I see performance figures for that seemingly weak CPU, I can't seriously consider it either way.

 

[coxhaus]

I agree high end Cisco gear is very noisy. I worked with it for many years. You forgot about power requirements. The cost for power will be more than your ASUS router.

Cisco is pretty good at fixing vulnerabilities or having work arounds. I would say much better than most.

 

[speedingcheetah]

I don't believe you'll see anything to be worth the cost of the ER-12 in your situation then.

The cost of the ER-12 is only $250. The current top Asus Router is AX1000 is $449. or the AX88U $349. And those are still consumer grade hardware.

What do you use on your RT-AC86U besides the defaults?

How many devices are on your network (wired/wireless)?

I have all but the wifi and normal routing features and DDNS disabled. Don't need or want the MEsh, AI protect, Cloud disk etc...crap running.

I have 7 wired devices. 1 of which is my Emby media server/DVR and torrent down loader(a Intel NUC). High end custom desktop, laptop most often connect via wire, a HDHomeRUN Prime, ChromeCast Ultra, and on a basic switch in other room, a VOIP adapter and my roomates older crap laptop.
9 Wifi devices, my Dell Precision laptop(AC card), 4 smartphones, 3 Wyze cams, my older Intel NUC(used for media streaming to livingroom tv)

 

[L&LD]

The cost of the ER-12 is only $250. The current top Asus Router is AX1000 is $449. or the AX88U $349. And those are still consumer grade hardware.



I have all but the wifi and normal routing features and DDNS disabled. Don't need or want the MEsh, AI protect, Cloud disk etc...crap running.

I have 7 wired devices. 1 of which is my Emby media server/DVR and torrent down loader(a Intel NUC). High end custom desktop, laptop most often connect via wire, a HDHomeRUN Prime, ChromeCast Ultra, and on a basic switch in other room, a VOIP adapter and my roomates older crap laptop.
9 Wifi devices, my Dell Precision laptop(AC card), 4 smartphones, 3 Wyze cams, my older Intel NUC(used for media streaming to livingroom tv)

Never suggested the AX lineup.

Besides, the RT-AC86U you have is very close in performance, if not superior to those anyway, in your usage.

The less than 20 devices you currently have are not putting your current hardware in any great stress either.

The price difference from the 'enterprise' ER-12 to a consumer AX88U or AX11000 may seem excessive, but you are then neglecting to factor in the radio/antennae too which will put the router only ER-12 in a much higher price bracket very quickly to match the wireless performance that Asus nominally offers.

You can get an ER-12 and see what, if any benefits it offers you in your network and actual usage, but do so knowing this is more than likely to be a case of seeing if the grass is greener on the other side.

Actual performance benefits will be minimal to none as I see it.

Do give a thought to trying the scripts I've mentioned (before the ER-12, if possible, to fully get used to how the network responds).

They are an easy and very inexpensive (you do have a spare USB drive, correct?) way to show a noticeable difference in your network for a few minutes spent installing a couple of scripts, formatting a USB drive and rebooting the router a couple of more times after that too.

The Edgerouter lineup has many advocates that shout its praises. I have yet to be convinced it is anything more than great marketing at this point. If the people that recommended this path to you can give you links you can pass to us too that show their routing superiority in an actual home network setup, I'd be happy to change my mind then.

 

[speedingcheetah]

For further responsiveness, performance, 'security' or hardening of your network for the cost of a USB drive (which you may already have), I would suggest looking into the scripts by thelonelycoder (Diversion), the FreshJR QOS script and the scripts within the amtm script by thelonelycoder too such as Skynet, YazFi, Stubby DNS, or dnscrypt, and the included utilities such as the ability to give your router a swap file and much more.

Looked at those. Dont want or need those features. Or to start adding in things to my already stable Asus router. Looking for all integrated things.
Ublock origin in web browser works fine.
Dont need QOS.
Dont use VPN (on the router level) or Guest wifi.
My ISPs DNS is local and the fastest(3 miles from me), though, I have used Alternate DNS that does adblocking, and CloudFlare DNS.

The Ubuquiti and other enterprise hardware and firmware, firewall etcs are claimed to be far more robust, secure, and more updated than anything any consumer unit has.
And I dont have to mess with adding in things to it, just do the initial config, and not touch it again as it auto updates firmware. The Unifi products are centrally manged with a control server and software. GUi is advanced but easy to manage and is geared towards more basic users. The Edge products, however, are their more advanced hardware with different management software, much more enterprise like. So i have been told and read in reviews etc.

 

[L&LD]

Looked at those. Dont want or need those features. Or to start adding in things to my already stable Asus router. Looking for all integrated things.
Ublock origin in web browser works fine.
Dont need QOS.
Dont use VPN (on the router level) or Guest wifi.
My ISPs DNS is local and the fastest(3 miles from me), though, I have used Alternate DNS that does adblocking, and CloudFlare DNS.

The Ubuquiti and other enterprise hardware and firmware, firewall etcs are claimed to be far more robust, secure, and more updated than anything any consumer unit has.
And I dont have to mess with adding in things to it, just do the initial config, and not touch it again as it auto updates firmware. The Unifi products are centrally manged with a control server and software. GUi is advanced but easy to manage and is geared towards more basic users. The Edge products, however, are their more advanced hardware with different management software, much more enterprise like. So i have been told and read in reviews etc.

Auto update of firmware? Really? Can this be disabled? Permanently?

Centrally managed? Is this code for 'cloud'? Can this be disabled? Permanently?

All our local ISP's DNS are usually the fastest, by default. Doesn't mean they are the best to use though.

