D-Link DIR-825 Xtreme N Dual Band Gigabit Router: Second Time's the Charm?

[thiggins]

Try 5 Ways To Fix Slow 802.11n Speed

 

[cocomonk22]

DIR-825 802.11g keeps dropping

I'm finding the dir-825 wireless to be less stable than the di-524 which I used to use. Occasionally the signal drops for no apparent reason. This is with 802.11g, since most of the clients of this router still use g rather than n. The signal strength is -63dBm in inSSIDer and channel 11 since the neighbors' routers use 1 or 6. The 2.4 band is set on g only. Should I switch back to my old router or is there a way to improve the wireless stability and performance?

 

[thiggins]

I have seen with all draft 11n products that throughput is less stable than I saw with 802.11g products. I believe the throughput dropouts are due to the higher complexity of 802.11n.

I have been told that it is possible to stabilize throughput by using techniques such as Forward Error Correction. But this trades off throughput stability for maximum speed and it appears that manufacturers are unwilling to make this tradeoff.

You would think that by setting the router mode to 11g only that you would see stable 11g performance, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

If you are using mostly 11g clients, you are getting no benefit from associating them with a draft 11n router. If you want throughput stability, go back to using the 11g clients with the 11g router.

 

[ttran55]

I'm finding the dir-825 wireless to be less stable than the di-524 which I used to use. Occasionally the signal drops for no apparent reason.

I found exactly the same thing and I thought my Dir-825 was faulty. I had my old Rangmax 824 and the Dlink825 at location A(see Tim's test setup) and two dell laptops at location D and my old router beat the DIR-825 in term of signal strength and speed. Not only that, my Dell D620 locked up once for a while if I connected to the Dlink (825 A1 v1.21)
I have the WNDHE111 and the 5Ghz wireless N didn't give me any benefit over the g. I forgot the number but it's way below 3.0MB/s

Today I went to Fry's and get the Dir-655 rev A4 firmware 1.21. I repeated the same test as I did with the Dir-825 and the signal from the Dir-655 is much better. However my dell 620 also locked up once for a while when connecting to the Dlink. My other Dell D600 didn't have the same problem.

I also found that Gb switch wouldn't give me any advantage when connecting to the Promise NS-4300N.
Setup diagrams and the results when ftping 2.2GB video file from the NAS:

Laptop <-----Cat5e---Dlink655---------<NS4300N (1): 5.5MB/s
Desktop <----Cat5e--->Dlink655--------->NS4300N(2) 7.5MB/s
Laptop <-----Cat5e--->Rangemax824--------->NS4300N (3) 10MB/s
Desktop <----Cat5e--->RangeMax824--------->NS4300N(4) 10MB/s

I used Fastlynx utility to transfer 2.2GB video file from the desktop(powerful intel workstation) to my laptop:
Laptop <-----Cat5e--->Dlink655---------<Desktop : 2.05seconds
Laptop <----Cat5e--->Rangemax824--------->Desktop 4.55seconds.

My conclusion: No more Dlink and I may not need GB switch. I will look into the WRT400N or WRT320N.
TT.

 

[Andy S]

Anybody that's updated to the new 1.11 firmware having stability issues? I haven't done a lot of diagnosis yet, but I've had to reset a couple of times in the last few days and my wireless seems to drop out occasionally. These two things never happened before, as it was a pretty stable router.

The reason I suspect the router is that I haven't been able to log into the router when this has dropped, but it still could be other things going on I have yet to identify.

I've got a Rev. A if that matters.

 

[mikeny]

Anybody that's updated to the new 1.11 firmware having stability issues? I haven't done a lot of diagnosis yet, but I've had to reset a couple of times in the last few days and my wireless seems to drop out occasionally. These two things never happened before, as it was a pretty stable router.

The reason I suspect the router is that I haven't been able to log into the router when this has dropped, but it still could be other things going on I have yet to identify.

I've got a Rev. A if that matters.

I thought it was generally stable but I had two clients recently that started cycles of disconnecting due to unauthorization and reconnecting due authorization. After restarting those systems they seemed to stay online. In the first case, I suspected Vuze again causing issues. Yesterday though was another client and without Vuze running.

I have seen this in the logs. Have you enabled logging? If so, you could check the entries to see if whether the band got restarted, or a reboot or client disconnect thing like I witnessed.

 

[Andy S]

I thought it was generally stable but I had two clients recently that started cycles of disconnecting due to unauthorization and reconnecting due authorization. After restarting those systems they seemed to stay online. In the first case, I suspected Vuze again causing issues. Yesterday though was another client and without Vuze running.

I have seen this in the logs. Have you enabled logging? If so, you could check the entries to see if whether the band got restarted, or a reboot or client disconnect thing like I witnessed.

I don't see the bands get restarting, its more of the whole router locking up.

I didn't have any torrent clients running when the net access dropped, though.

If it keeps happening and I can't figure out what's going on, I'll post again some logs if I see weird things.

This router has been pretty stable for me for months, so hopefully this is just a weird coincidence.

 

[sxr71]

I have a DIR-655 already, which I use for both computing and media streaming. A couple of my PC's and all the media streaming devices (TiVo, AppleTV, Roku box, etc.) are connected wirelessly to the 655 through SMC 802.11n wireless bridges (at 2.4GHz). I am interested in moving the streaming media off to 5GHz and leave the general purpose computing stuff on 2.4GHz. However, one of the locations where streaming media boxes live is quite far away from where the router has to go (up 2 floors with several sheetrock walls in between). I get about 50% signal strength up there with the 655 on 2.4GHz. THe other streaming location is close, and signal strength there is typically close to 100%.

