ASUS failed; [update - replaced]

[lindros2]

Have you tested line voltage? High voltage burns out electronic equipment. Are you using a surge protector?

I was pleasantly surprised by the ease of warranty service from Asus. Filled out an online form, sent off the unit, got email updates and new replacement unit in short order.

ASUS initially stonewalled me - they asked a litany of questions that were nonsense. And then it was back to "what devices are you connecting" when the core problem is that it will not reconnect after a power outage (and loses ability to operate after a couple of days). Yes, temperature has been fine/perfect - <65 degrees CPU, radios <55 degrees.

I've reset and changed firmware 30 times with no success.
Something happened around the time Merlin 386.5 came out. Not sure what it was. (note - I'm running 386.3_2 on my backup RT-AC5300 and it's fine for now - it's behind three layers of firewall so I'm not concerned re: Russia).

I have a pretty good surge on the main (GT-AC5300), and the AX11000 is plugged into an enterprise-grade (or prosumer, sorry), UPS.
All of my RT-AC68U (and 66U_B1, same thing) have been perfect. I have three of those - one active, one warm standby, one cold standby - dating back years.

 

[drinkingbird]

ASUS initially stonewalled me - they asked a litany of questions that were nonsense. And then it was back to "what devices are you connecting" when the core problem is that it will not reconnect after a power outage (and loses ability to operate after a couple of days). Yes, temperature has been fine/perfect - <65 degrees CPU, radios <55 degrees.

I've reset and changed firmware 30 times with no success.
Something happened around the time Merlin 386.5 came out. Not sure what it was. (note - I'm running 386.3_2 on my backup RT-AC5300 and it's fine for now - it's behind three layers of firewall so I'm not concerned re: Russia).

I have a pretty good surge on the main (GT-AC5300), and the AX11000 is plugged into an enterprise-grade (or prosumer, sorry), UPS.
All of my RT-AC68U (and 66U_B1, same thing) have been perfect. I have three of those - one active, one warm standby, one cold standby - dating back years.

Assuming you have an offline or line interactive UPS (which is a safe assumption) bad power will still make it through as long as it is within the thresholds of whatever high and low voltage regulation thresholds it has (if it has that feature). So you could be running 130 volts, or 100 volts, or even if the voltage is a perfect 110-120 it could be very dirty. Online UPS will feed perfect power to the devices but those are pretty high end and expensive. My 20 year old APC Smart UPS puts out far cleaner power on battery than what the utility sends (have compared on an oscilloscope, the APC puts out a nearly perfect sine wave). If your UPS is simulated/approximated sine wave, that can actually do more harm than good, some devices and power supplies simply can't deal with them (depending how crude the simulation is, some can be better than others). So you can end up damaging your device during a power outage or brownout. No, it isn't common, but it does happen, the more outages and the longer they are, the more the chance for damage.

Same with the surge protector, it won't do anything for bad quality power or over/undervoltage conditions.

Or maybe you're just unlucky and have gotten some bad routers.

 

[lindros2]

Assuming you have an offline or line interactive UPS (which is a safe assumption) bad power will still make it through as long as it is within the thresholds of whatever high and low voltage regulation thresholds it has (if it has that feature). So you could be running 130 volts, or 100 volts, or even if the voltage is a perfect 110-120 it could be very dirty. Online UPS will feed perfect power to the devices but those are pretty high end and expensive. My 20 year old APC Smart UPS puts out far cleaner power on battery than what the utility sends (have compared on an oscilloscope, the APC puts out a nearly perfect sine wave). If your UPS is simulated/approximated sine wave, that can actually do more harm than good, some devices and power supplies simply can't deal with them (depending how crude the simulation is, some can be better than others). So you can end up damaging your device during a power outage or brownout. No, it isn't common, but it does happen, the more outages and the longer they are, the more the chance for damage.

Same with the surge protector, it won't do anything for bad quality power or over/undervoltage conditions.

Or maybe you're just unlucky and have gotten some bad routers.

if multiple AC68U = fine, GT-AC5300 = fine, but AX11000 and AC3200 = both went bad within two years... I blame spotty parts.
My AT&T fiber gateway+ONT = fine. Other devices have all been okay. MacBook chargers don't get overly warm (they have recently at other homes/hotels)... so...

