Asus RT-AC5300 Range issues

[Shawn519]

Hi Everyone.

I purchased a RT-AC5300 yesterday, and after a few hours setting it up was ready to pack it up and take it back to the store. I did end up getting it to work, but the signal range is a serious concern of mine.

First I have the 5300 on a lower floor. My house unfortunately has a LOT of solid walls (concrete, brick etc). Its an old house, and there really isnt much I can do. So I set this router up in the exact same spot as my old router (Netgear R6300), and off we go.

I go upstairs and try to connect my laptop, and I am experiencing extremely slow loading. IE i cant even log in to the router to set it up. I am literally 15 feet away from the router 8 feet above it, and maybe 10 feet away from it, wood floor. I move my laptop directly above the router and it works fine. Back to the table no luck.

Basically the computer was constantly dropping the 2.4G signal. It just could not stay connected. I finally ended up moving the router about 4 feet higher than the old one, which makes it work upstairs but still have a weak signal in the rest of the house.


I had assumed that this router with 8 antennas, would provide much better coverage of the home, vs my old one (with NO external antennas), but that just doesnt seem to be the case.

A few questions.

1. Should all the antennas be pointed in the same direction (up, 45degree etc?) or should I have some pointed up, some down some diagonal. keeping in mind this router servicing 3000+ SF on multiple levels.
2. Do all antennas broadcast the same signal, or do some send 2.4, some 5 etc. (Need to know this for pointing).
3. Would it be worth while to go and buy an external antenna with cable and mount up as high as i can? (this would be good if all antennas send the same signal but not so much if they send separate ones).


At the end of the day I do like this router, but I just cant understand how the signal is so crappy 15 feet away from the router, and non existent in other areas, considering the R6300 with NO external antennas had little problem doing so.

 

[pete y testing]

welcome to the snb forums

I had assumed that this router with 8 antennas, would provide much better coverage of the home, vs my old one

so the R6300 is a wireless AC router which is 1750 ac class 450M on 2.4 gig and 1300M on 5 gig and by all report was a pretty reasonable wireless ac router for its time so its not like you are coming from an older wireless N router that had poor performance in the first place

btw your not the first person to find this out we have a user with an asus rt-ac66u with almost exactly the same complaint that he has seen no real gain when moving from the 66u to the 5300 and i will explain why below

but that just doesnt seem to be the case.

there is a perception that more antenna = better coverage but that simply isnt the case esp indoors where construction materials used and location can be a big issue as it is with 3 antennas or internal antennas

the 5300 is 4x4 on 2.4 gig to give it the max sync of 1000M and 4x4 on 5 gig giving you 2156M + 4x4 on 5 gig giving you 2156M

so 1 set of the 4 antennas are dual band and do 2.4 gig and one of the 5 gig transmissions , the other set of 4 antennas just does the second 5 gig transmission and thus why its called a tri band router

so since the release of 1900ac class routers we have reached the max allowable power transmission level ( max eirp ) and thus no matter how many antennas a router has or how many bs claims its blurb makes you will not get extra coverage out of any of the latest wireless AC routers

you will get more throughput with the right adapters but not coverage

now physics dictate that lower frequencies propagate or travel further than higher frequencies thus the 2.4 gig should get better coverage in the same location as compared to 5 gig

if you are having issues getting 2.4 gig to penetrate up stairs i suggest there is something other than wood on that floor and i would suggest you look at having ethernet run between the floors and running a separate wireless access point connected back to the main router via the ethernet install

there is no magic bullet here and the claims made in the advertising are smoke and mirrors type claims as they usually compare transmission levels to much older wireless N technology without beamforming or amplification

1. Should all the antennas be pointed in the same direction (up, 45degree etc?)

by doing this you may help the signal up stairs but at th cost of the coverage on the same level as the router

keeping in mind this router servicing 3000+ SF on multiple levels.

then as i suggested you prob need a transmission per level and not expect anything to work from one location

2. Do all antennas broadcast the same signal, or do some send 2.4, some 5 etc. (Need to know this for pointing).

see my explanation above , which ones do what i have no idea lol , but have a look at the review here at smb as it may give you some clue with the pictures

3. Would it be worth while to go and buy an external antenna with cable and mount up as high as i can? (this would be good if all antennas send the same signal but not so much if they send separate ones).

