At the same pricepoint - Netgear X10 R9000 or RT-AX88U?

[Mark M]

Spent a week doing tons of research on up to date wireless routers. I've concluded to myself I may not be contempt with the current state of Wireless AX draft standard, so spending an arm and a leg doesn't interest me. This is why I picked the AX88U as an alternative option due to the sweet price point.

I have been using a Netgear X10 R9000 for about a year and it became defective (constantly factory resetting after reboot). Netgear sent me a new sealed R9000 and I have not opened it yet.

I now have the option to either open and use the R9000, or sell it and buy another router (which is where the AX88U comes in). I decided against the RAX120 due to no 3rd party firmware/packages support. If I sell the sealed R9000, I'll either be plus or minus a few bucks.

In case it helps in decision making:

-I have Gig FiOS
-I have a couple of AX devices (Two iPhone 11 Pros and a laptop with an Intel AX200)
-I mostly rely on Wireless AC devices such as Fire Cube and Fire Sticks
-2.4 Ghz isn't too important for me. All 2.4 GHz devices I have capacity and speed do not matter (Nest Thermostat, light switches, etc)

My bottom line is the R9000 is a powerhouse. I was able to use Voxel's Firmware and Entware on top of that. AX-88U I would be going with Merlin's firmware. I've never had an ASUS router before, but I am reading they really do try with their firmware functionality unlike Netgear.

I am not looking to be futureproof, considering either route I take, there is no future proofing. I understand AC is matured at this point, and AX is fairly immature.

After several days of going back and fourth, I'm 50/50. What would you do in this situation?

 

[L&LD]

No 50/50 about it for me. Asus + RMerlin + RT-AX88U all the way.

Welcome to the best consumer networking solution today!

 

[avtella]

If you were deciding purchasing a brand new unit then at similar prices I'd probably go with L&LD's advice as Asus does put more effort into firmware.

However on the other hand since you just got a replacement you could just keep the R9000, mediocre stock firmware aside, it's got mature radios, the QCA 9984 is probably the best AC radio and decent third party support as it's a Qualcomm WiFi based unit. Also note that AX probably won’t give you more than 10-15% boost in real world throughput over AC in the 5Ghz band, at times maybe up to 20% at least from my testing experience. On 2.4 Ghz it can double throughput over AC however.

Also look at the SNB review of AX routers, the QCA chipset was more consistent in 5Ghz while the BCM based units had a weird dip.

If you really intend to get AX, I'd go for the AX89X (same hardware as the RAX120 but with 2 10Gb ports: 1 SFP+ and 1 10G Nbase-T) because of the QCA chipset and actual 10G connections, so if you have a NAS or something it can actually go over 1Gbps to actually make more use of the hardware's throughput capability unlike the AX88U, also I've heard Comcast for example over provisions the 1Gbps plan (Not sure if Verizon does) so you could get 1.1/1.2 Gbps without link aggregation as the AX89X has a Nbase-T port, of course you need a modem that has 2.5 Gbps port or higher to get the higher speeds. Also being a QCA device it would eventually support OpenWRT. Broadcom on the other hand is not so friendly with open source, even the 2nd gen Wave 2 AC devices don't have proper WiFi support in OpenWRT even now. DD-WRT had access to proprietary binaries from BCM not sure if they still do now.

 

[Mark M]

If you were deciding purchasing a brand new unit then at similar prices I'd probably go with L&LD's advice as Asus does put more effort into firmware.

However on the other hand since you just got a replacement you could just keep the R9000, mediocre stock firmware aside, it's got mature radios, the QCA 9984 is probably the best AC radio and decent third party support as it's a Qualcomm WiFi based unit. Also note that AX probably won’t give you more than 10-15% boost in real world throughput over AC in the 5Ghz band, at times maybe up to 20% at least from my testing experience. On 2.4 Ghz it can double throughput over AC however.

Also look at the SNB review of AX routers, the QCA chipset was more consistent in 5Ghz while the BCM based units had a weird dip.

If you really intend to get AX, I'd go for the AX89X (same hardware as the RAX120 but with 2 10Gb ports: 1 SFP+ and 1 10G Nbase-T) because of the QCA chipset and actual 10G connections, so if you have a NAS or something it can actually go over 1Gbps to actually make more use of the hardware's throughput capability unlike the AX88U, also I've heard Comcast for example over provisions the 1Gbps plan (Not sure if Verizon does) so you could get 1.1/1.2 Gbps without link aggregation as the AX89X has a Nbase-T port, of course you need a modem that has 2.5 Gbps port or higher to get the higher speeds. Also being a QCA device it would eventually support OpenWRT. Broadcom on the other hand is not so friendly with open source, even the 2nd gen Wave 2 AC devices don't have proper WiFi support in OpenWRT even now. DD-WRT had access to proprietary binaries from BCM not sure if they still do now.

