FlexQoS Does FlexQoS work with Full-Fibre Internet?

[BreakingDad]

Is QOS needed on a connection of that speed?

I have 1Gbps down (limited to 940Mbps due to 10/100/1000 WAN/LAN) and 50Mbps upload, also on Virgin Media in the UK same as @BreakingDad

For me yes, or I lag in games when someone else is on netflix or youtube.

 

[dave14305]

I have 1Gbps down (limited to 940Mbps due to 10/100/1000 WAN/LAN) and 50Mbps upload

It’s more relevant for the 50 Mbps upload than the gigabit download.

 

[dave14305]

My only other query really is why QoS is applying such a big and permanent throttling of my download speed. I have it set to 415 Mbps, but it's reduced my download speeds to much lower than that, as the graph below shows:-
View attachment 38232

What overhead settings did you settle on? You kept referring to ATM, but I doubt you need ATM enabled.

 

[Gary_Dexter]

It’s more relevant for the 50 Mbps upload than the gigabit download.

Makes sense if it's being saturated I suppose

 

[Gary_Dexter]

For me yes, or I lag in games when someone else is on netflix or youtube.

Interesting.

Online gaming usually has a bigger hit on upload than download

 

[TheLyppardMan]

What overhead settings did you settle on? You kept referring to ATM, but I doubt you need ATM enabled.

I set it to 18 and ATM is and always has been disabled as far as I am aware. I've had the automatic speed tests disabled today as well and I've just noticed that since about 5.00 PM, the latency has increased across all three test sites (I think that is because my son is streaming something to one of his Apple devices at the moment), with some further packet loss with the bbc web site, but not as much as yesterday.

 

[CriticJay]

Interesting.

Online gaming usually has a bigger hit on upload than download

you need to consider different cable modem/DSL devices may respond differently, based on where the saturation is occurring...

my previous cable modem (DOCSIS 3.0, tp-link TP7650) absolutely hated it when my upload was saturated and I'd get the dreaded high pings and packet loss.

whereas my current cable modem (DOCSIS 3.1, technicolor tc4400) does not complain *that* much when I saturate upload, but seems to have more of an issue when i saturate download.

my router (AC86U) was same for both connections, but my Adaptive QoS settings had to be tweaked a bit differently in each case.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

My latency seems to have improved considerably since I switched FlexQoS back on. I still have no idea why it is permanently throttling the download speeds though. Can any offer a possible reason?

 

[Gary_Dexter]

My latency seems to have improved considerably since I switched FlexQoS back on. I still have no idea why it is permanently throttling the download speeds though. Can any offer a possible reason?

You probably need to adjust the percentages in the FlezQOS settings

 

[TheLyppardMan]

You probably need to adjust the percentages in the FlezQOS settings

I think they are still on the default settings, so I'd need some specific advice before attempting to change anything.

 

[businessmonkey09]

I wanted to ask if anyone had tips on a streaming/gaming focus setup. I stream all my tv (no aerial), and also play Stadia (but not together). I also work from home and live in a house with just two people.

I have setup the Bandwidth Monitor with priorities, then set QoS to 90% of my connection (96/8), and chose to customise the usage to :

Gaming
WFH
Surfing
Video & Streaming
Others
File Transfer
Learn from Home

I have also set WAN packet overhead to 18 as I am on a virgin fibre connection (not sure if this is correct)

Do you see any other areas of improvement to the setup?

 

[BikeHelmet]

you need to consider different cable modem/DSL devices may respond differently, based on where the saturation is occurring...

my previous cable modem (DOCSIS 3.0, tp-link TP7650) absolutely hated it when my upload was saturated and I'd get the dreaded high pings and packet loss.

whereas my current cable modem (DOCSIS 3.1, technicolor tc4400) does not complain *that* much when I saturate upload, but seems to have more of an issue when i saturate download.

my router (AC86U) was same for both connections, but my Adaptive QoS settings had to be tweaked a bit differently in each case.