and the potential signal loss over the cable from the router to the antenna would negate any benefit it would have given

as i said it sounds like you expecting too much of a single transmission in such a big place and i suggest physics is fighting against you

you could look at powerline technology if ethernet run isnt possible but ethernet to the second floor is by far your best solution with a separate wireless access point connected to it

just for information in the coming weeks i will be doing a side by side shoot out of the whole wireless AC range and class structure with regards to coverage so you can see how little difference there is across the whole wireless AC range when it comes to coverage with the same wireless adapter

 

[Shawn519]

and the potential signal loss over the cable from the router to the antenna would negate any benefit it would have given

While I understand that more antenna's does not correlate to better range, I thought having more antennas might give the router a better chance of sending signal to areas that were dead zones before (IE inside its coverage area but previously didnt get a good signal). Like I mentioned, my house sucks for concrete, and the old router had NO external antennas so i figured if i could point these how I wanted i could help eliminate dead zones. I figured this new router would have at the least the same amount of coverage as the 6300.

What confuses me the most is if i position the new 5300 in the exact spot the R6300 was in, it simply doesnt work in many areas that the 6300 had no issues with. My bedroom now has 0 coverage of the 2.4g band, and 1-2 bars 5g band. (but only one of the 5g bands not the second).

So it seems to me the antennas need to be configured to get the best coverage. I just wish Asus would have put a note in the manual as to which ones do what, and which direction they should all face etc.


The only reason I was thinking of an antennas is I could probably put it on the other side of a concrete wall which might help with coverage on that side. Just not sure how much signal lose you may get.


I think my project this weekend is to move the router to a higher point in the house and see if it makes any difference. I know i can always set the netgear 6300 as an AP and I probably will at some point. Just want to make sure I have this guy set up right first.

 

[pete y testing]

While I understand that more antenna's does not correlate to better range,

see

http://www.snbforums.com/threads/wireless-ac-5-gig-coverage-per-class-comparison.32362/

 

[sfx2000]

Can't beat the basic laws of the universe - e.g. Physics...

5GHz is always going to be more dependent on location based on propagation loss on both the AP and the clients.

Can't really spend a way out of this...

 

[dfran1]

go here
go under test builds
then download the rt-ac5300 alpha 2 dated 2016-04-05
Flash this version, then reset to factory defaults, configure like a new unit from scratch. All antennas pointing straight up for me.

People can believe in all the Physics they want (please no harm) but out of all the routers I had, this 5300 has outstanding, second to no other I have owned with wifi signal, I am extremely picky about my wifi also, extreemly (see my sig).

I tied another version (newer) and wifi took a hit, I went back to the rt-ac5300 alpha 2 dated 2016-04-05 version and wifi is outstanding, I would have returned this router if it had the same wifi as any other of my others, so the 8 antennas work great and show a great improvement.

I use smart connect also, all is great. I had one glitch when I first set this router up with smart connect, went to manual mode, tested, then switched back to start connect and all was perfect.
Good Luck!!

 

[sfx2000]

go here
go under test builds
then download the rt-ac5300 alpha 2 dated 2016-04-05

Let's just not go with hggomes firmware builds - between GPL issues and violation of regulatory domains, it's not good...

 

[RMerlin]

Let's just not go with hggomes firmware builds - between GPL issues and violation of regulatory domains, it's not good...

This is my repo, not hggomes'.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

 

[pete y testing]

People can believe in all the Physics they want

yes its all smoke and mirrors that physics stuff

but out of all the routers I had, this 5300 has outstanding, second to no other I have owned with wifi signal, I am extremely picky about my wifi also, extreemly (see my sig).

so what are some of the other routers you have owned ?

as my testing shows a somewhat different conclusion amongst the AC class routers ( see link above ) , sure if coming from anything with wireless N you would no doubt see a massive increase in both range as well as throughput

 

[sfx2000]

This is my repo, not hggomes'.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

Sorry, when I saw the mediafire link... just that build is popping it's head up again :|

For third party releases - the RMerlin build is top of the list of recommendations...