 

[drinkingbird]

if multiple AC68U = fine, GT-AC5300 = fine, but AX11000 and AC3200 = both went bad within two years... I blame spotty parts.
My AT&T fiber gateway+ONT = fine. Other devices have all been okay. MacBook chargers don't get overly warm (they have recently at other homes/hotels)... so...

Wall wart power supplies have been getting cheaper and cheaper, open one up from 20 years ago and it is very robust with a rectifier and large filtering capacitor and all the components (resistors etc) are oversized. These days there is a wimpy voltage regulator IC and if you're lucky a tiny filtering capacitor. So they are more sensitive to power issues. It can either harm the wall wart or get passed through to the router itself and damage the electronics. Not saying you have bad power, just that it is a possibility that some change they've made with the newer routers has made them more sensitive than older ones.

If you can find a large number of people with failures on those two models then maybe it is a design flaw, but if not you're either unlucky (possible, two failures isn't like winning the lottery odds) or something else in your situation is to blame.

 

[ElmerFudd]

I‘ve only experienced 1 router radio failure in 7 Asus routers (2 n66u, 3ac88u, and 2 ax88u) in 3 different homes. It failed right after a nearby room had new drywall installed so I attributed it to the fine plaster dust that got everywhere Including all over the router. Asus routers have been rock stable for me… long uptimes and replaced only to upgrade to new Wi-Fi standards.

 

[lindros2]

I should clarify the above and "failure" - either the radios are degrading, or - out of presumably nowhere, but as you can read in the thread, firmware updates appear to trigger something - the issue is that repeaters fail to re-connect to the main router.
I'm using an RT-AC5300 which was in the "degradation" stage/phase, and is quirky, but it gets back on the main router as an extender after 5-15 seconds.
The AX11000 originally was wicked fast - like 2-3 seconds to reconnect.
Now? It takes 30-45 seconds, or never gets on.
And the weird link rate of -4306Mbps...

 

[drinkingbird]

I should clarify the above and "failure" - either the radios are degrading, or - out of presumably nowhere, but as you can read in the thread, firmware updates appear to trigger something - the issue is that repeaters fail to re-connect to the main router.
I'm using an RT-AC5300 which was in the "degradation" stage/phase, and is quirky, but it gets back on the main router as an extender after 5-15 seconds.
The AX11000 originally was wicked fast - like 2-3 seconds to reconnect.
Now? It takes 30-45 seconds, or never gets on.
And the weird link rate of -4306Mbps...

So it sounds like you have a firmware issue? Are you factory resetting when upgrading firmware? Or maybe some sort of RF noise is interfering.

 

[lindros2]

So it sounds like you have a firmware issue? Are you factory resetting when upgrading firmware? Or maybe some sort of RF noise is interfering.

I have done factory reset 50 times.
I’ve cleared JFFS.
there is no recovery mode on next gen devices.
I’ve used both ASUS - multiple versions - and Merlin - back to his first next gen firmware.
not to be rude, but you think I haven’t tried just about everything?
35 years into networking and 20 articles under my belt…. Something is wrong here.
finally ASUS agrees.

 

[drinkingbird]

I have done factory reset 50 times.
I’ve cleared JFFS.
there is no recovery mode on next gen devices.
I’ve used both ASUS - multiple versions - and Merlin - back to his first next gen firmware.
not to be rude, but you think I haven’t tried just about everything?
35 years into networking and 20 articles under my belt…. Something is wrong here.
finally ASUS agrees.

I've got just as long in networking, just providing some suggestions, since I don't think your lawsuit idea is going to get you anywhere. If Asus has acknowledged an issue then hopefully they are now working to resolve the problem and get things straightened out for you.

 

[Maverick009]

I have done factory reset 50 times.
I’ve cleared JFFS.
there is no recovery mode on next gen devices.
I’ve used both ASUS - multiple versions - and Merlin - back to his first next gen firmware.
not to be rude, but you think I haven’t tried just about everything?
35 years into networking and 20 articles under my belt…. Something is wrong here.
finally ASUS agrees.

If we are talking about Asus recovery mode, there is still a recovery mode on even new gen Asus Routers. I have used the recovery mode on the GT-AX11000 quite a few times when playing with firmware updates that may of gone crazy, and not right. Also we need to take in 2 facts. One is the router tech in some newer Asus routers, may need different settings than a previous or lower end router from the same manufacture and some firmware may be slightly different or optimized over other firmware. The other fact is even a company is not immune to have defects or faulty devices. I would say in a worse case scenario it could be that you received a defective one out a batch, but from my own use of the GT-AX11000 and all the reviews and user experiences I have heard with it, very few issues arise, and this is not a major show stopping issue with enough reports causing Asus to issue a recall.