This was my experience as well, for what it's worth. On my TC4400 I was able to get much closer to my maximum theoretical upload (95% of it) without enduring any ping spikes. In the past with QOS I have not had such luck. On my VDSL2 setup (RT-AX56U + T3200M) I require a larger % buffer. With the TC4400 I have QOS at 15.2mbit on a 16mbit theoretical (15mbit officially) connection. Ping is very consistent. It's hard to saturate my 180mbit coming in to test that, but I can confirm that my TC4400 is very capable on the upstream channels. Feels like it has a lot more oomph to give.

 

[BikeHelmet]

I have setup the Bandwidth Monitor with priorities, then set QoS to 90% of my connection (96/8), and chose to customise the usage to :

Turn that off. Last I heard, it conflicted with QOS / FlexQOS. Pick one or the other. You can safely use the Traffic Monitor and Statistic sections, but Bandwidth Monitor should be turned off to my knowledge.

As long as Net Control is above your below list, the ordering seems fine. I moved video streaming lower myself and gave it a guaranteed 40% incoming (enough for a bunch of 4K streams), but kept it low enough in the list to stop a burst of video-buffering traffic when starting playback from messing with Others or File Transfers. I also figured that I wanted the higher up categories to steal as much as they need, down to 40%, so as to not ever disrupt entertainment, or other people will get grumpy. But I also don't want the stuff in Others lagging out whenever a new stream starts. That'll get annoying every 2, 5, 15, 25 minutes, etc.

Learn from Home is in the proper spot.

Gaming
WFH
Surfing
Video & Streaming
Others
File Transfer
Learn from Home

I have also set WAN packet overhead to 18 as I am on a virgin fibre connection (not sure if this is correct)

Do you see any other areas of improvement to the setup?

I think for Fiber, unless you have a weird NAT'd setup or have VLANs going beyond your network, wouldn't packet overhead be zero? Try 0. For my VDSL2 it's zero, because (if I remember right) the overhead is built into the transport frame overhead or... something something. I took notes, I swear, but the conclusion after 4 hours of rabbit hole research was 0 was the correct number for Telus+T3200M+RT-AX56U - I just can't remember the precise reasoning right now.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

Is QOS needed on a connection of that speed?

I have 1Gbps down (limited to 940Mbps due to 10/100/1000 WAN/LAN) and 50Mbps upload, also on Virgin Media in the UK same as @BreakingDad

Well, that's another thing I have been wondering, so now I have two questions; the one you have mentioned and my question above about why FlexQoS has such an impact on download speeds?

 

[Subkulture]

I use it on 500/30 virgin. I think it's amazing. Almost never get a lag spike anywhere.

fq_codel on
wan packet overhead 18 Atm unticked

In this priotity order:

Class Net Control Packets Gaming Work-From-Home Web Surfing Others (Default) Video and Audio Streaming File Transferring Learn-From-Home

With Bandidth set to:

​

Upload Bandwidth	33Mb/s
Download Bandwidth	450Mb/s

About a year ago or so I did personal tests and internet research for WAN packet overhead and found it made my connection slower than having it set to zero, I’m pretty sure it was an old forum post on here explained why you didn’t need WAN packet overhead for Virgin Media which I am also a customer of. Though found adjusting MTU made latency and network throughput better

 

[BreakingDad]

About a year ago or so I did personal tests and internet research for WAN packet overhead and found it made my connection slower than having it set to zero, I’m pretty sure it was an old forum post on here explained why you didn’t need WAN packet overhead for Virgin Media which I am also a customer of. Though found adjusting MTU made latency and network throughput better

Wan packet overhead was recommended to me by flex author @dave14305

 

[BikeHelmet]

About a year ago or so I did personal tests and internet research for WAN packet overhead and found it made my connection slower than having it set to zero, I’m pretty sure it was an old forum post on here explained why you didn’t need WAN packet overhead for Virgin Media which I am also a customer of. Though found adjusting MTU made latency and network throughput better

For my non-PPPoE VDSL2, I discovered the same after diving down the rabbit hole. The link between the modem and the DSLAM has overhead, but you don't know what it is, and they bump your line sync rate up accordingly - so just set it to zero and send the packets and let it figure it out. (At least for that connection type.) That makes the QOS setup process relatively simple!