 

[dfran1]

so what are some of the other routers you have owned ?

in my sig. also

Had Netgear, D-Link, Apple, RT-AC66R, RT-AC68R, RT-AC87R, EA8500 Linksys, now RT-AC5300

 

[pete y testing]

Had Netgear, D-Link, Apple, RT-AC66R, RT-AC68R,

i assume the dlink and apple where wireless n ,

as shown the 68u/r is not all that bad so you must have had a lemon

which goes back to the reason i started the wireless AC class comparison charts in that it shows that no matter the class we have reached max eirp limits and its only slight increases in beamforming algorithms etc that make one better than the other

but out of all the routers I had, this 5300 has outstanding, second to no other I have owned with wifi signal

so to say the above is a bit misleading in a pure wifi sense , it might be a tad better but not a degree that makes anything else second rate

the 87u was a disappointment for me as well i must admit and has just seemed to get worse with newer fw revisions

cant comment on the r8500 but in its reviews its said to be quite good wifi wise

 

[SoCalReviews]

People can believe in all the Physics they want (please no harm) but out of all the routers I had, this 5300 has outstanding, second to no other I have owned with wifi signal, I am extremely picky about my wifi also, extreemly (see my sig).

Thanks for your input. I like hearing this. I have been wanting to pull the trigger on a RT-ac5300 purchase. I just haven't convinced myself whether the price to performance ratio is worth an upgrade compared to my current RT-ac68p which seems to work well for me but it's outer edge 2.4Ghz wifi range drops off compared to my previous RT-n66u. This extra information helps.

Maybe somebody (RMerlin, ac5300 testers and others in the forum,etc.) could provide more input regarding this ... I thought I read somewhere that eight antennas actually do give the 4 x 4 wireless AC router a "physics advantage" since the send and receive beam forming MIMO radio signals are separated and this results in improved sensitivity and reduced signal interference. If true this would be my primary reasoning for going with the ac5300 vs. the less expensive ac88u.

 

[pete y testing]

I thought I read somewhere that eight antennas actually do give the 4 x 4 wireless AC router a "physics advantage" since the send and receive beam forming MIMO radio signals are separated and this results in improved sensitivity and reduced signal interference.

this would only be true if you have a 4 x 4 wireless adapter as well , otherwise you are still using 3 x 3 or 2 x 2 etc

i dont think your logic is right here , there is little difference as to how the 5300 works compared to the 88u , the 5300 just has another 5 gig transmission

imho you are far better of with the 88u with its extra ports , and it works just the same in all other aspects

 

[sfx2000]

I think the 4*4:4 AP's will get a bit better performance across all clients... some more than others, but all get a bit more...

It's all about MIMO, eh?

(from a sound engineering background with 802.11/802.16/LTE)...

 

[SoCalReviews]

this would only be true if you have a 4 x 4 wireless adapter as well , otherwise you are still using 3 x 3 or 2 x 2 etc

i dont think your logic is right here , there is little difference as to how the 5300 works compared to the 88u , the 5300 just has another 5 gig transmission

imho you are far better of with the 88u with its extra ports , and it works just the same in all other aspects

It's not just logic. It's simple basic physics. Whether it's 2 x 2 (4 antennae), 3 x 3 (6 antennae) or 4 x 4 (8 antennae)... When you have send and receive signals on the same path or more signaling on the same path there will be reduced sensitivity and increased interference compared to when those radios are separate with multiple antennas. This is more important with MIMO and MU-MIMO radio signals that utilize precise algorithms to detect subtle time delays within a particular frequency spectrum.

This is a pretty good video explaining MIMO signaling...

[

Similarly... isolating digital signaling is also critical for increasing bandwidth frequency with Ethernet cable where twisted pair shielding and varying the twist rate helps isolate interference between twisted pairs of copper wiring.

The transmit and receive antennas are very close to each other as it is but transmit signal power is very strong compared to receive and having both on the same exact physical signal path could potentially cause some amount of inter-signal interference. The real world measured interference probably is negligible but it still ideally would help having separate antennas on the devices as well. However, I definitely don't claim to be an expert on how the exact details of how these wireless routers work relating to optimizing performance but that is why I asked for some clarity from anyone who might have more information about this.

 

[SoCalReviews]

I think the 4*4:4 AP's will get a bit better performance across all clients... some more than others, but all get a bit more...

It's all about MIMO, eh?

(from a sound engineering background with 802.11/802.16/LTE)...

Ya... Many of these differences are negligible performance tweaks intended to inspire us to purchase the latest greatest which is why I rely on enthusiasts such as yourself to post your own experiences with this equipment.