The other thing I wanted to mention from seeing it here, is that you say they ask pointless questions, but they really are not pointless. A lot of times the questions are there to try and eliminate any other possibilities, and probe to see if maybe it is something else (early AX devices/drivers caused a lot of issues with 802.11 160 channel.). Also these are usually tier 1 techs trying to troubleshoot, before it moves to the next level of support.

 

[Poseidon]

After years with this brand (and dicking around resetting and fixing routers) I’m done.
tech support useless. Won’t talk just email and chat.
well, now it’s time (after 8 weeks) to put the screws to them.
For those considering ASUS (doubtful here) - don’t.

I gave up on Asus routers a few years ago. Tried dipping my feet in the water here and there and I was reminded why I left them in the first place. Crappy hardware that malfunctions shortly after purchase and repetitive firmware updates that fix one thing but breaks a few more. I’ve said this recently and I’ll reiterate it again….Asus is NOT what it used to be several years ago.

I left for Netgear and I’ve been super happy. No constant rebooting routers or factory resetting them. Sure they charge for their security package but I’d rather pay a few bucks then get that China Commie Trend Micro Spy security.

Good luck with your next router. I’m sure it will be more stable (and reliable) than the current crop of Asus routers.

 

[lindros2]

I gave up on Asus routers a few years ago. Tried dipping my feet in the water here and there and I was reminded why I left them in the first place. Crappy hardware that malfunctions shortly after purchase and repetitive firmware updates that fix one thing but breaks a few more. I’ve said this recently and I’ll reiterate it again….Asus is NOT what it used to be several years ago.

I left for Netgear and I’ve been super happy. No constant rebooting routers or factory resetting them. Sure they charge for their security package but I’d rather pay a few bucks then get that China Commie Trend Micro Spy security.

Good luck with your next router. I’m sure it will be more stable (and reliable) than the current crop of Asus routers.

I've been holding off on going semi-pro (Ubiquiti) because I'm cheap and didn't think I had enough devices (now we have 55-70 devices including a dozen computers and the remainder smart home crapola) or prosumer (expensive mesh i.e. Orbi RBKE953S or Amplifi Alien), but after my recent issues - and also with 8 SSID's - I think my time Macgyver'ing my home network are over.

 

[lindros2]

I have used the recovery mode on the GT-AX11000 quite a few times when playing with firmware updates that may of gone crazy, and not right.

How do you get in? I've tried a bunch of button presses and could not get the router to work in recovery mode (obviously with the app running on a Windows machine... unless we're talking SSH).

The other thing I wanted to mention from seeing it here, is that you say they ask pointless questions, but they really are not pointless. A lot of times the questions are there to try and eliminate any other possibilities, and probe to see if maybe it is something else (early AX devices/drivers caused a lot of issues with 802.11 160 channel.). Also these are usually tier 1 techs trying to troubleshoot, before it moves to the next level of support.

I'm going to stand my ground here. They have asked pointless questions - first, about my motherboard (they sent me three motherboard questionnaires, when I have a wifi router, not a motherboard). They refused to get on the phone, or a Zoom/Teams/GoTo/whatever - absolutely refused to debug the situation live.

I pulled logs and sent to them - four times. They did nothing with it. I reset my password because supposedly the logs are password protected (didn't make sense to me).

Then, which devices are connecting (phone, computer), and am I watching YouTube, what version is Windows on my computer... and then when we both agreed it was a radio issue - or connectivity issue - after some period of time, they started asking again on sources, computers, SSID's, etc. - when I couldn't even bring up the web UI from a wired connetion.
In general, they were following a script that was not applicable to the problem.

 

[Tech9]

Asus is NOT what it used to be several years ago.

Like most new consumer products, regardless of the brand. Flashy design, big screens, color changing lights. You are complaining about few hundred dollars router. My 4 months old German built car had to go back to mama twice already. I can only imagine what the second owner is going to go through.

 

[bbunge]

How do you get in? I've tried a bunch of button presses and could not get the router to work in recovery mode (obviously with the app running on a Windows machine... unless we're talking SSH).