 

[ERamseth2]

FWIW I have gigabit connection fiber to the home and use FlexQoS.

I forget exactly which combinations of things did it, but I was able to cause huge lag spikes during speed tests. Adaptive QoS helped and FlexQoS is just an extension of that.

I actually use the ASUS QoS mode (specifically not fq_codel). It just worked better in some regard after some testing.

I set my bandwidth limit to 850/850 (line speed is probably 940/940, but I don't recall). Everything has been running great.

I have just a ton of devices people are streaming on (tablets, TVs, etc ... several at 4k), office pc, gaming desktop, small hobbyist server, several personal laptops, bunch of phones, bunch of IoT devices, and some gaming consoles.

I haven't had any problems gaming in any conditions, which is the key driver for me. With my limited gaming time, any disruption is really infuriating. Never ever want to sit down in the evening after everyone's in bed and have to troubleshoot my latency instead of actually playing a game.

@TheLyppardMan Adaptive QoS (and thus FlexQoS) have bandwidth limiting as a feature, not a bug. Make sure you set your bandwidth limits appropriately (especially with the relatively much slower upload) and make sure the net control packets have highest priority. Also, (and this is something someone else with an AX88U would need to chime in on) if your router doesn't have the horsepower to do Adaptive QoS / FlexQoS at gigabit speeds, then that would also cause a slow down. I have the AX86U and it can handle gigabit routing with Adaptive/FlexQoS, but it has a different chip than the AX88U (and with Asus's naming scheme, you can't always be sure higher numbers are better).

 

[BikeHelmet]

@TheLyppardMan Adaptive QoS (and thus FlexQoS) have bandwidth limiting as a feature, not a bug. Make sure you set your bandwidth limits appropriately (especially with the relatively much slower upload) and make sure the net control packets have highest priority. Also, (and this is something someone else with an AX88U would need to chime in on) if your router doesn't have the horsepower to do Adaptive QoS / FlexQoS at gigabit speeds, then that would also cause a slow down. I have the AX86U and it can handle gigabit routing with Adaptive/FlexQoS, but it has a different chip than the AX88U (and with Asus's naming scheme, you can't always be sure higher numbers are better).

A good place to start is the ASUS Router list at Wikipedia:

List of Asus routers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of Asus routers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Start by looking for a Wireless AC or AX router with quite a bit of RAM - at least 256MB, probably 512MB or even 1GB these days.

Then check out the CPU column. That column is more obtuse. A 1.5ghz quad-core doesn't necessarily beat a 1.4ghz dual-core. You need to look up the architecture to find out for sure. ARM cores are not all created equal - one core might power a watch or fitbit, another a DVD player, another a router, another a high end router, and a final one a MacBook Air. Performance is wildly different, so no shortcuts - this requires some research.

A good example is the BCM4906 which includes AES Acceleration. It makes it a very qualified processor for dealing with VPNs, QOS, Encrypted connections - despite having two cores. It is most definitely faster than the quad-core BCM6755. The quad-core BCM4908 though really kicks it up a notch.

Then the final part of it is to figure out what WiFi and ethernet you want. Wireless AC or AX? 4 wired ports, or 8? 2-8 antennas? Priority on 2.4ghz, or 5.0ghz? There's a lot of detail in the AX section, including how many antennas are allocated to each frequency.

And then finally, make sure the Merlin Support column says "Yes". After that you've drilled down to a good router - the second to last part is finding a good price and buying it. And the final part is modding it.