It’s interesting I saw those dips you were talking about in the snb reviews. Was honestly the one thing that was holding me back. I figured it could be fixed with future firmware maybe...

Verizon ONT doesn’t have nbase T unfortunately. I think the theoretical max is like 940/880ish or something along those lines. But good point incase it can get upgraded in the future..

Merlin + QCA would be a match made in heaven. Im sure he’s mentioned in one post or another why he doesn't make firmware for QCA based routers. (I do wonder why, im afraid to ask him)

rt ac89x does look nice. But with no Merlin, i wouldnt be able to really use entware on it i assume.. not until OpenWRT gets released

 

[Mark M]

No 50/50 about it for me. Asus + RMerlin + RT-AX88U all the way.

Welcome to the best consumer networking solution today!

Just curious... If I did go the RT-AX88U Route, is the AI Mesh system fully working with the AX routers? I hear great reviews with AI Mesh versus Netgears Extenders. I'd like to buy an extender and utilize it considering I do have one extender in my house.

Any Asus extenders in particular that are recommended more-so than others?

 

[avtella]

It will work in AI Mesh, as for specific extender models I'm sure L&LD or some of the others could help you with that.

 

[Marin]

Just curious... If I did go the RT-AX88U Route, is the AI Mesh system fully working with the AX routers? I hear great reviews with AI Mesh versus Netgears Extenders. I'd like to buy an extender and utilize it considering I do have one extender in my house.

Any Asus extenders in particular that are recommended more-so than others?

AiMesh works well for me. Have not experienced any issues so far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mark M]

I've decided to go the pfSense route. I realize I have an old Asrock Z77 ITX motherboard, Intel Core i7 3770k, and 16 GB of RAM laying around collecting dust that was an old server build. I just need a power supply. I just purchased a genuine pulled Dell I350 T2 card from a PowerEdge Server.

I have a R7800 right now I am using as router, I will turn that into a WAP. I just need one more WAP due to weak spots in my house. Any recommendations on a Wireless AX capable access point? Or is it necessary to get a full blown router and turning it into an access point?

 

[microchip]

While an avid NG user, I'd stay away from the R9000 and go with the AX88U. The former has quite some firmware stability issues

 

[Trip]

@Mark M - AX doesn't really offer any real-world merit right now, besides up to 2x the 2.4Ghz throughput for AX clients, and won't add anything unique for at least a year or so, plus will ultimately have to be ripped and replaced with Wifi 6E hardware to get 6Ghz support. So unless you just want to be on the bleeding edge for the sake of it, I'd stick with AC Wave 2 stuff for now. I'd also stick with Qualcomm. A lowly $65 Archer A7 running stock or OpenWRT should do it. Or if you want seamless roaming and central management, eBay the R7800 and go Omada with two EAP225's or EAP245's; you can run the controller for free on an always-on PC, RPi or buy an OC200 for $85.

 

[L&LD]

@Trip, maybe AX on its own doesn't, but specifically for the RT-AX88U and in my use, it was enough of an improvement for me (and I care very little about 2.4GHz performance. For 2.4GHz performance, whatever is offered, is a bonus).

RT-AX88U Upgrade https://www.snbforums.com/threads/b...ta-is-now-available.60037/page-31#post-531024

 

[Trip]

@Trip, maybe AX on its own doesn't, but specifically for the RT-AX88U and in my use, it was enough of an improvement for me

Were you using 80Mhz channel width for AC and AX before/after? AX 160Mhz would of course yield much higher throughput, but depending on environment, may not be feasible, or usable at all, as it commands such a wide amount of spectrum, and/or there are relatively few 160Mhz-capable NICs available universally, and that will remain for the next year+... In the end, it all depends on @Mark M's client population.

 

[Mark M]

@Mark M - AX doesn't really offer any real-world merit right now, besides up to 2x the 2.4Ghz throughput for AX clients, and won't add anything unique for at least a year or so, plus will ultimately have to be ripped and replaced with Wifi 6E hardware to get 6Ghz support. So unless you just want to be on the bleeding edge for the sake of it, I'd stick with AC Wave 2 stuff for now. I'd also stick with Qualcomm. A lowly $65 Archer A7 running stock or OpenWRT should do it. Or if you want seamless roaming and central management, eBay the R7800 and go Omada with two EAP225's or EAP245's; you can run the controller for free on an always-on PC, RPi or buy an OC200 for $85.