If you can read see chapter 5.2 of the router manual to get into recovery mode. Seems to be the same procedure for all Asus routers....

 

[lindros2]

If you can read see chapter 5.2 of the router manual to get into recovery mode. Seems to be the same procedure for all Asus routers....

so it's the reset button + unplug/replug.
I tried this 3 or 4 times, and it never worked - it kept going back to normal.

Since ASUS chose to replace my router within 25 minutes of acknowledging receipt/tech working on it... methinks my router was broken.

 

[lindros2]

Like most new consumer products, regardless of the brand. Flashy design, big screens, color changing lights. You are complaining about few hundred dollars router. My 4 months old German built car had to go back to mama twice already. I can only imagine what the second owner is going to go through.

Been there.
I've dealt with price/cost concerns in BOM's (bill of materials).
But I have *not* dealt with it in the past 2 years, in which labor, parts shortages, and severe supply chain havoc has thrown everything into a maelstrom.

With that said, my AX11000 was manufactured in 2019. Before this.

 

[Tech9]

Planned obsolescence is part of the engineering process now.

 

[drinkingbird]

How do you get in? I've tried a bunch of button presses and could not get the router to work in recovery mode (obviously with the app running on a Windows machine... unless we're talking SSH).


I'm going to stand my ground here. They have asked pointless questions - first, about my motherboard (they sent me three motherboard questionnaires, when I have a wifi router, not a motherboard). They refused to get on the phone, or a Zoom/Teams/GoTo/whatever - absolutely refused to debug the situation live.

I pulled logs and sent to them - four times. They did nothing with it. I reset my password because supposedly the logs are password protected (didn't make sense to me).

Then, which devices are connecting (phone, computer), and am I watching YouTube, what version is Windows on my computer... and then when we both agreed it was a radio issue - or connectivity issue - after some period of time, they started asking again on sources, computers, SSID's, etc. - when I couldn't even bring up the web UI from a wired connetion.
In general, they were following a script that was not applicable to the problem.

Unfortunately, that is the reality of India tech support. If you've ever seen the setup, they punch in some keywords from what you say (some IVR phone systems actually do it for them) then read a script. This is nothing new. Yes, it is horrifically annoying, especially when you try to explain to them that what they're saying is senseless and they refuse to budge from the script. Sometimes you can have better luck by escalating or asking for supervisor, but often you just have to answer their questions and try to get your point through repeatedly. Sounds like they ended up making things right in the long run, that's what matters. I've actually gotten so used to it (my company outsources a ton to India) that I've learned how to phrase things to get them to the right place or get them to agree that something is broken much quicker.

I'd highly recommend looking into Ubiquiti. The edgerouters are quite cheap and very flexible and the access points have a lot of features, the two work together great using the same management app, and you can add in firewalls etc in the same app. They aren't perfect but the bugs are usually minor and fixed quickly, they have a great support forum with employees in it constantly answering and following up. Honestly when I downsized from my crazy Cisco/Juniper/HP Procurve setup it was a coin toss between Asus and Ubiquiti. For what I needed (now that I wasn't running servers out of my house etc) the Asus was plenty and I got it on clearance for $25. I do still use a Ubiquiti AP for my outside areas. I do miss sometimes the flexibility I had with my old setup (I dream in Cisco IOS at this point), but not the cost of power, static IP, etc. I've got an L3 switch sitting here that can route 200 GIGs with NAT and ACLs enabled, and a traditional router that does 40 GIG with those same features. But they draw as much power as a space heater. So they are now just lab/testing use for work.

For what you're doing, I think you'd be quite happy with a Ubiquiti setup. Their seamless roaming isn't perfect but neither is Asus'. And I'd guess that Ubiquiti will have the new AX seamless roaming up and running fully before Asus does (if they don't already, haven't been paying attention to their AX stuff).

 

[lindros2]

For what you're doing, I think you'd be quite happy with a Ubiquiti setup. Their seamless roaming isn't perfect but neither is Asus'. And I'd guess that Ubiquiti will have the new AX seamless roaming up and running fully before Asus does (if they don't already, haven't been paying attention to their AX stuff).

I actually purchased - and returned on my dime - their consumer-grade AmpliFi Alien, and stuck with the AX11000 + GT-AC5300 setup.

With that said, if anyone tries to buy Ubiquiti now... it was sold out (some is back in stock)...