AX88 - RAM Usage - how much is normal?

[RMerlin]

Trend Micro features are full of bloat and a ram hogg Asus needs to dump Trend Micro because their stuff is alway ram heavy

And replace it with what?

The Trend Micro DPI engine is actually quite light on resources. Ask Synology users who they feel about the Siracata engine their router uses - their first model is no longer able to run it at a decent enough speed, while the Trend Micro engine still runs fine on a 5 years old RT-AC68U.

 

[Milan]

on my AX88U i have 99% mem use - 2 usb drives, samba, torrent client, trend micro apps, near all existing scripts are running there and no issue with file transfers over wifi or cable. cpu is on average 10 % when torrent is downloding, if no transfer then near 0 %. very good hw ...

 

[Val D.]

no need to go buy an SSD to run at USB 2.0 speeds.

That was tested too. You don't have to limit the port to USB 2.0 when using external USB enclosure with SSD.

while the Trend Micro engine still runs fine on a 5 years old RT-AC68U.

And this fact makes me believe something around it is not right in newer hardware routers, because it runs fine on a 256MB RAM router, but it doesn't on 512MB RAM router. If all the TrendMicro features are enabled on RT-AC86U on stock ASUS firmware, around day 10 something stops working, usually followed by unresponsive WebUI. When it is going to happen depends on how much data the router processed during this period. With simulated heavy use, about 100GB/day, it needs to be rebooted more often.

 

[miroco]

Could Maltrail be an alternative?

https://github.com/stamparm/maltrail

 

[RMerlin]

And this fact makes me believe something around it is not right in newer hardware routers, because it runs fine on a 256MB RAM router, but it doesn't on 512MB RAM router. If all the TrendMicro features are enabled on RT-AC86U on stock ASUS firmware, around day 10 something stops working, usually followed by unresponsive WebUI.

I've reached close to 15 days uptime on my router, with zero problem - and I use Adaptive QoS, Malicious Website Blocking and the IPS.

There was at least one memory leak recently fixed by Asus (and which was unrelated to Trend Micro) that could explain issues. Also, some people had an evergrowing Traffic Analyzer database that filled up the jffs partition (the 30 MB trim would sometime fail, or a separate 30 MB journal was sometimes created as well).

 

[RMerlin]

Could Maltrail be an alternative?

https://github.com/stamparm/maltrail

It needs Python, which means high memory and disk space usage (too much for a router with a low-powered CPU).

The Trend Micro engine was specifically designed for devices with limited memory and CPU usage, that's why it's so fast and efficient in resource usage.

 

[Val D.]

I've reached close to 15 days uptime on my router, with zero problem - and I use Adaptive QoS, Malicious Website Blocking and the IPS.

On the test RT-AC86U unit I have enabled all TrendMicro dependent services - AiProtection, Parental Controls, Bandwidth Monitor, App Analysis, Adaptive QoS, Web History, Traffic Analyzer Statistic. Then I setup a client PC with WiFi connection, open on it about 50 heavy content web pages and set auto refresh every 3 minutes. There are videos playing in some tabs, news reloading on others, weather information, car pages with lots of images, etc. simulated mixed traffic. This stress test the router can handle up to about 700-900GB transferred, then something starts behaving abnormally. Usually Traffic Analyzer Statistic stops recording/showing data, Web History may lock up, WebUI may stop responding, etc. If I run a Samba server and do a large transfer at the same time, that may kill the router in minutes. In my understanding, if all the options above are available in firmware, they have to be able to work together. This is not the case though. This router can't be trusted under load.

 

[dosborne]

If I run a Samba server and do a large transfer at the same time, that may kill the router in minutes. In my understanding, if all the options above are available in firmware, they have to be able to work together. This is not the case though. This router can't be trusted under load.

Welcome to the real world

Products want an edge over the competition, that how they make money. Claiming support for everything under the sun even if only 5% really supported (perfectly acceptable for "fringe" options/features IMO as I never count on using them or that they work). The big problem I have with many people is expecting a full blown NAS from a ROUTER using samba, seems a common issue although it is well documented. Very few actual products in use can support all functionality for every conceivable option in the firmware. It is up to the user to adapt, monitor and use the available resources and features.
"This router can't be trusted under load." all depends on what YOU are using it for. I download at 1gbps (950mbps speedtest) for many hours per day syncing various services and have absolutely no issues. So 100% reliable in my case.

 

[Val D.]

Welcome to the real world

Welcome to the world of marketing, I know. NitroQAM 750Mbps on 2.4GHz, 3X faster MU-MIMO and AiRadar shooting beams straight to clients are my favorite features actually. One of my clients burned out though. Got too much of a Nitro and too strong of a Beam, I guess. Got lucky MU-MIMO didn't fry another one in the same time.

So 100% reliable in my case.

In my case too. I just know what is working well on it. Just like yours, it runs as a router only. This is what it does best. But most people will expect all the options available to work well. It doesn't say in the User Manual "choose any 3 of the 10 available", for example. There is another potential issue I see - the tests I made heated up the CPU to 95C in a room with 24C air temperature. What is going to happen if I run the same test in a room with 40C air temperature? As per ASUS, the operating temperature is 0-40C.