Thanks, I may or may not sell the R7800. But I am going with the pfSense box at this point. I'd like to play around with it. When 6E does come out, will require new hardware all around. I can't see 6 Ghz being widely utilized a year or two.

@Trip, maybe AX on its own doesn't, but specifically for the RT-AX88U and in my use, it was enough of an improvement for me (and I care very little about 2.4GHz performance. For 2.4GHz performance, whatever is offered, is a bonus).

RT-AX88U Upgrade https://www.snbforums.com/threads/b...ta-is-now-available.60037/page-31#post-531024

I'm curious, do you think it would be a waste of money to buy and use a Ax88U in WAP mode?

Theoretically I would buy an AX88U and throw only AX clients on the 5 GHz bands, and use the R7800 for AC / N clients on a separate SSID. As for the 2.4 Ghz bands, maybe I can overlap them all and use one single SSID (as I don't care about them much).

Another option is to sell the R7800. I could get a AX88U and an AC88U and use the "aimesh" system.

I don't see any cheaper AX WAP's out there. I feel like might as well just buy a Router and put it into AP mode (the AX88U). If I'm lucky, I can find a used one on ebay for around ~$200

 

[L&LD]

@Trip, I tested many configurations and when comparing RT-AC86U to RT-AX88U in AC mode (80MHz max-width possible) the improvements were exceptional. Please see the original post.

@Mark M an RT-AX88U for mere AP usage depends on your budget. Not something that I can consider for myself (and I certainly don't need it with the performance I'm getting now).

I would not get an RT-AC88U today. Outclassed, IMO and I feel will be lagging on support in the future too. The RT-AC3100 I had was great (almost hardware twin to the 'AC88U except for 4 LAN Ports vs. 8), but the RT-AC86U is even better for range and throughput.

RT-AC3100 Report https://www.snbforums.com/threads/s...-go-with-the-rt-ac1900p-v3.34748/#post-281391

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/r...and-inner-workings.36836/page-142#post-475269

 

[coxhaus]

What about a couple of Cisco WAP581 wireless APs setup as single point setup. They will run as 1 virtual wireless system. They also will support multiple SSIs across multiple APs. This allows you to setup guest as well as LAN across the same APs.They are very easy to setup. They have a wizard for setup which makes it real easy.

This is way better networking than that consumer crap.

 

[Trip]

This is way better networking than that consumer crap.

Shots fired!

 

[L&LD]

Nothing that Asuswrt-Merlin can't handle.

 

[coxhaus]

It's just the Cisco programing is way advanced over basic consumer gear. This is why consumer networking hardware can't do advanced networking is because their programming is lacking. Yes Cisco does balance their hardware because they have a high end line. Cisco does work and if you demonstrate there is a problem and Cisco can reproduce it they will fix it. Cisco tracks all the hacks and releases timely updates for their networking hardware. The support cycle on consumer hardware is so short. I just don't see why people would buy consumer networking hardware. People put up with reboots, you can't do this because the software is broken, you can't do this basic networking function because it is not in the software just would drive me crazy. I don't how see people put up with it. Cisco does everything networking wise it just how much do you want to spend. By buying Cisco's lower end hardware you get these benefits of buying high end hardware and software.

 

[L&LD]

@coxhaus I have no doubt once running the network is better.

I also have no doubt that to get it running isn't a trivial task either.

Any 'tutorials' I've seen for Cisco equipment may as well be written in Martian. Your background integrating these for big business doesn't have relevance to beginners that can easily ko a three-step Asus setup wizard (true story from a recent customer).

The relative effort to get that better running network is hugely offset by the knowhow and new skills needed to pull it off though, for most average people.

 

[microchip]

It's just the Cisco programing is way advanced over basic consumer gear. This is why consumer networking hardware can't do advanced networking is because their programming is lacking. Yes Cisco does balance their hardware because they have a high end line. Cisco does work and if you demonstrate there is a problem and Cisco can reproduce it they will fix it. Cisco tracks all the hacks and releases timely updates for their networking hardware. The support cycle on consumer hardware is so short. I just don't see why people would buy consumer networking hardware. People put up with reboots, you can't do this because the software is broken, you can't do this basic networking function because it is not in the software just would drive me crazy. I don't how see people put up with it. Cisco does everything networking wise it just how much do you want to spend. By buying Cisco's lower end hardware you get these benefits of buying high end hardware and software.

You really think everyone can do it because you can? 98 or 99% of regular consumers go for and want one device/router that's easy to set up and do its job. Many of these people haven't even heard of Cisco because Cisco is not a consumer brand. People go to ASUS, NG, Linksys, TP-Link, etc. These brands are in every store that sells networking equipment for regular consumers and many of these people are network illiterates.