I too have seen the claims by enterprise hardware. Haven't seen them proven either, at least not yet.

A reason for me to move to an 'enterprise' solution is to improve even one aspect (let's say routing) of my network. But that improvement had better be substantial and obvious.

Don't try to convince yourself that you need enterprise level in your current network environment. You're not pushing to a breaking point what you have now.

 

[speedingcheetah]

Auto update of firmware? Really? Can this be disabled? Permanently?

Centrally managed? Is this code for 'cloud'? Can this be disabled? Permanently?

All our local ISP's DNS are usually the fastest, by default. Doesn't mean they are the best to use though.

I too have seen the claims by enterprise hardware. Haven't seen them proven either, at least not yet.

A reason for me to move to an 'enterprise' solution is to improve even one aspect (let's say routing) of my network. But that improvement had better be substantial and obvious.

Don't try to convince yourself that you need enterprise level in your current network environment. You're not pushing to a breaking point what you have now.

Everything is configurable, same as any enterprise router. Via Counsel port or CLI/GUI on each device.
The Unifi management software (and the Edge products UMNS software) is local managed. U have to install in on to a computer or embedded type device on your network, such as a Pi or whatever. They offer a "Cloud Key" that is just a small computer powered by POE, with backup battery, SSD, NIC, RAM, and a LCD screen to show off network stats. U can set it to connect for remote acces, if u wish.

The Unify line is more, friendly, more for GUI and app users to configure. Edge products are for networking pros who know CLI and how to setup things. Edge managment software has strict requirements for what it can run on, certain Linux builds only, where as Unify software can run on any mac or windows pc as well. Edge u do not need to even use a central management software. Unify, u pretty much have to inorder to do anything. Having the central management software allows u to see and manage all same Ubiquiti product line devices at one time. Including updating firmware.

U can turn on or off anything. Make ur network as closed or open to the world as u wish.

 

[speedingcheetah]

Anyway....if some one who has actually owns and uses Ubquiti hardware could chime in here...would be great. Looking for more direct user experience.

 

[L&LD]

Once you open your network keys to the cloud, you can't simply choose to close them 'as you wish' anymore.

This conversation was enlightening. I hope you make the best decision for you.

 

[coxhaus]

Sounds like a SOHO router suits you. There is nothing wrong with that.

Adding more complexity and capability to a network takes more skill and more network understanding. Plus the devices require more complex setups. It is just the way it is. ASUS does not suit me but I was a Cisco network guy before I retired. When Cisco guys don't network at work any more, then we network at home.

I have never used Ubquiti gear but I know what it takes to build a network with separate components. I see a lot of functionality in a network like this. I run Cisco gear, a router, 3 Cisco switches one being a layer 3 switch and 3 Cisco wireless APs. I have a large home and can not cover my home with 1 wireless router. Once you cross this bridge of using more than 1 wireless AP you might as well go to separate components.

 

[roadwrenchtech]

I run a edgerouter x model, two switches and three access points (all tplink). There is 18 clients on my network including two flat screens streaming content simultaneously at times. There is 8 clients each streaming hd video across the network 24/7. The edgerouter x runs on average 1% cpu usage unless im making changes then it may rise to 6 to 8% temporarily. Ram runs about 50% whether there is nothing hooked up or every possible device going full bore.

 

[speedingcheetah]

I run a edgerouter x model, two switches and three access points (all tplink). There is 18 clients on my network including two flat screens streaming content simultaneously at times. There is 8 clients each streaming hd video across the network 24/7. The edgerouter x runs on average 1% cpu usage unless im making changes then it may rise to 6 to 8% temporarily. Ram runs about 50% whether there is nothing hooked up or every possible device going full bore.

Ok. but what is your ISP WAN speeds? Is it a 1Gig connection?
The routers CPU is what handles actual routing, where as local network traffic on LAN is done by switching. At least, that is what I have read so far.

 

[Trentors]

This is crazy. Stop drinking the Ubiquity cool-aid! No the ER-12 won't do ISP or QoS at 1 gbps. The reason nobody at the Ubnt forum is not helping is they know this and they are fanboys with big F. They refuse the simply fact that Ubiquiti routers are terrible underpowered. Multi-cores likely wont help with better WAN performance since it is very single-core extensive.

Ubnt fans are almost a cult. They keep praising the product and always recommended it to everyone. It is like a religion and they want to spread the "good message" since they now are "blessed". All the BS with "enterprise gear" is so stupid but one of the mantras that are kept used as a argument. Just like all other religion it is these kind of vague statements that are difficult to define or test that are used because it is not directly measurable.

Dig deeper! Use Google and see through the BS. The performance of Ubnt devices are not better than everyone else and does not produce rainbows when using it. And the performance of their routers are terrible unless you turn of all the bells and whistles. Just ask about the performance of OpenVPN on the ER-12 vs RT-AC86. Nobody will answer because nobody wants their "faith" challenged.

Google it and do they research yourself. Nobody in the Ubnt fanbase will help you with this.

 

[AndreiV]

An acquaintance has just had one of these delivered .

https://omnia.turris.cz/en/

He seems to be quite impressed so far.

 

[coxhaus]

Ok. but what is your ISP WAN speeds? Is it a 1Gig connection?
The routers CPU is what handles actual routing, where as local network traffic on LAN is done by switching. At least, that is what I have read so far.

This depends on how many networks you run in your home and whether you run a layer 3 switch or not. A layer 3 device is required when you go from 1 network to another network. It can be a layer 3 switch but if you don't have one then you need to use your router to route between local networks.