I'm trying to figure out whether to get an 825 or 855 to replace the 655, and whether to get a 1522 or a 1555 to replace the SMC boxes.

Any thoughts? I worry a lot about the newer boxes having fewer (or no) external antennas as well. Any comments on that (expecially as it relates to my situation)?

Running ethernet cable is not a viable option.

Thanks much for any insights.

Bob

My thoughts with whatever little experience I have in networking is to keep the DIR-655 (excellent box by the way) and supplant it with an inexpensive but high performing (see the wireless charts) single radio 5GHZ router. Sure you will have 2 routers and 2 networks, but I like to see them segregated. I would put all my N equipment on 5GHz and all my G equipment (phones, Xbox, squeezebox etc.) on the 2.4Ghz. No point really running N at 2.4Ghz since all the G equipment slows down N networks anyway.

 

[Unregistered]

I don't see the bands get restarting, its more of the whole router locking up.

I didn't have any torrent clients running when the net access dropped, though.

If it keeps happening and I can't figure out what's going on, I'll post again some logs if I see weird things.

This router has been pretty stable for me for months, so hopefully this is just a weird coincidence.

Your issue is probably with the "DNS relay" feature. Turn this off and it should clear it up. There seems to be some problem with this feature that got introduced in the 655 also.

If you read the dlink forum, it seems they are changing the hardware for the b2 revision. It will no longer be based on the Ubicom platform. Any chance smallnetbuilder can get dlink to ship one over for some testing?

 

[Osamede]

I would put all my N equipment on 5GHz and all my G equipment (phones, Xbox, squeezebox etc.) on the 2.4Ghz. No point really running N at 2.4Ghz since all the G equipment slows down N networks anyway.

The issue is running G and N on the same physical router. Even if it is a 2-radio router, there is reduced throughput.

But, if you have the networks running on separate routers ie
- one router with its own SSID running a G network at 2.4ghz
- and the other router with own SSID also at 2.4ghz.
then, in such a case, the traffic is separated. Short of sticking the two units right in the same spot, you wont have any problem.

 

[gyrfalcon]

But if you want to try to turn an 825 into an 855, forget it. All the components required to combine the 2.4 and 5 GHz radio outputs aren't loaded. And you'd have to scare up an additional dual-band antenna, too.

Does anyone know what Tim means by this....what components aren't loaded?

Wouldn't you only have to solder on a SMA jack and mini-coax SMT connectors? Dual-band antennas are the same as any other 802.11 antenna right?

http://media.digikey.com/photos/Hirose Elect Photos/U.FL-R-SMT(01).jpg
http://rocky.digikey.com/weblib/Amphenol Connex/Web photos/132136.jpg

 

[thiggins]

There could be other components. I don't remember.
You won't see a huge gain in performance. The third antenna is used only for receive and most clients use only two antennas. Not worth the hassle, IMO.

 

[claykin]

Tim

Dlink has released the DIR-825 B1 hardware revision. These units come with a V2.x firmware so I'm fairly confident that this means a chipset/hardware change of some sort. Any ideas? Maybe you can poke around at Dlink and get some answers from them???

**UPDATE** After searching some more it seems that the B1 is using the Atheros 9220/9223 combo with a Ubicom CPU. So, Tim, any reason for a retest??? Hint, hint. Nudge!

 

[thiggins]

**UPDATE** After searching some more it seems that the B1 is using the Atheros 9220/9223 combo with a Ubicom CPU. So, Tim, any reason for a retest??? Hint, hint. Nudge!

Nope. Still the same basic Ubicom / Atheros beast. New chipsets are probably cheaper.

 

[claykin]

Nope. Still the same basic Ubicom / Atheros beast. New chipsets are probably cheaper.

Tim

Agreed, but revisions also bring improvements. Atheros claims the 9220/9223 supports something called "weak signal detecton" that is not on the 9001 and earlier chipsets.. See here: http://www.atheros.com/pt/bulletins/AR9002AP-4XHGBulletin.pdf

You seem to like the Linksys WRT400 and from what I understand it also incorporates the same 9220/9223

 

[claykin]

Tim

I'm now reading in some forums (including DLink's) that the B1 rev is using the Atheros 7161WNPU in place of Ubicom and that it may support open source firmware. Sure would like to see an updated review.

**UPDATE** I downloaded the source from ftp.dlink.de and there is a directory \\platform\ar7161. Also some of the Readme files indicate a Linux core. Should be good for open source firmware authors...

 

[l:x]

I've bought a DIR-825 and I'm happy with it on my little appartement. A friend of mine has one too, but he has having these range problems.

Is it an option add a repeater/range extender/what-do-you-call-it? And if so... you'll probably need a dual band, right?

 

[gyrfalcon]

I've bought a DIR-825 and I'm happy with it on my little appartement. A friend of mine has one too, but he has having these range problems.

Is it an option add a repeater/range extender/what-do-you-call-it? And if so... you'll probably need a dual band, right?

Range extenders/repeaters (WDS) cut down on the wireless bandwidth you have available. They're more or less a gimmick and shouldn't be used.

The best way to extend your wireless network is to run a wired network connection to the location you don't get service, and setup another AP in bridged mode.

 

[jalyst]

This sounds very interesting, have you heard any more about this, wonder how it'll compare to the 610n v2?

Tim

I'm now reading in some forums (including DLink's) that the B1 rev is using the Atheros 7161WNPU in place of Ubicom and that it may support open source firmware. Sure would like to see an updated review.

**UPDATE** I downloaded the source from ftp.dlink.de and there is a directory \\platform\ar7161. Also some of the Readme files indicate a Linux core. Should be good for open source firmware authors...

 

[DaveMcLain]

Some versions of the DIR-825 are now supported by DD-WRT.