 

[dosborne]

What is going to happen if I run the same test in a room with 40C air temperature?

The magic smoke will be released

 

[Val D.]

The magic smoke will be released

Don't know about the magic smoke, but I expect to end up with a high performance router running with Core 0 on reduced speed and Core 1 shut down. This is what the thermal protection of the SoC is doing above 100C. And this is why I have 2 x 70mm 12V ball bearing fans running on 5V on my own router (DIY setup), keeping the CPU around 50C most of the time:

 

[Frankflash]

On the test RT-AC86U unit I have enabled all TrendMicro dependent services - AiProtection, Parental Controls, Bandwidth Monitor, App Analysis, Adaptive QoS, Web History, Traffic Analyzer Statistic. Then I setup a client PC with WiFi connection, open on it about 50 heavy content web pages and set auto refresh every 3 minutes. There are videos playing in some tabs, news reloading on others, weather information, car pages with lots of images, etc. simulated mixed traffic. This stress test the router can handle up to about 700-900GB transferred, then something starts behaving abnormally. Usually Traffic Analyzer Statistic stops recording/showing data, Web History may lock up, WebUI may stop responding, etc. If I run a Samba server and do a large transfer at the same time, that may kill the router in minutes. In my understanding, if all the options above are available in firmware, they have to be able to work together. This is not the case though. This router can't be trusted under load.

On the test RT-AC86U unit I have enabled all TrendMicro dependent services - AiProtection, Parental Controls, Bandwidth Monitor, App Analysis, Adaptive QoS, Web History, Traffic Analyzer Statistic. Then I setup a client PC with WiFi connection, open on it about 50 heavy content web pages and set auto refresh every 3 minutes. There are videos playing in some tabs, news reloading on others, weather information, car pages with lots of images, etc. simulated mixed traffic. This stress test the router can handle up to about 700-900GB transferred, then something starts behaving abnormally. Usually Traffic Analyzer Statistic stops recording/showing data, Web History may lock up, WebUI may stop responding, etc. If I run a Samba server and do a large transfer at the same time, that may kill the router in minutes. In my understanding, if all the options above are available in firmware, they have to be able to work together. This is not the case though. This router can't be trusted under load.

it's called bloat

 

[Val D.]

it's called bloat

I call it too many options available for the hardware to handle in an over-complicated software package with modules from different suppliers fighting for the same limited resources. I was even thinking to play with the router further and replace the RAM chip MT41K256M16TW (512MB) with MT41K512M16HA (1GB), but looking at RT-AX88U similar behavior there is no point wasting time and money. And I don't know if RT-AC86U firmware will recognize the 1GB chip.

 

[Frankflash]

under powered with not enought ram in them

 

[RMerlin]

The RT-AC86U could definitely have benefited from more RAM, but not because of Trend Micro, but Broadcom. They reserve something like 13% or 17% (I forgot) of total memory for internal usage.

I believe this might have been tweaked in newer HND SDKs. No idea if Asus will upgrade the SDK of that model however (like they did for the RT-AX88U). I guess if they ever decide to implement WPA3 support on it, they might do it then.

 

[Bamsefar]

When I read all this, from my own well rather limited question, I end up with the quest for an even more powerfull router - however I know of no one more powerful than my current AX88 - well there is that OpnSense/pfSense route then with Unifi wireless Access Points then. But that is a such completely different ballgame, so no I tried that and I ended up with going back to Asus and RMerlin.

 

[Bamsefar]

Btw I can easily get +30 days from my AX88 if I do not use SAMBA (and have no attached USB drive more than the "swap" USB drive I currently use) or anything else (no OpenVPN, no nothing - boring I know).

 

[RAH-66]

I guess if they ever decide to implement WPA3 support on it, they might do it then.

RT-AC86/GT-AC2900 was killed by RT-AX58

 

[dosborne]

I end up with the quest for an even more powerfull router

Btw I can easily get +30 days from my AX88 if I do not use SAMBA (and have no attached USB drive more than the "swap" USB drive I currently use) or anything else (no OpenVPN, no nothing - boring I know).

So, no need for a more powerful router if you are only using the basics. Personally, I don't see the need for the swap file either and feel it just introduces yet more issues than it resolves. As soon as you plug in a USB device you risk corruption and therefore 100% CPU. Since my router typically never goes over 5% CPU and 50% RAM no point in having extra swap. USB is also a power drain (unless you use a separate power supply) and can get super hot (if USB stick is directly plugged in, without an extension). Too much risk for the gain IMO.

 

[Val D.]

RT-AC86/GT-AC2900 was killed by RT-AX58

All of them got killed by 50-in-1 router idea with functions completely unrelated to routing.

The RT-AC86U could definitely have benefited from more RAM

Yes, but it will reduce profits for the manufacturer if this router is marketed as RT-AC68U replacement and has to stay in the same price category. And this is more important than what the customers may benefit from. Turns out the price of 1GB memory chip is 3X compared to 512MB chip. I found a supplier - 1GB chip is $21, 512MB chip is $7.