 

[dfran1]

i assume the dlink and apple where wireless n ,

as shown the 68u/r is not all that bad so you must have had a lemon

which goes back to the reason i started the wireless AC class comparison charts in that it shows that no matter the class we have reached max eirp limits and its only slight increases in beamforming algorithms etc that make one better than the other

so to say the above is a bit misleading in a pure wifi sense , it might be a tad better but not a degree that makes anything else second rate

the 87u was a disappointment for me as well i must admit and has just seemed to get worse with newer fw revisions

can't comment on the r8500 but in its reviews its said to be quite good wifi wise

-Dlink and Apple had 2.5 and 5GHz, but 5GHz was not usable by my devices and bad signal on those when I purchased devices to use on 5GHz.
-68 had horrible 5 GHz range, just horrid. I don't know what you did to yours to get anything usable out of it (distance wise).
-I agree on the 87, Asus should have recalled them, left an extremely bad feeling for me.
-The EA8500 was my best router until this rt-ac5300, in every way. BUT with the EA8500 I still had some dead spots (especially in the yard) with both 2.4 and 5GHz, not many but they were there and my devices would not switch from 5 to 2.4GHz on the EA8500. So when I went out to mow I would look at my phone and find I was on cellular streaming music instead of the 2.4 GHz band, this was annoying to me, no matter what firmware Linksys came out with it just did not work, it would work from 2.4 to 5GHz though. Also Linksys has now locked down their firmware this year, meaning once you go 2 firmwares into this years (they had ~3) there was no going back at all, spoke to Linksys tech support and they offered to swap my router out as the ones they send have old firmware that was not locked until updated 2 times.

So yes this RT-AC5300 is better, those dead spots are all gone (when even the EA8500 2.4GHz has dead spots and the RT-AC5300 has none {have not found any yet}, to me that is a huge difference, though I did not have a lot of dead spots with the EA8500, but I had some), it switches band to band perfectly, and the separation between the two 5 GHz bands is perfect, so 3 very usable bands and I use smart connect that just works. Same router placement of all routers I have owned.
In my opinion only!, after reading even other owners of the 88, I would not get the 88 or recommend it, I believe the placement of the antennas on the RT-AC5300 is just optimal for any wifi router. BUT just my opinion, I am by far no expert on routers.

Two people here posted they went from 88 to 5300 page 34

 

[pete y testing]

Dlink and Apple had 2.5 and 5GHz, but 5GHz was not usable by my devices and bad signal on those when I purchased devices to use on 5GHz.

so wireless N right

68 had horrible 5 GHz range, just horrid. I don't know what you did to yours to get anything usable out of it (distance wise).

nothing it just works like that as it should

I agree on the 87, Asus should have recalled them, left an extremely bad feeling for me.

yup it seems to be a problem

In my opinion only!, after reading even other owners of the 88, I would not get the 88 or recommend it, I believe the placement of the antennas on the RT-AC5300 is just optimal for any wifi router. BUT just my opinion, I am by far no expert on routers.

its a lack of understanding of how both the 88u and 5300 are exactly the same which suggests you are mislead into your belief , again the 5300 just has an extra 5 gig transmission and nothing else

 

[12darline]

go here
go under test builds
then download the rt-ac5300 alpha 2 dated 2016-04-05
Flash this version, then reset to factory defaults, configure like a new unit from scratch. All antennas pointing straight up for me.

People can believe in all the Physics they want (please no harm) but out of all the routers I had, this 5300 has outstanding, second to no other I have owned with wifi signal, I am extremely picky about my wifi also, extreemly (see my sig).

I tied another version (newer) and wifi took a hit, I went back to the rt-ac5300 alpha 2 dated 2016-04-05 version and wifi is outstanding, I would have returned this router if it had the same wifi as any other of my others, so the 8 antennas work great and show a great improvement.

I use smart connect also, all is great. I had one glitch when I first set this router up with smart connect, went to manual mode, tested, then switched back to start connect and all was perfect.
Good Luck!!

I agree with you 100%. I have used this router since it availability and I love it. In the past 5 years, I have used more than 7 routers (from various manufactures) and this is the best (hands down), and with Merlin's software it just continues to get better. If you are having trouble, as described, maybe you have a defective item. I have a 4500 square foot house with the RT-AC5300 on the top floor, and I have no problem connecting downstairs and 42 feet away. I also have an excellent signal on the patio and on the balcony. Like I said, I Love It...